US declares Jerusalem Capital of Israel -- what will happen next?

[Open Heart]

I agree and would add, have you seen what's happening in Saudi Arabia lately? This is also like asking the question what will happen next? In my view the two are related to an extent, they both are about how world history changes at a snail's pace. The initial move to build an embassy there had been started in 1995. Trump waives law requiring US to move embassy to Jerusalem


When definitive changing points do occur, when intentions turn to concrete action they are comparable to when a nation draws a line in the sand. That too happened when the absolute monarchy of Saudi Arabia imprisoned many of it's own royal family. In the foreseeable future, whose side are they on?

The way I see it people didn't pay any substantial attention to what Defense Secretary James Mattis said during his confirmation hearings prior to acquiring that position. That the USA had friends in the middle east that were committed to modernizing and creating a more moderate form of Islam. That such things don't happen overnight either.

This is how history progresses, the foundations for their turning points were always there. What is also still there is the behavior of those opposed to these turning points and when looking back on that track record, the big thing that changes is they'll have a new reason to continue the same behavior they've been demonstrating since 1948. I believe they're not in a position to declare any war other than the one they are already pursuing at this moment. They had their 1948 and 1967, until other major changes take place in the whole world, all we'll see is more of the same.

I have to admit I didn't see this change coming from the Saudis. I saw the Saudis as playing a role in 9/11, and that was that.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Sorry but you did not read Daniel 12:1; Daniel 12:8-9

More like: I didn't read it and conclude what you think I should.

 

[he-man]

More like: I didn't read it and conclude what you think I should.

If you had you would know that Edom, Moab, and Ammon will be spared and that has not yet happened. Those countries are part of the ancient Empire of David and Solomon! The attack will come from the Western Ruler of the United States, the "little horn" arising out of the Roman Empire; Daniel 7:8 certainly not Hitler.

 

[Yekcidmij]

If you had you would know that Edom, Moab, and Ammon will be spared and that has not yet happened.

Guess we'll have to wait for Edom, Moab and Ammon to come back into existence since I don't see them around. Seems that even on your view modern events of the past few days probably have nothing to do with bible prophecy since the nations you just mentioned don't even exist. Of course, now all of the sudden the text won't be "literal" but talking very generally about some amorphous region of indistinguishable people.

Daniel 11 is clearly talking about Alexander the Great. Daniel first addresses "Darius the Mede", probably a metonymy for Cyrus, and the 3 kings that would follow him (Cambyses, Smerdis, and Darius I). Vs. 2 talks about the 3rd king invading Greece, which is exactly what Darius I did. The "powerful king" that would arise was Alexander the Great and after his death and short reign, his kingdom was divided into 4 powers (Ptolemaic Egypt, Seleucid Mesopotamia and Central Asia, Attalid Anatolia, and Antigonid Macedon)....I feel like this is something you just "have not read." The king of the South in vs 5 is Ptolemy I Soter. The daughter in vs 6 is Berenice, who was given in marriage to Antiochus II Theos....

I can go on with the chapter if you still have trouble.

 

[Yarddog]

No reason to do this? How about that Jerusalem has been Israel's Capital for decades.

And? Everyone involved in this have known that making the move would damage peace talks and could lead to violence. That is why Congress put a safety valve in place which each President has had to sign every six months which set aside this action.

Moving the Embassy changes nothing between the US and Israel but it does between Palestinians and other Arabs.

Any deaths which may occur are needless and are on Trump's hands.

 

[Open Heart]

And? Everyone involved in this have known that making the move would damage peace talks and could lead to violence.

The peace talks couldn't be more damaged than they already are (neither side wants a two state solution).

A good hard look at reality for the Palestinians is worth the threat of violence. And heck, Israel lives with violence all the time. What else is new. I would be just another excuse for the same old thing.

If Gaza attacks so that there is another war, it will be the last war. They will not survive another round. Israel will destroy Hamas completely and give Gaza over to the PA.

 

[he-man]

Guess we'll have to wait for Edom, Moab and Ammon to come back into existence since I don't see them around. Seems that even on your view modern events of the past few days probably have nothing to do with bible prophecy since the nations you just mentioned don't even exist.

Sorry, wrong again. At a 1982 National Religious Broadcastes convention, Presiden Reaaan said Armageddon would usher in the Second coming of Christ. Haswell speculates that this perspective may be what led Reagan to spend about two trillion dollars for military defense.The President was clear about whom he saw as the key player in thisgreat End Time threat to the world.On Oct. 11 1983, Reagan spoke to the National AAssociatiom of Evangelicals, where he used Scofield's term, "Evil Empire" to describe the Soviet Union, a term reached far beyond Cold war rhetoric,, reflecting his conviction that the Russian confederation was to play the major role in Ezekiel's apocalypic war, a final world holocaust that could come tp pass shortly. Reagans view was not limited , he believed, for xample,that the Arab nations of the Middle East would participate in the end times invasion of Israel.On this basis he correctly predicted the fall of Ethiopia into the orbit of Communism. Moreover the same prophecy shaped his relations with Lybia, a nation in Ezekiel 38:5, under the name of "PUT" allied with Rosh against Israel. And we all know what happened to Libyan Presiden Ghadafi not to long ago.. Egyptian author, Ayyub says at this time this evil man will destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque, now claimed as Islam's third most holy site predicted and mirrored in the Arab world. Paras (Persia), is part of Iran and Cush, Northern part, and Muslin Sudan from the south. and Iran.

 

[Yekcidmij]

At a 1982 National Religious Broadcastes convention, Presiden Reaaan said Armageddon would usher in the Second coming of Christ.

Not sure why Regan's opinion is relevant, but ok.

Haswell speculates that this perspective may be what led Reagan to spend about two trillion dollars for military defense.

I don't know that it's best to use a source whose operative term is "speculates." To which I should reply: of course it's speculation because there's no evidence.

The President was clear about whom he saw as the key player in thisgreat End Time threat to the world.On Oct. 11 1983, Reagan spoke to the National AAssociatiom of Evangelicals, where he used Scofield's term, "Evil Empire" to describe the Soviet Union, a term reached far beyond Cold war rhetoric,, reflecting his conviction that the Russian confederation was to play the major role in Ezekiel's apocalypic war, a final world holocaust that could come tp pass shortly. Reagans view was not limited , he believed, for xample,that the Arab nations of the Middle East would participate in the end times invasion of Israel.On this basis he correctly predicted the fall of Ethiopia into the orbit of Communism. Moreover the same prophecy shaped his relations with Lybia, a nation in Ezekiel 38:5, under the name of "PUT" allied with Rosh against Israel. And we all know what happened to Libyan Presiden Ghadafi not to long ago.. Egyptian author, Ayyub says at this time this evil man will destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque, now claimed as Islam's third most holy site predicted and mirrored in the Arab world. Paras (Persia), is part of Iran and Cush, Northern part, and Muslin Sudan from the south. and Iran.

What does any of this have to do with Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital and Daniel 11?

 

[he-man]

Not sure why Regan's opinion is relevant, but ok.
I don't know that it's best to use a source whose operative term is "speculates." To which I should reply: of course it's speculation because there's no evidence.
What does any of this have to do with Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital and Daniel 11?

You said:

Guess we'll have to wait for Edom, Moab and Ammon to come back into existence since I don't see them around. Seems that even on your view modern events of the past few days probably have nothing to do with bible prophecy since the nations you just mentioned don't even exist. Of course, now all of the sudden the text won't be "literal" but talking very generally about some amorphous region of indistinguishable people.

The only trouble is that those nations do still exist: Paras =Persia, which is now Iran. Lybia = PUT; Cush =Northern Iran; Muslin Sudan = Southern Iran. The Neo-Assyrian Empire ca. 745 - 621 BCE stretched over what is now Northern Iraq. So wy do you ignore what I posted?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Paras =Persia, which is now Iran.

Persia is Iran only in the sense that both somewhat cover the same region. Other than regional territorial overlap, they really aren't the same. Should we start going over the differences and why the two aren't identical? You're basically trying to equate modern nation states with ancient kingdoms based only on territorial similarities. Why?

The same for the rest of these:

Lybia = PUT; Cush =Northern Iran; Muslin Sudan = Southern Iran. The Neo-Assyrian Empire ca. 745 - 621 BCE stretched over what is now Northern Iraq.

Rather unimportantly, "Cush" covered a region in the Sudan and/or parts of what is now Saudi Arabia, not Northern Iran.

 

[he-man]

Persia is Iran only in the sense that both somewhat cover the same region. Other than regional territorial overlap, they really aren't the same. Should we start going over the differences and why the two aren't identical? You're basically trying to equate modern nation states with ancient kingdoms based only on territorial similarities. Why?
The same for the rest of these:
Rather unimportantly, "Cush" covered a region in the Sudan and/or parts of what is now Saudi Arabia, not Northern Iran.

I guess you are not Historian. The nations of Paras, Cush, and Put are well documented. (Simon's, Geographical and Topographical Texts of the Old Testament [Leiden: EJ Brill, 1958] ad loc.
Today the nations occupying the prophecies are Paras, Cush, and Put, are respectively, Iran, Sudan, and Lybia- precisely the nations that commentators insisted could not be associated. In the 1980's after the Islamic/socialist revelotion in Lybia (Put), Iran
(Paras), and Sudan (the Biblical Cush- and the rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism that swept over all the Middle East is not at all problematic. Iran (Paras/Persia) underwent a revolution and at the end of 1970 against the West- whom the Aabs call "the Crusaders" - and against Israel. Lybia (Put) followed the same Islamic agenda. The Islamic government of (northern) Sudan (Cush), are all committed to one goal- annihilition of Israel. Psalms 83:1-8. That Paras is Persia is clear for in both ancient and modern Hebrew Paras is the name of Iran/Persia.. That alone should put a stop to the argument, Edom, Moab and Ammon are now Jordan.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I guess you are not Historian. The nations of Paras, Cush, and Put are well documented. (Simon's, Geographical and Topographical Texts of the Old Testament [Leiden: EJ Brill, 1958] ad loc.
Today the nations occupying the prophecies are Paras, Cush, and Put, are respectively, Iran, Sudan, and Lybia-

Your previous post said, "Cush=Northern Iran." I pointed out that was incorrect, and your source agrees with me that it was in modern Sudan. So I'm not sure who's unfamiliar with history and geography, but it appears it might be you.

In the 1980's after the Islamic/socialist revelotion in Lybia (Put),

You mean the nation state of "Libya" since there is no "Put" in existence. It's like saying modern day Scotland is identical to Picti. Sure, there's some ancestry there for some of it's citizens, but it's not a direct un-mingled line and sure, there is is some geographical overlap, but it's really impossible to say they are one and the same since the similarities fade out there.

That alone should put a stop to the argument, Edom, Moab and Ammon are now Jordan.

So my argument is that the modern state of Jordan is not identical to Edom+Moab+Ammon. Other than some geographical overlap, the similarities are few. Here are a few pretty major differences: different religion, different government, different culture. I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point, which is weird since my previous comments are available on your screen.

 

[he-man]

Your previous post said, "Cush=Northern Iran." I pointed out that was incorrect, and your source agrees with me that it was in modern Sudan. So I'm not sure who's unfamiliar with history and geography, but it appears it might be you
You mean the nation state of "Libya" since there is no "Put" in existence. It's like saying modern day Scotland is identical to Picti. Sure, there's some ancestry there for some of it's citizens, but it's not a direct un-mingled line and sure, there is is some geographical overlap, but it's really impossible to say they are one and the same since the similarities fade out there.
So my argument is that the modern state of Jordan is not identical to Edom+Moab+Ammon. Other than some geographical overlap, the similarities are few. Here are a few pretty major differences: different religion, different government, different culture. I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point, which is weird since my previous comments are available on your screen.

Huh? Surely you joke?

 

[jgarden]

From the day he announced that he was running for President, "The Donald" has done everything in his power to antagonize the Muslim world, while promoting fear in America.

From a cynical perspective, Trump is doing everything in his power to incite yet another major "terrorist" incident, like 9/11, that would force the nation to put aside its differences and unite behind the President in a spirit of patriotism and solidarity!

During this time of crisis, the Mueller Investigation would be terminated and Trump would go down in history as the President who lead the "crusade" to save America from the Muslim "infidel!"

 

[he-man]

From the day he announced that he was running for President, "The Donald" has done everything in his power to antagonize the Muslim world, while promoting fear in America.
From a cynical perspective, Trump is doing everything in his power to incite yet another major "terrorist" incident, like 9/11, that would force the nation to put aside its differences and unite behind the President in a spirit of patriotism and solidarity!
During this time of crisis, the Mueller Investigation would be terminated and Trump would go down in history as the President who lead the "crusade" to save America from the Muslim "infidel!"

I thought you said no Put

 

[Tallguy88]

And? Everyone involved in this have known that making the move would damage peace talks and could lead to violence. That is why Congress put a safety valve in place which each President has had to sign every six months which set aside this action.

Moving the Embassy changes nothing between the US and Israel but it does between Palestinians and other Arabs.

Any deaths which may occur are needless and are on Trump's hands.

I guess Muslim terrorists aren't responsible for their own actions? It's our fault if they go nuts and kill a bunch of people just because we moved a government building?

 

[Yarddog]

I guess Muslim terrorists aren't responsible for their own actions? It's our fault if they go nuts and kill a bunch of people just because we moved a government building?

You are Christian aren't you? It is not how another one acts, it is how WE act or respond as children of God. There is no excuse in doing something which will cause harm to another when we know before hand of the circumstances.

 

[A71]

No idea. Jesus said to watch.
But if California is split in half by an earthquake, will people say that this is God's punishment for supporting Israel?

 

[Open Heart]

No idea. Jesus said to watch.
But if California is split in half by an earthquake, will people say that this is God's punishment for supporting Israel?

There will be those that say it, but it won't make it so. It will still be the result of tectonic plates shifting.

 

[pat34lee]

No idea. Jesus said to watch.
But if California is split in half by an earthquake, will people say that this is God's punishment for supporting Israel?

No, it will be for things like this:
Palm Springs elects an all-LGBTQ City Council, showing the power of gay politics