Uniting Methodist Movement

[circuitrider]

Take a look at this link for the Uniting Methodist Movement, a group within the UMC seeking to maintain unity while allowing for diversity. Recent surveys by this group suggest that 75-80% of United Methodists don't want a split. Where is that voice being heard?

Uniting Methodists – Join Our Movement

 

[bekkilyn]

Thanks! Signed.

 

[circuitrider]

I am planning on being at the November gathering in Atlanta to hear the presentations.

Given that the majority of United Methodists don't appear to really want a split, I think we need to be talking about our options for people with honest differences to live together in the UMC.

 

[bekkilyn]

The whole idea of a split over something that doesn't even concern essential doctrine related to salvation just seems ridiculous to me.

 

[circuitrider]

Bekkilyn, I have to agree. It is only such a huge deal because people are making it a huge deal. If we could adopt a stance of each pastor, congregation and conference doing as they feel led, we could move on with sharing the gospel. As it is, we are on the verge of self-destruction because we can't agree to disagree.

 

[seeking.IAM]

...If we could adopt a stance of each pastor, congregation and conference doing as they feel led, we could move on with sharing the gospel. As it is, we are on the verge of self-destruction because we can't agree to disagree.

That which you propose is the path of The Episcopal Church. The Church has said, "You may" but each Bishop decides what is permitted in his/her diocese. If the Bishop agrees, "You May," each priest may or may not, and if the priest says he or she will, the congregation decides what will be permitted in their parish. (An aside, our last Bishop permitted priests to perform gay marriages, but not within the geographical boundaries of his diocese, and therefore not within their own parishes.)

I think it is a good system, but it is not perfect. There are still many points where decisions made by the national church, a Bishop, a Priest, or a congregation can offend someone, who ultimately decides to go elsewhere. So while it may ward off a formal split, people self-elect to split nonetheless in reaction to decisions made -- made in one direction or the other.

I was one of you for over 50 years and continue to hold you in great affection and prayer. I hope the UMC finds a solution avoiding schism. I also wish it would get there, instead of kicking the can down the road at each general conference while studying the issue further. I suspect delaying resolution is not helpful either.

 

[circuitrider]

That which you propose is the path of The Episcopal Church.

All the denominations that have come to some compromise have used a similar methodology, depending on their own polity. I honestly think that is the direction we need to go to avoid a split.

Yes, some persons on the far right and far left with split off. But given that at least 3/4ths of the denomination does not want a split, the middle needs to stick together and find a way forward.

 

[Rawtheran]

Take a look at this link for the Uniting Methodist Movement, a group within the UMC seeking to maintain unity while allowing for diversity. Recent surveys by this group suggest that 75-80% of United Methodists don't want a split. Where is that voice being heard?

Uniting Methodists – Join Our Movement

The United Methodist Church certainly has its issues, but it is also a denomination that I'm very passionate about and look forward to serving in one day as an Elder. I will gladly sign the petition!

 

[Basil the Great]

That which you propose is the path of The Episcopal Church. The Church has said, "You may" but each Bishop decides what is permitted in his/her diocese. If the Bishop agrees, "You May," each priest may or may not, and if the priest says he or she will, the congregation decides what will be permitted in their parish. (An aside, our last Bishop permitted priests to perform gay marriages, but not within the geographical boundaries of his diocese, and therefore not within their own parishes.)

I think it is a good system, but it is not perfect. There are still many points where decisions made by the national church, a Bishop, a Priest, or a congregation can offend someone, who ultimately decides to go elsewhere. So while it may ward off a formal split, people self-elect to split nonetheless in reaction to decisions made -- made in one direction or the other.

I was one of you for over 50 years and continue to hold you in great affection and prayer. I hope the UMC finds a solution avoiding schism. I also wish it would get there, instead of kicking the can down the road at each general conference while studying the issue further. I suspect delaying resolution is not helpful either.

I was thinking about this matter myself today and came up with the same conclusion. Could the UMC not leave it up to each Bishop and/or each local congregation what to do about gay marriage,etc.?

 

[JackRT]

I was thinking about this matter myself today and came up with the same conclusion. Could the UMC not leave it up to each Bishop and/or each local congregation what to do about gay marriage,etc.?

That has been the approach of the United Church of Canada. It seems to have worked for them.

 

[circuitrider]

I was thinking about this matter myself today and came up with the same conclusion. Could the UMC not leave it up to each Bishop and/or each local congregation what to do about gay marriage,etc.?

Historically that isn't the kind of decision Bishops make in the UMC. They have a much more circumscribed role. But any change will require a change of our Discipline. It could be a change based on Jurisdiction, Annual Conference or local church.

My own preference is that the decision be made above the local church as the current understand of polity is that pastors decide whom they do weddings for, not congregations. So if we change that for the same sex marriage issue, we lesson the role of the pastor in being able to decide whom they perform a wedding for. But I could live with the congregational decision if that would move us forward.

We likely will see a proposal from the Way Forward Commission by late spring of 2018 as there is a deadline they have to meet for the 2019 special called General Conference.

 

[raschau]

If we could adopt a stance of each pastor, congregation and conference doing as they feel led, we could move on with sharing the gospel.

So, your solution to the present disagreement is to allow liberal pastors in liberal regional congregations to present their version of the Gospel, and to allow conservative pastors in conservative regional congregations to present theirs, and call it unity?

The Anglican Church in North America tried this with one of their contentious issues - women's ordination. They agreed that each congregation should have the right to ordain women if they feel 'led' to do so, while promising they would revisit the issue later, after a trial period. Upon revisiting, they agreed with their base that: "...there is insufficient scriptural warrant to accept women’s ordination to the priesthood as standard practice throughout the Province," but "continue[d] to acknowledge that individual dioceses have constitutional authority to ordain women to the priesthood."

This kind of hypocrisy is not holding the middle in the ACNA in re: women's ordination, and it will not hold the middle in the UMC in re: human sexuality. So long as Scriptural warrant and constitutional authority are at odds, there will be no unity. The ACNA, already a 'continuing' movement previously in resurgence, is now tearing itself apart.

Those of us who have resigned ourselves to the reality of a split [nobody favors a split, per se] see ourselves as rather favoring the status quo, one that is based on Scriptural warrant and which cannot be unequally yoked with regional authority. The compromise is not good enough - even for the middle.

 

[circuitrider]

So, your solution to the present disagreement is to allow liberal pastors in liberal regional congregations to present their version of the Gospel, and to allow conservative pastors in conservative regional congregations to present theirs, and call it unity?

Unity and uniformity are only the same thing in communist countries and fundamentalist churches. There are huge numbers of issues where United Methodists have differing opinions and work around them without major problems. This would just be added to the list.

 

[GraceSeeker]

I am planning on being at the November gathering in Atlanta to hear the presentations.

Given that the majority of United Methodists don't appear to really want a split, I think we need to be talking about our options for people with honest differences to live together in the UMC.

Me too. Are you driving or flying and where are you staying? I'm driving (going to be a late night) and am staying at the Westin Peachtree Plaza. Love to have a chance to meet you in person.

 

[circuitrider]

Me too. Are you driving or flying and where are you staying? I'm driving (going to be a late night) and am staying at the Westin Peachtree Plaza. Love to have a chance to meet you in person.

I’m flying. There are some people driving from Iowa. But its quite a trek and I didn’t want to be gone the extra couple of days. I’m staying at the La Quinta just north of the airport.

Does this board have a private message function? We can exchange some contact information and touch base at the meeting. I’d also enjoy meeting someone from this forum!

 

[GraceSeeker]

Well, I could find how to leave you a message on your profile, but not a private message. However, I also found you on Facebook and left a PM for you there.

 

[hedrick]

There is a PM function. In this version it's called "start a conversation."

 

[GraceSeeker]

There is a PM function. In this version it's called "start a conversation."

Thanks, Hedrick.