Uniting All Christians as One Body

[JJB]

From dictionary.com:

Ecumenical:

1. Of worldwide scope or applicability; universal.

1. <LI type=a>Of or relating to the worldwide Christian church.
2. Concerned with establishing or promoting unity among churches or religions

Is definition 2 possible? How would/can it be possible? I don't have any answers, just wondering what those of us who frequent GT think of this idea.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Notice #2 begins... Concerned with....

No, it's not possible.

Forgive me....

 

[raffster]

From dictionary.com:



Is definition 2 possible? How would/can it be possible? I don't have any answers, just wondering what those of us who frequent GT think of this idea.

Very possible but it has a lot to do with letting go of EGO and accepting that it is but human nature to DISAGREE.

I personally have moulded my own spiritual path to include born again Christianity, Catholicism and Zen Buddhism. The reason for this is that each group has something to offer that the other group cannot or if it does, not in the manner that I derive meaning from.

I believe that when we start realizing that the more we allow love and compassion to flow in our lives, refrain from focusing on the things that make us different from each other, we as humans will finally be able to live in peace and harmony IN SPITE our differences.

I think that God in all his wisdom and love would want all peoples to come together in peace.

Those who think that unity is not possible -- more especially among Christians -- has violated one of the greatest commandments on how we ought to live our Christian lives: "That you will be known for your love." Indeed, how can our light shine if "unbelievers" see so much discord even amongst ourselves?

 

[secondchance]

From dictionary.com:



Is definition 2 possible? How would/can it be possible? I don't have any answers, just wondering what those of us who frequent GT think of this idea.

I think that believers are already united in Christ for all eternity. We are the "sons" of God and the bride of Christ.

 

[GenemZ]

From dictionary.com:



Is definition 2 possible? How would/can it be possible? I don't have any answers, just wondering what those of us who frequent GT think of this idea.

No, it is not to be.

Nor, should it be!

1.) Its not to be:

2 Timothy 4:3 niv
"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."



​

2.) Nor, should it be!

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 niv
"In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval."




​

If we had a "one Church" tyranny over all? Making sure everyone believed the same things? Then those who had God's approval would feel boxed in and restricted. For Jesus warned that only a few of the many will find the way that leads to the "life abundantly" that he came to give. Many are saved. Few find what the saved are supposed to discover and live in.

Matthew 7:13-14 niv
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."



​

The way the 'many' enter into "the broad and wide" is to be found in the multiplicity of religion (denominations) that were designed to satisfy each of the many variables in human preference.

Its a broad and wide choice! You like to judge others? Here's legalism. You like altruism? Here's another church that appeals to that, etc.

Each denomination has it's "set in stone" form of dogma that resists all correction. For, if corrected? Those who follow a particular denomination would have to deny self, take up their cross, and follow the Word.

"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

What they find can only be "found" by means of inspiration of the Holy Spirit, plus Sola Scriptura.

John 4:23-24 (New International Version)
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."



​

So, if tradition is to be involved? Then all tradition must be placed under the scrutiny of what the Word teaches. It must conform to the Truth. It must be created under the power of the Holy Spirit. Not religious desire.

Mark 7:7-9 niv
"They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"



​

Plain and simple...

That is why there can be no unity in the Church today!

To have unity? Would mean to destroy the freedom of the few that would find God's approval.

And, if such unity were imposed? It would also make the majority feel very uncomfortable. Those who would prefer that their own personal tastes and emotional drives were given free reign, by setting up a Church that makes the Word bow to their preference. How they want to see the Bible presented.

Its not to be according to our preference.

Matthew 16:24 niv
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."



​

Some amongst us by nature are self righteous, control freaks. They do not deny self of this. Instead, these ones seek out a church where they are told they have the authority to rule over all believers in what they are to think.

True unity can only be found in Sola Scriptura. Not all who claim Sola Scriptura succeed. For they base their interpretation upon personal preferences.

Obviously, Unity will never happen as long as God allows for man's free will on this earth. For now is the time of testing men's hearts to see who can be trusted with power and ability in Eternity. We are being tested now, to see what we can be trusted with later on.

1 Thessalonians 2:4 niv
On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel.
We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts."

​

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[JJB]

I think that believers are already united in Christ for all eternity. We are the "sons" of God and the bride of Christ.

That is the tack I take when among unbelievers because it is true that all who belong to God are His. Within Christendom we are free to discuss the topic more narrowly along denominational or church lines, I hope.

 

[JJB]

No, it is not to be.

Nor, should it be!

1.) Its not to be:

2 Timothy 4:3 niv
"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."





​

2.) Nor, should it be!

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 niv
"In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval."






​

If we had a "one Church" tyranny over all? Making sure everyone believed the same things? Then those who had God's approval would feel boxed in and restricted. For Jesus warned that only a few of the many will find the way that leads to the "life abundantly" that he came to give. Many are saved. Few find what the saved are supposed to discover and live in.

Matthew 7:13-14 niv
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."





​

The way the 'many' enter into "the broad and wide" is to be found in the multiplicity of religion (denominations) that were designed to satisfy each of the many variables in human preference.

Its a broad and wide choice! You like to judge others? Here's legalism. You like altruism? Here's another church that appeals to that, etc.

Each denomination has it's "set in stone" form of dogma that resists all correction. For, if corrected? Those who follow a particular denomination would have to deny self, take up their cross, and follow the Word.

"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

What they find can only be "found" by means of inspiration of the Holy Spirit, plus Sola Scriptura.

John 4:23-24 (New International Version)
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."





​

So, if tradition is to be involved? Then all tradition must be placed under the scrutiny of what the Word teaches. It must conform to the Truth. It must be created under the power of the Holy Spirit. Not religious desire.

Mark 7:7-9 niv
"They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"





​

Plain and simple...

That is why there can be no unity in the Church today!

To have unity? Would mean to destroy the freedom of the few that would find God's approval.

And, if such unity were imposed? It would also make the majority feel very uncomfortable. Those who would prefer that their own personal tastes and emotional drives were given free reign, by setting up a Church that makes the Word bow to their preference. How they want to see the Bible presented.

Its not to be according to our preference.

Matthew 16:24 niv
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."





​

Some amongst us by nature are self righteous, control freaks. They do not deny self of this. Instead, these ones seek out a church where they are told they have the authority to rule over all believers in what they are to think.

True unity can only be found in Sola Scriptura. Not all who claim Sola Scriptura succeed. For they base their interpretation upon personal preferences.

Obviously, Unity will never happen as long as God allows for man's free will on this earth. For now is the time of testing men's hearts to see who can be trusted with power and ability in Eternity. We are being tested now, to see what we can be trusted with later on.

1 Thessalonians 2:4 niv
On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel.
We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts."



​

Grace and peace, GeneZ

Those were the verses and thoughts that were rolling around in my head when I posted the OP, but they weren't coherent yet. As in another place here in GT, you beat me to putting it together.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to genez again.

I'd like to conintue hearing from other folks, too, as to what they think about ecumenicism. Step up to the microphone, please.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

It is true that the scriptures genez cite are indicative that there cannot be unity among everyone who calls themselves followers of Christ- for not all truly are who say they are.

It's also true that if we all agreed on what the Holy Scriptures said, we'd have unity on at least one, very important dimension. The question is, how do we get from here to there, especially since so many cannot agree as to who "we" are, where "here is, and where "there" would/will be.

That is to say, so many would exclude this group or that, or blame them, and there is disagreement amongst various groups as to whether there already is a unity.

Some, as genez seems to do, would suggest that to even call for VISIBLE unity is to attempt to enforce ecclesiastical control.

I agree with OUSA, but also appreciate the heart of what Raffster said in this matter.

 

[GraceInHim]

For a moment forget about a church or denomination and think what Jesus said, he said to the Pharisees he they could tare down the temple and build it in 3 days.. what he meant as the gospel of John said was his body.. now let us go to Peter's writings, he said we are little stones and our bodies are temples of God..

we are with God within ourselves, we are all a part of the Body of Christ for we are temples, little stones who follow the right path..

just my 2 cents.. *got that for CJ*

Peace to all

 

[artjack]

perhalps we shouldnt stop trying anyhow, I think the problems are that human beings need proof of everything so we wont be united until jesus returns, Its the differences that caused the splits in the first instance & the difference will remain, I dont see much of a problem with a difference so long as it is kept to the ones to whom it belongs or proven, so long as we have faith in jesus & love for all instead of focusing on differences, the differences should not be a problem.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

The ecumenical movement is an effort to forge unity among religious bodies by emphasis on points of agreement and compromise on points of disagreement. It promotes "union" rather than "unity." Therefore, it would seem, the ecumenical movement has been heavily influenced by liberalism and the social gospel. It does not offer the kind of unity for which Christ prayed (Jn. 17:20-23) and which He commanded (I Cor. 1:10)

And some quotes to ponder:

"I dread much the spirit which would tamper with Truth for the sake of united action, or for any other object under heaven the latitudinarian spirit which sneers at creeds and dogmas. TRUTH IS NO TRIFLE! Not so thought our fathers, when at the stake they gave themselves to death, or on the brown heather of Scotland fell beneath the swords of Claverhouse's Dragoons for truth which men nowadays count unimportant, but which being truths were to them so vital that they would sooner DIE than suffer them to be dishonoured"
- Charles H. Spurgeon

To remain divided is sinful! Did not our Lord pray, that they may be one, even as we are one (Jn 17:22)? A
chorus of ecumenical voices keep harping the unity tune. What they are saying is, “Christians of all doctrinal
shades and beliefs must come together in one visible organization, regardless....Unite, unite!”
Such teaching is false, reckless and dangerous. Truth alone must determine our alignments. Truth comes before
unity. Unity without truth is hazardous. Our Lord's prayer in John 17 must be read in its full context. Look at verse 17: “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” Only those sanctified through the Word can be one in Christ. To teach otherwise is to betray the Gospel.
- Charles H. Spurgeon, "The Essence of Separation"

"Unity must be ordered according to God’s Word, or else it be better war than peace"
- Reformation Martyr Bishop of Worchester Hugh Latimer

"Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the word of God, in favour of that side will be cast the vote of truth."
- Basil of Caesarea

"False doctrine and heresy are even worse than schism. If people separate themselves from teaching that is positively false and unscriptural, they ought to be praised rather than reproved. In such cases separation is a virtue and not a sin."
- J.C. Ryle

"The Church of God needs to remember that fellowship with the Father necessitates separation from those who fail to fulfill the responsibility of fellowship in light. We are not only to yield to love; we are to guard holiness. It is possible to be led astray from the activity of true love by yielding to a false charity. At the very center of love is light. That is not true love which sacrifices doctrine and principle. God has never acted in love at the expense of light."
- William Graham Scroggie


Ray

 

[JimfromOhio]

We are to focus on spiritual matters in the invisible church rather than temporal matters of the visible Church. We who love Jesus Christ constitute the true church. We have become united with all other believers by faith in Christ, who said, "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). Jesus meant He would gather together a body of believers. He wasn't talking about buildings; He was talking about people. We who know and love Him are the living church that has been born into the family of God by the Holy Spirit.

We are to focus on spiritual matters in the invisible church rather than temporal matters of the visible Church. Seeing many threads, many are focusing on visible and temporal views of Church rather than invisible and eternal views of Church.

 

[revrobor]

From dictionary.com:



Is definition 2 possible? How would/can it be possible? I don't have any answers, just wondering what those of us who frequent GT think of this idea.

2 Is possible but not probable as both Satan and man's pride get in the way.

 

[JJB]

true unity can ONLY be found in sola scriptura!!!!

That's a good one.

Sola scriptura has caused more disunity than any other doctrine in Christiandom.

What say you, Scott? Is unity possible or no? NOt sure how to interpet your post as to the OP

 

[JJB]

2 I possible but not probable as both Satan and man's pride get in the way.

As lawyers will often say "anything's possible". I now realize i worded my question poorly.

 

[hoser]

So, if tradition is to be involved? Then all tradition must be placed under the scrutiny of what the Word teaches. It must conform to the Truth. It must be created under the power of the Holy Spirit. Not religious desire.

Mark 7:7-9 niv
"They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!"

​

Why must you quote a verse like this??? Don't you realize that by reading the Bible, it is extremely clear that there are traditions by men that are not allowed, but there are also Traditions handed down by God???

Come on now.

See, the Bible talks about two types of (T) traditions.

1)tradition – human tradition handed down by men and not God
a.Mt 15:2,3,6, Mk 7:3,5,8,9,13, 1Cor 2:13, Gal 1:14, Col 2:8,14, Titus 1:14, 1Pet 1:18

2)Tradition – apostolic Tradition handed down by God
a.Psa 44:1,45:17,77:5,10-11,105:5,143:5, Prov 2:17,6:20, Isa 40:8, Isa 59:21, Mt 28:20, Mk 13:31, Lk 2:19,51, Jn 14:25-26,15:20,27, Jn 21:24-25, Act 2:42, Act 20:35, Rom 12:6, 1Cor 2:13,11:2, 1Cor 15:2, 2Cor 3:2-3, 2Thes 2:14-15, 2Thes 3:6, 2Tim 1:13,2:2,15, 2Tim 3:14, Heb 2:1, 1Pet 1:25, 2Pet 1:20, 1Jn 1:1, 1Jn 2:24, 2Jn 1:12, 3Jn 1:13-14, Jud 1:3, Rev 12:17, Rev 19:10.


​

Read the different verses above and you will plainly see the difference between the two different traditions.

Examples of Apostolic Tradition handed down from God.
“Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” Mat 28:20
“Remember, the word I spoke to you…”Jn 15:20
“And you also testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.”Jn 15:27
“I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.”1Cor 11:2
“This is the covenant with them which I myself have made, says the Lord; My spirit which is upon you and my words that I have put into your mouth. Shall never leave your mouth nor the mouths of you children nor the mouths of your children’s children from now on and forever, says the Lord”Isa 59:21
“Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.”2Tim 1:13
“And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.” 2Tim 2:2
“But the word of God will last forever. And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.” 1Pet 1:25
Read this verse carefully. "In all things I have shown you that by so toiling you ought to help the weak and REMEMBER the word of the Lord Jesus, that Jesus Himself said, 'IT IS MORE BLESSED TO GIVE THAN TO RECEIVE'." Acts 20:35 The word 'REMEMBER', doesn't it mean 'KEEP THE TRADITION'? Here is the important part, try to find where Jesus said, 'IT IS MORE BLESSED TO GIVE THAN TO RECEIVE', in the Gospels. You can't because it isn't there. Paul passed this phrase to thepeople by 'TRADITION'.
What about what John says in Jn 20:30 and Jn 21:25? Everything that Jesus did was not written in the Bible.
False man-made traditions with a lower case (t) are condemned by Jesus in Mat 15:1-9, Mark 7:3-13, 1Cor 2:13, Col 2:8, and *** 1:14. However; Apostolic Traditions are to be preserved. Ph 2:16, 2Thes 2:14-15, 2Tim 1:13-14, 2:2, 3:14, Heb 2:1.

 

[Iollain]

&#8220;Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.&#8221; Mat 28:20



This does not include apparitions.

It includes things like calling noone your father and not consuming blood, but no apparitions.

If people would have cared to crack open a Bible to test these spirits this would not have happened. But then the regular man could not read or own one so they just followed along.

 

[ScottBot]

What say you, Scott? Is unity possible or no? NOt sure how to interpet your post as to the OP

Christian unity is theoretically possible, but wholely unworkable, since people are involved.

 

[hoser]

true unity can ONLY be found in sola scriptura!!!!

That's a good one.
Sola scriptura has caused more disunity than any other doctrine in Christiandom.

Exactly! And how obvious is this???

 

[GeorgeE]

The problem is maturity. You see God wants us to grow up so we can hear spiritually what He is saying. But no we rather listen to our religion. Is it religion or revelation that will bring oneness in Christ (which means anointing).