Unplanned, the movie

[SkyWriting]

They're called prisons.

Sorry. I've been in one. The basketball court with the roof that slides open does get too crowded sometimes. And the food is rarely up to average.

 

[Nithavela]

Sorry. I've been in one. The basketball court with the roof that slides open does get too crowded sometimes. And the food is rarely up to average.

Penal labor in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[SkyWriting]

Penal labor in the United States - Wikipedia

Kind of ridiculous. Inmates compete for these jobs with good behavior as incentive.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Kind of ridiculous. Inmates compete for these jobs with good behavior as incentive.

Yes, well, I imagine plantation slaves found incentive to be a house slave rather than a field slave.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, well, I imagine plantation slaves found incentive to be a house slave rather than a field slave.

Every person needs a job to do.

 

[Rajni]

I like the nuance used in God's word when it says God hates the shedding of innocent blood..

If He hates it so much, He can choose not to allow abortion-prone
wombs to become impregnated in the first place. Problem solved.

 

[Tinker Grey]

If He hates it so much, He can choose not to allow abortion-prone
wombs to become impregnated in the first place. Problem solved.

Indeed. If he hates it so much, he could prevent miscarriages. He could guarantee the viability and health of every fetus. But, he doesn't. One could say that this god is an abortion proponent.

 

[grasping the after wind]

That is a Pro-Choice position.

Pro-Life does require government enforcement becasue of the insistence that no abortions may be performed anywhere, for any persons.

I completely disagree with that assessment. I would say you are describing the anti abortion and pro abortion positions not the pro life and pro choice positions. The latter two are not confined to one's thoughts on abortion alone. They are terms that are simply too all encompassing to be relegated to only being applied to abortion.

 

[grasping the after wind]

If He hates it so much, He can choose not to allow abortion-prone
wombs to become impregnated in the first place. Problem solved.

If the ones involved in impregnating that womb are not inclined to do that why would God interfere?

 

[Tinker Grey]

If the ones involved in impregnating that womb are not inclined to do that why would God interfere?

Because I thought you said life was important? Maybe not.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Because I thought you said life was important? Maybe not.

I think many things are important, life among them. I just don't get why anyone expects God to be there to be an enabler of poor decisions.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I think many things are important, life among them. I just don't get why anyone expects God to be there to be an enabler of poor decisions.

I would have thought that preventing a life from being taken would be more important. Indeed, if uninteneded pregnancies didn't occur, sex without protection wouldn't be a poor decision. 2 birds, 1 stone.

 

[Rajni]

I think many things are important, life among them. I just don't get why anyone expects God to be there to be an enabler of poor decisions.

If the "shedding of innocent blood" is what's really taking place
with abortion, why wouldn't He take action? To not do so would,
indeed, be enabling if that's really the case.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I would have thought that preventing a life from being taken would be more important. Indeed, if uninteneded pregnancies didn't occur, sex without protection wouldn't be a poor decision. 2 birds, 1 stone.

What is the logical train of thought you used to decide that preventing a life from being taken would be more important that allowing people the freedom to chose what sort of decisions they take? To me that would depend upon reliance on the kind of basic assumptions that totalitarians are prone to but perhaps you have other basic assumptions leading to that conclusion that I have not considered?

 

[grasping the after wind]

If the "shedding of innocent blood" is what's really taking place
with abortion, why wouldn't He take action? To not do so would,
indeed, be enabling if that's really the case.

You seem to lack a bit of imagination here. God could simply take away the pleasure associated with reproduction altogether and make it a completely unpleasant experience and solve the whole
problem or make human reproduction an asexual process like a single cell creature. My view of God does not conform to the idea of the overprotective mother unwilling to allow her children to fend for themselves and learn to be responsible adults. If I thought God believed I was so useless as to make it necessary for him to not allow me to even have the chance of making a poor decision I would be somewhat insulted and quite a bit resentful of how god perceived me to be. After all that would rob me of the ability to make good decisions as well as poor ones.

 

[Tinker Grey]

What is the logical train of thought you used to decide that preventing a life from being taken would be more important that allowing people the freedom to chose what sort of decisions they take? To me that would depend upon reliance on the kind of basic assumptions that totalitarians are prone to but perhaps you have other basic assumptions leading to that conclusion that I have not considered?

The original statement was effectively, 'God should not allow pregnancies where the couple would abort.' Not allowing those pregnancies would not be enabling poor decisions in part because the only reason sex is a poor decision is when you're not prepared for the consequences. No consequences then no poor decisions.

Then you bring out freedom to choose. Well, they chose to have sex. They still get to choose sex. No loss of free will. If there is no pregancy, they need not make a decision. Is it a loss of free will to not have a decision point arise? No, of course not.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The original statement was effectively, 'God should not allow pregnancies where the couple would abort.' Not allowing those pregnancies would not be enabling poor decisions in part because the only reason sex is a poor decision is when you're not prepared for the consequences. No consequences then no poor decisions.

Then you bring out freedom to choose. Well, they chose to have sex. They still get to choose sex. No loss of free will. If there is no pregancy, they need not make a decision. Is it a loss of free will to not have a decision point arise? No, of course not.

Why not stop them from having sex by divine intervention, conditional ED perhaps? Or make it physically impossible for any pregnancy to ever be terminated? The result would be just as effective in ending abortion as the one proposed and as they need not make a decision there would be no more a loss of free will than in the other proposal. IMO taking away the need to make a decision is a loss of free will if there is no need to make a decision then there is no freedom of choice as freedom of choice needs an opportunity to make a decision.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Why not stop them from having sex by divine intervention, conditional ED perhaps? Or make it physically impossible for any pregnancy to ever be terminated? The result would be just as effective in ending abortion as the one proposed and as they need not make a decision there would be no more a loss of free will than in the other proposal. IMO taking away the need to make a decision is a loss of free will if there is no need to make a decision then there is no freedom of choice as freedom of choice needs an opportunity to make a decision.

Well that's the question isn't it: Why doesn't your god do anything? You've just provided a list of options. Why doesn't he pick one?

 

[Rajni]

You seem to lack a bit of imagination here. God could simply take away the pleasure associated with reproduction altogether and make it a completely unpleasant experience and solve the whole
problem or make human reproduction an asexual process like a single cell creature.

Well sure, He could've done that too.
He could've made everyone male-only or female-only,
or without reproductive organs altogether.

My view of God does not conform to the idea of the overprotective mother unwilling to allow her children to fend for themselves and learn to be responsible adults.

That's nice.

If I thought God believed I was so useless as to make it necessary for him to not allow me to even have the chance of making a poor decision I would be somewhat insulted and quite a bit resentful of how god perceived me to be. After all that would rob me of the ability to make good decisions as well as poor ones.

So to protect you from being insulted, He allows abortion.
Abortion can't be all that bad, then, if He doesn't step in
to stop it because doing so might offend someone.

So we've come full circle, end of thread.

 

[SkyWriting]

I completely disagree with that assessment. I would say you are describing the anti abortion and pro abortion positions not the pro life and pro choice positions. The latter two are not confined to one's thoughts on abortion alone. They are terms that are simply too all encompassing to be relegated to only being applied to abortion.

I completely disagree with your assessment. You should look up Pro-Life and Pro-Choice organizations and see what they do claim as their positions.

NARAL Pro-Choice America
Pro-Life Action League
Pro-Life Wisconsin
https://prolifeaction.org/