Universal Salvation - Did you know that this is at the core of the Gospel?

[TerryWoodenpic]

Salvation is the Spirit of Christ within you putting down sins in your own flesh which is manifested in the loving deeds you do towards other including those that hate you and persecute you. I often say - we are saved BY Jesus, not BECAUSE of Jesus. TRUST is at the heart of that Spirit residing in us. Without trust there is no Holy Spirit abiding in us.

And our Souls are that part of us that is of God within us, it is incorruptible.
The Holy Spirit. is sent by God....that communicates with our souls, to us.
The Holy spirit is always in communication with us, from the moment we are born.
The Holy spirit is with in us whether we trust in God or not.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And our Souls are that part of us that is of God within us, it is incorruptible.
The Holy Spirit. is sent by God....that communicates with our souls, to us.
The Holy spirit is always in communication with us, from the moment we are born.
The Holy spirit is with in us whether we trust in God or not.

This is false, completely and utterly. (it sounds like humanism/ cults)
You might find this out if you turn to God,
and if you read HIS WORD (THE BIBLE).

 

[Hewillcome2040]

I reiterate all men are loved by God and are guided and comforted By his holy Spirit.
However men are free to reject this guidance and comfort.

God loves all men... that includes men of all religions and none. He sends his Holy spirit to them all. to gather them to himself. How else do you think people ever come to be Christian?

Men are only able to exercise their freewill in the framework that God provides. Augustine of Hippo wrote a great piece on Grace and Freewill. In it, he explains how God can turn the wills of man wheresoever He pleases.

CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

Chapter 41 for example:

Chapter 41 [XX.]— The Wills of Men are So Much in the Power of God, that He Can Turn Them Whithersoever It Pleases Him

If should be no wonder when we understand that why someone would ask what we find in Romans:

Rom_9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

 

[Hewillcome2040]

I reiterate all men are loved by God and are guided and comforted By his holy Spirit.
However men are free to reject this guidance and comfort.

God loves all men... that includes men of all religions and none. He sends his Holy spirit to them all. to gather them to himself. How else do you think people ever come to be Christian?

Many years ago I had a debate about Grace. I use to believe it meant umeritted favor. I was wrong then and came to understand it. It did include umeritted favor but that is not what Grace is. Grace is APPROVAL. You see God gives umeritted favor to all men but He does not APPROVE of ALL. Therefore, Grace has appeared unto all but not all have received Grace (Approval). So I agree that God loves everyone but I don't believe that all have received His Approval and I believe that Approval is the having the seal of the Holy Spirit.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

If you trust modern study, that's the opposite of, contradicted by , faith in God and His Word and His Spirit.
God says in His Word by His Spirit that HE HIMSELF curses everyone/anyone (even "believers") who trusts in the flesh (i.e. in "modern study") .

That is the best reason ever to turn to TRUTH, to TRUST GOD, and no longer trust the men who deceived you.

I suggest I might be wasting my time. if you do not believe that Study, science and reason, support, not hinder, Faith.
For instance do you believe in a young earth? or disbelieve evolution? because of uncritical belief in the bible. If that is so, we have more than Universal Salvation separating us from reality.

 

[redleghunter]

The interesting fact that come to mind when reading them, is your complete faith that the Gospels were written by who they are credited to.
Which modern study is finding increasingly hard top justify.

I don't find the secular "Jesus Seminar" as Biblical scholarship. This is what theologians and Biblical scholars say about the dating and authorship of the NT books:

Source: A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books

More detail by Gospel account:

Dating the Gospel of Matthew

Dating the Gospel of Mark

Dating the Gospel of Luke

Dating the Gospel of John

Edit: another good source based on the writings of the early church fathers and their use of the NT:

Dating the New Testament - Early Church Fathers

 

[jerry kelso]

Rich Man = High Priest (based on his apparel and the rest of the parable)
Begger = Lazarus - a Lepper (covered in sores)
Lazarus would be laid at the gait since leppers could not enter therein because they were not clean.

So already though this is a parable, the Pharisees would have made identification with this story for the would have known a real Lazarus and understood the clothing depiction of the rich man.

Gulf = something to wide to be passible. I believe this is the mortality the rich man has verses the immortality of Abraham.

So now ask yourself why would the flames affect the tongue of the rich man? It is by the tongue of the High Priest that his sins were being committed.

hewillcome2040,

1. These are just your opinions and conjectures and not Bible context.
You are just bringing up objections to cast doubt of the truth of this passage to make it appear like your doctrine has validity when it doesn't.

That is unfair, corrected and incorrect exegesis no matter how much you thinks it makes sense.

2. The flame of the tongue shows there is torment in hell for the soul though the physical body is in the grave and dead as a doorknob. Jerry kelso

 

[redleghunter]

Read for instance Introduction to the Gospel of Matthew

Your source confirms the one I posted.

Matthew even reproduced about ninety percent of Mark, while Luke reproduced about sixty percent. [9][10] it was probably written somewhere between AD 50 and AD 55. Consequently, Matthew's Gospel could have reasonably been written anywhere between AD 55 and AD 60.

 

[redleghunter]

I would suggest that while "Matthew" and "Luke" are clearly central to Faith. we are far from certain where they got their material from, or if it was even them who wrote it down...

It was the testimony of the very early church fathers which confirmed the authorship.

We now know that all the writings credited to Paul were not written by him

Which ones? Show me credible sources.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

It should be reasonably clear to both of you that I am not a Bible literalist.
I do not believe the bible to be the actual words of God or Jesus.
There is no objective truth in the bible only inferred truths.
Were that not so, there would only be one opinion about anything in it, which is clearly nothing like the case.

That is a logical fallacy. The fact that there are objective truths in any book does not translate into none being subject to interpretation, and thus variant ones. Meanwhile, if you relegate Scripture to being only inferred Truths, how does this effect your belief in such things as the Nicene Creed?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I suggest I might be wasting my time. if you do not believe that Study, science and reason, support, not hinder, Faith.
For instance do you believe in a young earth? or disbelieve evolution? because of uncritical belief in the bible. If that is so, we have more than Universal Salvation separating us from reality.

If you are not seeking YHWH'S Kingdom, nothing you do matters - all of life is then a waste of time.

Yes, you are separated from reality. The more you post, the more this is obvious.

Nothing supports true faith if what you believe is untrue (such as the main example you already admitted).
Because of believing a lie, like Eve did, it will be more difficult for you to turn to God , perhaps. (I'm not sure why it should be more difficult, except as you said you have believed the lie for so long....
the root of why you started IN THE FIRST PLACE - WHO FIRST TOLD YOU THE LIE -
might go a long way to healing,
but again, ONLY if you seek YHWH'S KINGDOM, seeking the TRUTH, opposed to the lie you already admitted (without knowing yet WHO TAUGHT YOU THE LIE- what person or demon or group?)

This is NOT UNUSUAL - most people on earth, most people in every group, never find the truth because they do not seek the truth. They just go along with the lie along with all the people they are comfortable with , or surrounded by -
this is critically difficult when they are dependent on the group or family or whatever,
since to turn to the truth may result in their being kicked out, abandoned, losing their support that they trusted in in error.
So true, few ever even take the steps of faith to seek God's Kingdom - they don't TRUST GOD and they don't want to give up their love for the world and the things of the world, thus they are NEVER SAVED, not in this life, and
no possibility in the resurrection, no , none at all , ACCORDING TO GOD.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

sources.

hasatan uses "credible" sources,
impeccable credentials,
to deceive the whole world and even christians very often when he can.

Already we were told the sources for those who believe the heresy
are "credible" to them, because of the deception of demons and of men;
but
they are not at all trustworthy sources, since they directly refuse to believe Scripture AND they promote a false gospel (which we are not even to ever tangle with, except to expose it).

 

[FireDragon76]

It is believed my many scholars that later pastoral epistles were probably not written by Paul. This was true even in Luther's day. They were probably written by a disciple of Paul's.

Authorship of the Pauline epistles - Wikipedia

But... I agree about the Jesus Seminar. Movie directors are not biblical scholars. Their orientation is inherently skeptical, as well, of most traditional Christian beliefs. Their agenda is to turn mainline churches into various flavors of unitarianism.

 

[redleghunter]

It is believed my many scholars that later pastoral epistles were probably not written by Paul. This was true even in Luther's day. They were probably written by a disciple of Paul's.

Authorship of the Pauline epistles - Wikipedia

But... I agree about the Jesus Seminar. Movie directors are not biblical scholars. Their orientation is inherently skeptical, as well, of most traditional Christian beliefs. Their agenda is to turn mainline churches into various flavors of unitarianism.

Not even close.

Universal Salvation - Did you know that this is at the core of the Gospel?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Men are only able to exercise their freewill in the framework that God provides.

Because of freewill,
and even if any other condition,
YHWH is perfectly JUST and RIGHT to condemn men, forever, eternally. Exactly, as His Word Says.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They were probably written by a disciple of Paul's.

Except this contradicts God's Word. (unless you mean Paul dictated to a disciple to write for him)

 

[mkgal1]

But what you and I might believe Salvation to be, might differ considerably.
as pointed out in my previous posts.

I think I'm understanding what you're meaning to be "salvation" (a return to God) and I think I agree.

"Holiness" means "wholeness" and until we've been purged of our sinfulness (the dross)...we aren't going to be the people God created us to be. We will still remain in need of His healing.

I believe we were all "saved" through His incarnation (in one sense of the word) as He trampled down death by death.......and He is "saving" us as we are encouraged by His Holy Spirit towards His goodness....but we don't experience "salvation" until we reach our holiness and can be fully restored to Him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

but we don't experience "salvation" until we reach our holiness and can be fulled restored to Him.

Look instead to Scripture and true teaching in the BIBLE.

See what is TRUTH about experiential oneness with Jesus in the ekklesia in the NT - they did not have to wait for salvation (eternal life) - except they did have to endure to the end, as Jesus says often.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think I'm understanding what you're meaning to be "salvation" (a return to God) and I think I agree.

"Holiness" means "wholeness" and until we've been purged of our sinful nature (the dross)...we aren't going to be the people God created us to be. We will still remain in need of His healing.

I believe we were all "saved" through His incarnation (in one sense of the word) as He trampled down death by death.......and He is "saving" us as we are encouraged by His Holy Spirit towards His goodness....but we don't experience "salvation" until we reach our holiness and can be fulled restored to Him.

That's a new-agey reinterpretation of holiness.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

I suggest I might be wasting my time. if you do not believe that Study, science and reason, support, not hinder, Faith.
For instance do you believe in a young earth? or disbelieve evolution? because of uncritical belief in the bible. If that is so, we have more than Universal Salvation separating us from reality.

I definitely disbelieve macro evolution while I do believe in micro evolution. I also believe in a 6000 year dominion of man on earth. I do believe that study, science and reason do support Faith when evaluated through the lens of the Spirit of God.