US declares Jerusalem Capital of Israel -- what will happen next?

[pat34lee]

The Palestinians, which includes Christians, have been living on those lands for thousands of years. Would you want someone coming to your home and kicking you off?

How many living there are thousands of years old?
None. Most are migrants and squatters, and need
to be kicked out. I say give them the choice: become
Israeli citizens or get out of the country.

 

[pat34lee]

This may be like telling me I have a "homeland" I can go back to - Scotland. Really though, I have no affiliation with Scotland other than some distant relatives some time ago.

This is a poor comparison. Now, if your father had come
from Scotland, and you lived in a Scottish-only community
where they all still attended the same churches and spoke
Scots or Gaelic at home it might be closer.

Plus, you are not a terrorist in your adopted country and
don't support terrorist attacks against it, and you are not
trying to take over the country and kick the owners out.

Does similar ancestry matter? Not if they're trying to kill you.

 

[Yarddog]

How many living there are thousands of years old?
None. Most are migrants and squatters, and need
to be kicked out. I say give them the choice: become
Israeli citizens or get out of the country.

Well, all of that can be said about the Israelis far more than the Palestinians. The only reason they are there now is because of the UN.

 

[pat34lee]

Well, all of that can be said about the Israelis far more than the Palestinians. The only reason they are there now is because of the UN.

Actual history:
Partition of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia

League of Nations mandate - Wikipedia

British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument) - Wikipedia

Or watch this:

 

[FRM48]

I don't care about any divine promises except the promises of Christ.

The state of Israel was established in 1948 with borders widely recognized by civilized nations- borders that did not include Jerusalem. The ancient nation of Judea was destroyed by the Romans. I do not see how it serves the cause of peace and justice to throw religious speculation into the mix, in a pluralistic world, if anything it is dangerous to do so.

You should start by reading all the biblical prophecies of Jerusalem,what God says is the law of the land not what the nations of this world recognize.

 

[FireDragon76]

You should start by reading all the biblical prophecies of Jerusalem,what God says is the law of the land not what the nations of this world recognize.

Sorry, on earth that is not how the rule of law works.

 

[pat34lee]

Sorry, on earth that is not how the rule of law works.

Then go back and see how the League of Nations mandates
were supposed to work. Nobody has a claim to Israel except
the Jews. Their only mistake was that they didn't immediately
expel all Arabs from the country, like so many Arab countries
did with their Jewish population at that same time.

As for Jerusalem:
Would you buy a house if there was a clause in the title that
said you can't use the bathrooms inside the house? Who is
anyone to tell Israel what is theirs within their own borders?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Who is
anyone to tell Israel what is theirs within their own borders?

I don't know that being a nation state would give the state some sort of right to do whatever it wants within it's own borders.

In any case, nation-states don't have rights - people have rights.

 

[pat34lee]

I don't know that being a nation state would give the state some sort of right to do whatever it wants within it's own borders.

In any case, nation-states don't have rights - people have rights.

So you would have no problem with the UN coming
up with a resolution to move our capital to NYC? Or
that we have to give Manhattan back to the Indians
along with half of our national parks?

Why didn't we let Saddam keep Kuwait?

 

[Yekcidmij]

So you would have no problem with the UN coming
up with a resolution to move our capital to NYC? Or
that we have to give Manhattan back to the Indians
along with half of our national parks?

Not sure I see the relevance of the questions.

Why didn't we let Saddam keep Kuwait?

Because the administration determined it wasn't in the US' best interest to do so. Again though, not sure why this is relevant.

 

[FRM48]

I don't know that being a nation state would give the state some sort of right to do whatever it wants within it's own borders.

In any case, nation-states don't have rights - people have rights.

It's called national sovereignty for a reason.

 

[Yekcidmij]

It's called national sovereignty for a reason.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Are you saying that states can do whatever they want within their own borders? That seems obviously false. I think one of the easiest examples would be genocide/mass murder. It's not a state's right to do such a thing. So we know fairly easily that nation states can't necessarily "do whatever they want" in the name of national sovereignty and that thing be acceptable or OK. The simple reason is that state's don't have rights - people do.

 

[FRM48]

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Are you saying that states can do whatever they want within their own borders? That seems obviously false. I think one of the easiest examples would be genocide/mass murder. It's not a state's right to do such a thing. So we know fairly easily that nation states can't necessarily "do whatever they want" in the name of national sovereignty and that thing be acceptable or OK. The simple reason is that state's don't have rights - people do.

We were talking about deciding their own affairs inside their borders,not mass murder

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Are you saying that states can do whatever they want within their own borders? That seems obviously false. I think one of the easiest examples would be genocide/mass murder. It's not a state's right to do such a thing. So we know fairly easily that nation states can't necessarily "do whatever they want" in the name of national sovereignty and that thing be acceptable or OK. The simple reason is that state's don't have rights - people do.

We weren't talking about mass murder or genocide we were talking being able to decide your own affairs inside your borders.

 

[Yekcidmij]

We were talking about deciding their own affairs inside their borders,not mass murder

We weren't talking about mass murder or genocide we were talking being able to decide your own affairs inside your borders.

Right, and we seem to agree on at least one example of an occasion where you can't "decide your own affairs inside your own borders." So that would seem to defeat the idea that a state can do whatever it wants within it's own borders in the name of national sovereignty.

 

[FRM48]

Right, and we seem to agree on at least one example of an occasion where you can't "decide your own affairs inside your own borders." So that would seem to defeat the idea that a state can do whatever it wants within it's own borders in the name of national sovereignty.

I think our definition of affairs is different,to clarify this from my side of this discussion when I refer to Affairs I am talking about deciding your course of action as to protecting your people from terrorism and aggression from other nations,rioting,looting and other forms of destructive behavior or in other words common defense issues.Also Legitimate government functions such as enforcing negotiated agreements between parties,civil policing and border security and other civil administration functions.Last but not least is the subject of this thread which is deciding where its capital is.

 

[FRM48]

Sorry, on earth that is not how the rule of law works.

It does when you are talking about God and His prophecies,God supersedes man's authority upon the earth.For you to say otherwise doesn't make my statement any less the truth that it is.God's prophecy will be fulfilled concerning Jerusalem because He cannot lie,how can you think that earthly law can dictate the outcome of Jerusalem's status when the one true God who spoke this universe into existence says otherwise.

 

[pat34lee]

Right, and we seem to agree on at least one example of an occasion where you can't "decide your own affairs inside your own borders." So that would seem to defeat the idea that a state can do whatever it wants within it's own borders in the name of national sovereignty.

Except even mass murder of citizens by their country
has happened before and likely is happening still.
DEATH BY GOVERNMENT: GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER

 

[Yekcidmij]

Except even mass murder of citizens by their country
has happened before and likely is happening still.
DEATH BY GOVERNMENT: GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER

Does this mean you think that a nation-state has a right to commit genocide and mass murder within it's own borders? I won't try to argue against you if you do since I'm pretty sure I would have just won the argument in the eyes of any rational person.

 

[Yarddog]

Palestinian Christian leaders denounce Trump's decision

Palestinian Christian leaders have rejected US President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, calling it "dangerous" and "insulting".

The US move is offensive to "Christians and Muslims around the world who consider Jerusalem as an incubator of their most sacred, spiritual and national heritage", Atallah Hanna, the archbishop of Jerusalem's Greek Orthodox church, said in a statement on Saturday.

"We, Palestinians, Christians and Muslims reject the US recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel," he added.

"The US gave the occupation what it does not deserve."

 

[pat34lee]

Does this mean you think that a nation-state has a right to commit genocide and mass murder within it's own borders? I won't try to argue against you if you do since I'm pretty sure I would have just won the argument in the eyes of any rational person.

No, I'm just saying it happens, and what does the UN worry about?
Israel's so-called apartheid state.