UOC-MP is seeking relations with OCU

Phronema

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I didn't see this posted anywhere here at TAW, but if it is please let me know.

"The Council of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (hereinafter - the Council), which took place on May 27, 2022 in Kyiv, considered issues of church life that arose as a result of the military aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine. Based on the results of the work, the Council approved the following:
The Council condemns war as a violation of God's commandment "Thou shalt not kill!" (Exodus 20:13) and expresses condolences to all those who suffered in the war.

The Council appeals to the authorities of Ukraine and the authorities of the Russian Federation to continue the negotiation process and search for a strong and sensible word that could stop the bloodshed.
We disagree with the position of Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia on the war in Ukraine.

The Council adopted appropriate amendments to the Statute on the Administration of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which testify to the full independence and autonomy of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

During the period of martial law, when the relations between the dioceses and the ecclesiastical center are complicated or absent, the Council considers it expedient to give eparchial bishops the right to decide on certain issues of eparchial life within the competence of the Holy Synod or the Primate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, further, while restoring opportunities, informing the clergy."

Link : https://news.church.ua/2022/05/27/p...ravoslavnoji-cerkvi-vid-27-travnya-2022-roku/

Lord have mercy!
 

Platina

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Well, the UOC has always been open to the possibility of dialogue, but has always said the OCU must stop seizing churches and stuff like that, which the OCU has proven unwilling to do.
 
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archer75

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Yeah, I haven't seen it posted elsewhere.

Please remember these clergymen in your prayers. I for one think that I do not know of an instance in the history of the Church when clergymen found themselves in just such a position.
 
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E.C.

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Lord have mercy.


An already complicated mess has become more complicated and messier. I'm sympathetic to the idea of an autocephalous Church in Ukraine based in Kiev, but the way the schismatics have done things since the end of Communism isn't the way to do them. That and if this were to happen it has to be true autocephaly.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Lord have mercy.


An already complicated mess has become more complicated and messier. I'm sympathetic to the idea of an autocephalous Church in Ukraine based in Kiev, but the way the schismatics have done things since the end of Communism isn't the way to do them. That and if this were to happen it has to be true autocephaly.

agreed on all fronts
 
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archer75

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Lord have mercy.


An already complicated mess has become more complicated and messier. I'm sympathetic to the idea of an autocephalous Church in Ukraine based in Kiev, but the way the schismatics have done things since the end of Communism isn't the way to do them. That and if this were to happen it has to be true autocephaly.
Well, when your patriarch outright refuses to say that bombing, raping, and murdering your flock is wrong, really makes it hard on the clergy.
 
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E.C.

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Well, when your patriarch outright refuses to say that bombing, raping, and murdering your flock is wrong, really makes it hard on the clergy.
I typically attend OCA or Antiochian parishes, so Vladimir Mikhailovich Gundyayev is far from being my patriarch ;)
 
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E.C.

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I don't see how this has to do with autocephaly. According to agreements with the Russian Church, there is Independence within the Ukrainian Church.
I think this has a lot to do with geopolitics.

The UOC has freedom within their autonomy that is near equal to autocephaly all but in name - certainly more than Bartholomew's OCU's so-called "autocephaly". But, legally speaking, the Ukrainian government see's the UOC as an agent of Moscow despite the fact that the Russian military is bombing UOC churches just as much as OCU "churches", but I digress. I think that Metropolitan Onuphry defines the expression "between a rock and a hard place" and is trying to distance his flock from Moscow, for legal and political reasons, while still being canonically Orthodox. Vladimir Gundyayev's statements make things more difficult for Metropolitan Onuphry.
 
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Not David

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I think this has a lot to do with geopolitics.

The UOC has freedom within their autonomy that is near equal to autocephaly all but in name - certainly more than Bartholomew's OCU's so-called "autocephaly". But, legally speaking, the Ukrainian government see's the UOC as an agent of Moscow despite the fact that the Russian military is bombing UOC churches just as much as OCU "churches", but I digress. I think that Metropolitan Onuphry defines the expression "between a rock and a hard place" and is trying to distance his flock from Moscow, for legal and political reasons, while still being canonically Orthodox. Vladimir Gundyayev's statements make things more difficult for Metropolitan Onuphry.
He has condemned the war yet he is attacked by the schismatics and vandals in Ukraine. Hope the best for Metropolitan Onuphry.
 
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rusmeister

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I am really not happy with the Russian Patriarch. It’s been quite a fall from the initial hopefulness at his election. But I am not OK with open disrespect to Orthodox hierarchs. I think AB Elpidophorous is horrible, but I think I should still acknowledge that he is an archbishop, and use the minimum honorifics, if only “AB” or “Met” or “Pat” before his name in the Church.
 
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ArmyMatt

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But I am not OK with open disrespect to Orthodox hierarchs.

agreed. St Cyril was respectful to Nestorius. it was only after Nestorius’ condemnation that he was spoken of harshly.
 
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E.C.

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When he goes back to acting like a proper Patriarch instead of a Russian chauvinist and phlytist, then I will address him as a patriarch again. Patriarch Pavle, for all of his faults during the breakup of Yugoslavia, at least had the moral backbone to eventually not only condemn the Milosevic regime, but also lead a bulldozer into one of his tv stations.

St John Chrysostom died in exile for doing what Gundyayev fails to do: calling out an Orthodox secular leader who has become a madman. Day one of the invasion we have Metropolitan Onuphry calling for peace, the EP calling for peace, Metropolitan Tikhon calling for peace along with every other primate in the world EXCEPT for Gundyayev saying "boy I sure hope we win and keep the casualties down" as he goes on and blesses the very missiles hitting churches that are under his own omniphorion.
 
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archer75

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When he goes back to acting like a proper Patriarch instead of a Russian chauvinist and phlytist, then I will address him as a patriarch again. Patriarch Pavle, for all of his faults during the breakup of Yugoslavia, at least had the moral backbone to eventually not only condemn the Milosevic regime, but also lead a bulldozer into one of his tv stations.

St John Chrysostom died in exile for doing what Gundyayev fails to do: calling out an Orthodox secular leader who has become a madman. Day one of the invasion we have Metropolitan Onuphry calling for peace, the EP calling for peace, Metropolitan Tikhon calling for peace along with every other primate in the world EXCEPT for Gundyayev saying "boy I sure hope we win and keep the casualties down" as he goes on and blesses the very missiles hitting churches that are under his own omniphorion.
It is true that Patriarch Kirill is in the personal service of an unrepentant murderer and madman who claims to be Orthodox.

Christ God has given the world a fine example for how those with such authority should behave in such circumstances: Saint Philip of Moscow.
 
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archer75

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as he goes on and blesses the very missiles hitting churches that are under his own omniphorion.
I'm not sure there is precedent for this. Is there? Has an Orthodox patriarch ever blessed the weapons he knew would be used to kill the people he claimed as his own flock? Or blessed the blessing of such weapons?
 
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ArmyMatt

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When he goes back to acting like a proper Patriarch instead of a Russian chauvinist and phlytist, then I will address him as a patriarch again.

that’s really not how it works. and that’s not what our saints say to do.
 
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