Universal Basic Income

[Fantine]

What do we do when technology takes away many of our jobs? Within a few decades technology is expected to take away 47% of all today's current jobs.

Economist Robert Reich--inch for inch the smartest man in America--suggests the Universal Basic Income. Finland and Switzerland are two countries that employ this strategy.

His videos are filled with charming cartoons that he draws along the way (speeded up, of course, in the cartoon) but I do believe this is where we need to be headed.

Either that or fewer work hours for everyone.

What do you think of this idea ethically? I would prefer reduced work weeks and hours, but if our society created this problem (which it has) I believe our society has to deal with it compassionately.

Robert Reich (Why We’ll Need a Universal Basic Income Imagine a...)

 

[Saucy]

I know you'll be shocked to hear this, but I'm completely against the idea haha.

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

The only way it could possibly work is if the super-wealthy are on board with the idea. Otherwise they will find ways to avoid paying confiscatory taxes (which you would need to have to share the wealth with all) and we are stuck with a Venezuela situation.

Some of the super-wealthy would be okay with sharing the majority of their wealth while others are quite stingy and would love to see the hungry masses starve to death. There are many super-wealthy who believe that we have way too many people in this world and who would like to see the population reduced by 90%. They even joke about it. The joke is on them though.

I believe the Lord is coming again soon but even if He doesn't, world-class geneticists know a secret that they aren't talking about. The planet is dying. Not from pollution, although that is speeding up the genetic catastrophe that is looming. And there is so far, nothing to stop it from occurring.

When a creature gets to an approximate 3% mutation rate, it and all of its mates and cousins are on the path to extinction. They know this and they also know that "gene therapy" is a blind alley as the genome of even the most simple creature is way too complex to ever do much other than "genetic parlor tricks". It seems that when one gene is tinkered with, it messes up three or four genetic systems. We simply aren't smart enough to do much with it. There are some who believe that the fallen angels that the Bible speaks of were tampering with the human genome and that is what got them locked up in the bottomless pit and caused the world wide Flood. Perhaps that is the hope that some of the wicked have pursued in trying to circumvent the curse of God. In Hebrew it reads, "Dying you will die." There is only One Way to eternal life and it is through Jesus Christ.

 

[dcalling]

Technology will never replace people, they are deisgned to do number crunching and the hard repetitive work, and us will do the relational or creative work. So in the future, the work will ether be entertainer, face to face service, software related or other creative sectors. For people who has no skills, they will be human services, i.e. security guards, plumbers, handyman, or anything that only a human can do. I would imaging by that time food will be so cheap it will be very easy to survive.

An universal basic income will either instantly cause inflation (if it is applied to everyone), or raising the hiring cost by that amount and impede small businesses. Economy is the most strange thing....

 

[Saucy]

I know it's easy to get caught up on what's fair, but any type of socialism or universal-anything is in now way fair. No matter what system of government you have, someone will have to take up the slack. In this case, paying a McDonalds worker the same as a doctor is a major slap in the face.

It's just like the wage gap myth for women. Women don't really get paid less, they actually work less than men on average. They work less hours and take more breaks/vacations.

According to highly acclaimed career expert and best-selling author, Marty Nemko, “The data is clear that for the same work men and women are paid roughly the same. The media need to look beyond the claims of feminist organizations.”

8 Reasons Why The "Gender Pay Gap" Is A Total Sham

Things are more fair under a capitalistic system. You get paid for your skill level and the value you provide to the world/your clients, etc.

If robots replace humans, then get in the business of robot programming. Learn code. Every year, online retail sales are taking bigger chunks out of brick-and-mortar stores. I work for a guy who makes millions buying and selling on Amazon and Google, using affiliate marketing, and so much more.

You have to adjust with the times, learn new skills, and grow as a person.

 

[Fantine]

Imagine how many factory jobs will be eliminated with 3-D printers.

I even read about a college student who made invisalign braces for himself on a 3-D printer on campus--all he needed was the computations, and the invisaligns cost something like $40 instead of $3000 or more.

As I've said a number of times, without a middle class, there isn't enough "demand" for consumer goods to allow those wealthy people to prosper. So in a sense, supporting socially progressive programs bolsters the middle class and improves the bottom line of their factories, stores, and businesses.

 

[Saucy]

And when you start taxing rich people, they raise the price on everything. Who does that hit? The middle class. The poor are elevated, the rich can afford it, and the middle class gets stiffed again. Raising taxes hurts them the most as they are more likely to be in that "I'm doing okay right now, though I wish I had some money saved and I'm one fall short of being in the poorhouse." A raise of prices, of gas, the cost of food, etc, all hits the middle class the worst.

 

[tstor]

No one is entitled to an income. It is as simple as that.

 

[Tree of Life]

What do we do when technology takes away many of our jobs? Within a few decades technology is expected to take away 47% of all today's current jobs.

Economist Robert Reich--inch for inch the smartest man in America--suggests the Universal Basic Income. Finland and Switzerland are two countries that employ this strategy.

His videos are filled with charming cartoons that he draws along the way (speeded up, of course, in the cartoon) but I do believe this is where we need to be headed.

Either that or fewer work hours for everyone.

What do you think of this idea ethically? I would prefer reduced work weeks and hours, but if our society created this problem (which it has) I believe our society has to deal with it compassionately.

Robert Reich (Why We’ll Need a Universal Basic Income Imagine a...)

2 Thessalonians 3:10

 

[Fantine]

2 Thessalonians 3:10

That excludes the disabled, the elderly, and young children then...

And what of those who are willing to work but no work is available?
That day could be coming very soon as technology advances, and we even have to deal with artificial intelligence.

 

[timewerx]

What do you think of this idea ethically? I would prefer reduced work weeks and hours, but if our society created this problem (which it has) I believe our society has to deal with it compassionately.

Robert Reich (Why We’ll Need a Universal Basic Income Imagine a...)

You only have few options in the face of highly automated future:

- Universal Basic Income in order to live life as usual OR
- Eugenics/population control/population reduction - only allow people who could be productive in an automated society to live (this is going to be very few, mostly engineers, medicine, scientists, computer programmers, leaders/politicians) OR
- Create a city or a nation surrounded by huge, heavily guarded walls where only productive people in automated society (engineers, software programmers, medicine, science, and in leadership) are allowed to live inside. The rest who can't contribute to an automated society fends for themselves outside the wall similar to the setup in Hunger Games film sequels. OR
- Ban Automation/Robots

Those in developing/3rd world countries would take a major hit though. Pretty sure many businesses would be quick to adapt to the technological advances but the severe corruption and bureaucracy in their government would make implementation of a working Universal Basic Income impossible. Automation could actually seriously destabilize 3rd world socieites.

 

[quatona]

No one is entitled to an income. It is as simple as that.

No, it´s not as simple as that.

I know it's easy to get caught up on what's fair, but any type of socialism or universal-anything is in now way fair. No matter what system of government you have, someone will have to take up the slack. In this case, paying a McDonalds worker the same as a doctor is a major slap in the face.

Except this is not what universal basic income is about.

Things are more fair under a capitalistic system.

As you said above that depends entirely on your idea what´s fair.

 

[tstor]

No, it´s not as simple as that.

It does not have to be, no. But any further complications are unnecessary.

 

[Tomm]

What do we do when technology takes away many of our jobs? Within a few decades technology is expected to take away 47% of all today's current jobs.

Economist Robert Reich--inch for inch the smartest man in America--suggests the Universal Basic Income. Finland and Switzerland are two countries that employ this strategy.

His videos are filled with charming cartoons that he draws along the way (speeded up, of course, in the cartoon) but I do believe this is where we need to be headed.

Either that or fewer work hours for everyone.

What do you think of this idea ethically? I would prefer reduced work weeks and hours, but if our society created this problem (which it has) I believe our society has to deal with it compassionately.

Robert Reich (Why We’ll Need a Universal Basic Income Imagine a...)

It sounds like a wonderful idea, but isn't it welfare state?
I doubt it'd work, it'd end up making everyone poor.

 

[buzuxi]

Technology will create more and better jobs, not take away jobs. There was a time a century ago that the plumbers complained that pre-fabbed copper elbow pipes would take away their job, as plumbers fabricated them on the spot. All it did was bring costs down, create jobs at the new fabrication plant and made everything more efficient. The same was said when sewing machines were invented and so on.

I'm in the restaurant business, many decades ago every plate and fork and spoon was washed by hand, but then the robot known as the commerical dishwasher was invented. This allowed to eliminate one extra dishwasher, If you employed three dishwasher you were now able to fire one of them. The dishwasher elevated health standards as these wash plates in the appropriate cycles using 140-160 degree water sterilizing everything. The Health Dept will not even allow you to open a restaurant without this machine nowadays. So you lost some dishwashing jobs but created an entire industry for the better for maintenance, installation and selling of the various soaps and detergents needed.
Who do you think is going to repair, install, maintain and manufacture these robots? The robots replace menial labor jobs for better ones.

 

[buzuxi]

The only way it could possibly work is if the super-wealthy are on board with the idea. Otherwise they will find ways to avoid paying confiscatory taxes (which you would need to have to share the wealth with all) and we are stuck with a Venezuela situation.

Some of the super-wealthy would be okay with sharing the majority of their wealth while others are quite stingy and would love to see the hungry masses starve to death.

This is not how UBI works. For example why doesnt Venezuela provide basic Income? Why don't they just print money and put them in their citizens mailboxes? Along with every poor country? There is UBI programs in Africa but not one hospital has been built, not one road, not one school with their newly found income. Thats because wealth and infrastructure and law are reciprocal. The infrastructure of bridges and roads and ports create wealth, but wealth maintains them and the rule of law and enforcement of contracts hold it all together. UBI envisions a future where GDP and productivity is high enough from all this automation that we can just recieve a paycheck and lay back.

But what happens when that productivity falls or does not exist? Venezuela happens because our fiat money is worthless paper. How do you think Greece was able to get everyone to retire at about 50? UBI aka government pensions, originally the drachma was constantly devalued the politicians kept the population pacified this way, and all the people knew was this lower standard of living because their free money didn't have much buying power. Then they decided to give up their printing presses for the Euro and Germany decided they didnt want to provide the greeks with their Universal basic pension, umm I mean income.......

In fact its also why wealthy first world nations can get away with this idea, their peoples still have confidence in their monetary printing presses and economies, and have duped every other nation to go along with their fiat paper scheme.

 

[Kalevalatar]

People are our nation's greatest and most valuable resource. If the Universal Basic Income trial will prove to be able to reduce bureaucracy, especially overlapping social benefits, and free time from paper-pushing and form-filling to more productive activities, and thereby dismantle disincentives to work by encouraging self-employment, innovation and entrepreneurship, and boost employment, including part-time and temporarily work, it'll get my vote as a model how to reform our 20th century social security system to better meet our 21st century challenges.

It sounds like a wonderful idea, but isn't it welfare state?
I doubt it'd work, it'd end up making everyone poor.

Actually, the Nordic welfare state model has managed to make the American Dream come true unlike in the United States: opportunity to pursue happiness, prosperity and success regardless of one's socio-economic background and based on individual merit and motivation rather than dad's money and inherited wealth, upward social intergenerational mobility, equality, freedom and good life across the board.

 

[Earatha]

I've been toying with this idea for a while. So I'll add a thought or two.

In the near future we are goi g to lose a lot of jobs to automations or obsolescence, and they won't be coming back. Some of this loss will be offset (if we act quickly and wisely) by jobs in new fields. Some won't. We will have a number of people out of work with nowhere to go.

Part of what is going to need to happen is a change in our culture. We currently believe that wealth is a symbol of merit, that it is a result of hard work and effort. This isn't true, but it is the concept we hold. The super wealthy don't strive for more wealth because it makes them better off, it doesn't. They strive for more wealth because it's a scoreboard our culture has set for success.

And this is a good culture if you want to create a wealthy nation. As such some aspects of this culture would have to stay, some income inequality is desirable. We want people to strive to better themselves and work hard. But at what will people strive for when so many of the jobs we have now are gone?

A basic income would free up a lot of people. Yes, you would get a few parasitic moochers, that would be inevitable. But if you changed the culture these people would be ostracized for being lazy good for nothings. Build a culture where such behavior is shamed. Then those mooches will either isolate themselves or try something moderately productive. Either way the problem would be rare. But again, this would take a shift in culture.

My goal for this would be to create a culture where we have an explosion of innovation. Free from food insecurity people could be artists, poets, inventors. We could send people to trade school, apprenticeship, or college without them having to worry about how they're going to eat or live. This is the kind of culture I want.

 

[buzuxi]

You don't need to worry because all this automation will not make anyone unemployed The OP is considering a time when we live like the "Jetsons" and have mechanical servants and Robots are made by other Robots and their microchips are made by machines with artificial intellience and self awareness. You will have all the time for poetry and music and philosophical debates because you have the leisure to as your robot slaves work for you. Every third person will own a gym and be a personal trainer because everyone will need to be on a treadmill now that we no longer work and are couch potatos, others will still work in entertainment and film during the times we are on the couch. With so much free labor and productivity the 5 minute work week will be the norm. In other words this utopia or distopia will never happen it's a fantasy.

 

[Thursday]

What do we do when technology takes away many of our jobs? .)

How did the buggy whip makers and candle makers survive?