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Unity and abortion

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by W2L, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Most countries have social services to rescue abused children. Of course, this is more of a Hail Mary pass than an effective policy.
    Nothing can replace the family network. That is why stressing family values are what conservatives deem to be an essential part of any message.
    It is all connected.
     
  2. Paul of Eugene OR

    Paul of Eugene OR Finally Old Enough Supporter

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    That's not what he said at all, but I suppose some people don't see how they can afford to have children and so seek an abortion.

    How about universal health care for all children? Wouldn't that be a great way to show the children of this nation they are wanted? How about paying for a great education for all children? Shouldn't all the schools in America have adequate supplies for the kids in school, so we don't have to do charity work to get school supplies for kids?
     
  3. Ancient of Days

    Ancient of Days Active Member Supporter

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    I never said it was about poor people, its about the attitude of the heart. To accuse me of twisting the verse is ludicrous. Do you not think that poor people who are fully capable of working and choose not to do so should be fed by those who do work hard? And save the self righteous overtones for someone else.
     
  4. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I thought Obama care did that. Are you saying Obama care doesnt insure children?
     
  5. Paul of Eugene OR

    Paul of Eugene OR Finally Old Enough Supporter

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    Only more of them not all of them. Perhaps we can do better.
     
  6. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran

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    Abortion is an issue upon which Christians do not agree. Some time ago I started a thread asking whether Christians would be willing to compromise if it would mean that we could reduce the number of abortions. We had some peoples say that they would not compromise on anything, including allowing abortions to save the life of the mother or allowing abortions in cases of rape. If some Christians are not willing to allow abortions in those cases, how can we ever come together on abortion?
     
  7. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Obama care covers me and im an adult. I imagine that children who dont have insurance can get Obamacare.
     
  8. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thats it right there. All you must do is apply for HC assistance and you get coverage. It's not hard.
     
  9. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Member

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    Well I disagree there's little concern given to those having poor conditions. Many of the people opposing for example welfare from the government, support charity from the church. Problem is whether charity is enough to provide for those who need. If welfare which more people pay for isn't, then I'm not sure how only charity would. I think they are as much concerned, but are more black and white about it; thinking if people just did this or that, the problem is solved. It's not that simple as people are human to start, easier said than done after the fact; never will all do as they should and always some won't.

    Promoting family values is helpful, but I don't think it's broadly effective. Many know the importance of family and it's not prevented the problems. After the fact when there's dysfunctional families, undeserving parents, selfish and irresponsible people; we can't unrealistically expect too much from them, else they wouldn't need help. If such people were homeless, I wouldn't choose to leave them on the streets regardless; or the children who happened to be dependent upon them.

    I think the disagreement here is the chicken or the egg; which comes first. Do you oppose any help until certain expectations are met? Or is it certain help should be given balancing what's needed presently and expected eventually? Regardless of parents, how should the children be helped?

    Considering we're a nation of hundreds of millions, it's impossible not to compromise. There isn't a monolithic people who can absolutely decide all children can be aborted or no children can be aborted. I rather women had no abortions wherever; but if that's my political expectation regardless, then obviously nothing will be done to change the laws. Not sure specifically what I'd support, except I'm supportive of the idea to reduce abortions.
     
  10. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    It is the only thing that is effective. Without strong families, the whole system becomes unsustainable.
    The choice is between strong families and disaster.

    It is nothing to do with chickens and eggs. The social welfare system is in place in all first world countries. Welfare is not the issue. It is the diversion from the issue, which is the destruction of a third of each generation through abortion.
     
  11. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    HC is really not an issue on abortion.
    People have options. Nobody is face with kill your child, or die from absence of health care.
     
  12. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    How about birth control? I asked a girl who had had 6 abortions why she didn't take birth control pills. She said, "Oh, I wouldn't do that to my body!" What a narcissist. No conscience at all.
     
  13. Paul of Eugene OR

    Paul of Eugene OR Finally Old Enough Supporter

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    Would you wish upon some poor unsuspecting baby for that girl to be his/her mother?
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    No! Don't start a baby at all, if you are just going to torture it.
     
  15. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Member

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    I don't disagree stable families are ideal. But when that's lacking, additional efforts are needed to help. Welfare isn't a diversion, along with having a family is being able to provide for it. Socioeconomic forces lead people to certain decisions, including abortion. I'm confused what your plan would be to address the underlying causes, with or without government; other than ban abortion, which wouldn't solve the other problems such as unwanted children or poor families etc. If those aren't solve, abortions will be pushed underground.
     
  16. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Christian unity is not going to come on everybody getting together in order to build the biggest welfare state ever in a society where welfare already exists.
    Until Christians start out with the basic agreement that abortion is wrong, and that killing a third of each generation through abortion is truly horrifying to contemplate, there is no possibility of unity on the issue.

    If welfare is the most important thing for you, well that is just great for you.
    My plan starts with just sharing the basic horror of what abortion has wrought on society.
    For people to use abortion as a pretext to "fix" society with more and more and more welfare without first bluntly stating that abortion is a blasphemy against all that the Incarnation stands for is disingenuous at best, and in my mind a diversion.
    The way that this conversation started out was with someone saying ' conservative don't give a hoot about children after they are born, because they don't support my social welfare program' and that is nothing other than a lie and a diversion. What true unity entails is where those socialist Christians state that conservative Christians are not the only ones that care about the unborn, and that Christians on the left are every bit as horrified over what abortion is doing to society as they already know that conservative Christians are.

    Christianity is not about government programs; it is about evangelizing the message of Christ.
    And the message of Christ is this slaughter of the least of my brothers is a monstrous act.

    That is the first premise that defines Christianity for me. What about you? From there socialists can work toward the goal of eliminating that holocaust from their own perspective, and conservatives can work toward the goal of eliminating the abortion holocaust from their perspective too. Christian unity is not going to come about by unity of method. It exists in the unity of the goal, with every one taking the path that they believe will be the most effective of bringing about the goal of a society where the infinite worth of all human life is acknowledged and believe in.
    The proselytizing of the message that every life is made in the image of God from conception until its natural end is the Christian is where Christian unity is to be found.
     
  17. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Member

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    Original post was about unity politically against abortion. I'm just saying realistically it'll never be banned and that only wouldn't solve the underlying problems causing it. So from a political and practical perspective it would require other efforts related to the issue. A political compromise aimed at reducing abortions, while a ban isn't possible. If there's a lack of support for those efforts, then yes, politically nothing can be done, except other efforts separately.

    I agree Christianity isn't about politics, it does have life values and principles. If we participate politically they're helpful to guide us. Clearly the government isn't the church, but it's there deciding the rules under which we're allowed to live. So even as a Christian I can't be oppositional to it as I live my life; I need a government that represents me too as it does others.

    Personally I belief Christianity is first about accepting Christ in your life; following his footsteps to God, changing our selfish ways. Then as we're changed to show ourselves in his glory, as an example for others to follow. A spiritual journey that's personal and shared with others.
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Well, it does hurt a lot of people young and old.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    It might be, but it is a dangerous government system that does so, that is already in place.

    In congregations abiding in Christ, it is no problem, for everyone is cared for .

    The fact that this is hard to find in the world today,

    does not change God's Word nor does it change what God's people do when they are living together in union with Jesus as written all through the Epistles.
     
  20. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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