United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan

[redleghunter]

United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan


What’s Next for United Methodists? Some are gathering to discuss a plan for the denomination to be more welcoming to LGBTQ members.

It’s called the UMCNext Proposal.

A group of progressives angry that the United Methodist Church recently solidified its stance against same-sex weddings and ordaining homosexuals met Thursday night to discuss their plan to try to change denominational policy next year.

The Traditional Plan adopted at this year’s specially-called General Conference kept the bans on same-sex weddings and ordination of gay clergy adopted in 1972.

“That’s a decision a lot of us can’t accept as being in line with our Christian faith,” said the Rev. Henry Gibson, pastor of youth, evangelism and inclusive ministries at Highlands United Methodist Church at Five Points South in Birmingham. “This is not what we think the church is supposed to be.”

They formed a group called UMCNext, and began planning a new strategy for the 2020 General Conference, the denomination’s law-making body that will meet again May 5-15 in Minneapolis.

“In May, right after the 2019 General Conference, a group of centrist, progressive, American Methodists invited 10 folks from every annual conference in the country to discuss where we are,” said the Rev. Brian Erickson, senior pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Homewood, who took part in the meeting in Kansas City, along with Gibson and others. “We agreed the Traditional Plan was not in best interest of the church.”

More at link:
United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

What is the percentage of progressives within the UMC? Do they have the ability to survive without the wider UMC communion? Either way if they can't accept the general consensus which reaffirmed the Christian rejection of Homosexuality then perhaps they are better off just leaving instead of being subversive elements within the main Church.

 

[SkyWriting]

What is the percentage of progressives within the UMC? Do they have the ability to survive without the wider UMC communion? Either way if they can't accept the general consensus which reaffirmed the Christian rejection of Homosexuality then perhaps they are better off just leaving instead of being subversive elements within the main Church.

All sinners should leave all churches immediately!
(That does seem to be the trend.)

U.S. Church Membership Down Sharply in Past Two Decades

 

[SkyWriting]

“That’s a decision a lot of us can’t accept as being in line with our Christian faith,” said the Rev. Henry Gibson, pastor of youth, evangelism and inclusive ministries at Highlands United Methodist Church at Five Points South in Birmingham. “This is not what we think the church is supposed to be.”

Exactly right. People despise diversity in church.

 

[redleghunter]

All sinners should leave all churches immediately!
(That does seem to be the worldwide trend.)

?

 

[Aussie Pete]

United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan


What’s Next for United Methodists? Some are gathering to discuss a plan for the denomination to be more welcoming to LGBTQ members.

It’s called the UMCNext Proposal.

A group of progressives angry that the United Methodist Church recently solidified its stance against same-sex weddings and ordaining homosexuals met Thursday night to discuss their plan to try to change denominational policy next year.

The Traditional Plan adopted at this year’s specially-called General Conference kept the bans on same-sex weddings and ordination of gay clergy adopted in 1972.

“That’s a decision a lot of us can’t accept as being in line with our Christian faith,” said the Rev. Henry Gibson, pastor of youth, evangelism and inclusive ministries at Highlands United Methodist Church at Five Points South in Birmingham. “This is not what we think the church is supposed to be.”

They formed a group called UMCNext, and began planning a new strategy for the 2020 General Conference, the denomination’s law-making body that will meet again May 5-15 in Minneapolis.

“In May, right after the 2019 General Conference, a group of centrist, progressive, American Methodists invited 10 folks from every annual conference in the country to discuss where we are,” said the Rev. Brian Erickson, senior pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Homewood, who took part in the meeting in Kansas City, along with Gibson and others. “We agreed the Traditional Plan was not in best interest of the church.”

More at link:
United Methodist progressives gather to discuss LGBTQ-friendly plan

George Orwell was quite perceptive about how language would be misused. People say progressive when they mean to throw out God's moral requirements and revert to an anything goes policy. That's regressive, not progressive. If anyone wants to know why it seems that the world is such a mess, just read Romans 1.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

All sinners should leave all churches immediately!
(That does seem to be the trend.)

U.S. Church Membership Down Sharply in Past Two Decades

There is a difference between being a sinner and openly practicing and encouraging sin. The Christian feels some shame when they sin and tries to hide it and not flaunt it. They don't act as if it is a good thing that they are committing sin.

Though I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread. The UMC hasn't forbidden Homosexuals from joining the Church. it has merely held up Christian standards for joining the Church and has barred Homosexuals from holding positions in clergy. For good reason too since it appears Homosexual clergy are more predisposed towards illicit sexual activity and thus could become a burden to Church leadership.

 

[redleghunter]

What is the percentage of progressives within the UMC? Do they have the ability to survive without the wider UMC communion? Either way if they can't accept the general consensus which reaffirmed the Christian rejection of Homosexuality then perhaps they are better off just leaving instead of being subversive elements within the main Church.

I’ll have to dig up the results of the national conference from earlier this year. However, it looks as if they conference reinforced the traditional standing of marriage due to a strong showing of the African United Methodists.

Notice in the OP article the progressives make the point they are bringing forward measures the American church should deal with. Meaning in the process the strategy might just be to put the African members as scape goats.

 

[redleghunter]

Exactly right. People despise diversity in church.

It was the African UMC members who torpedoed the same sex language.

 

[redleghunter]

All sinners should leave all churches immediately!
(That does seem to be the trend.)

U.S. Church Membership Down Sharply in Past Two Decades

Don’t see how this is on topic.

Unless you see churches should separate orthodoxy from orthopraxy?

 

[redleghunter]

George Orwell was quite perceptive about how language would be misused. People say progressive when they mean to throw out God's moral requirements and revert to an anything goes policy. That's regressive, not progressive. If anyone wants to know why it seems that the world is such a mess, just read Romans 1.

A very good point. What’s “progressive” means more worldly.

 

[charsan]

What is the percentage of progressives within the UMC? Do they have the ability to survive without the wider UMC communion? Either way if they can't accept the general consensus which reaffirmed the Christian rejection of Homosexuality then perhaps they are better off just leaving instead of being subversive elements within the main Church.

They have to be subversive there is to much hate and pride in their heart to reaffirm there Church. They think they can tell the Church what to do instead of the other way around

 

[Gregory95]

Allowing practicing homosexuals , to think they are not committing sexual immortality is horrific. we must care about their salvation over feelings.

If a homosexual wishes to see what church is like, they SHOULD be welcomed with open arms and treated good!

However

Telling them they can be saved, yet keep their same sex partner and continue in sexual immortality. I fear for the soul of the person who dose this .

I've never seen anyone having sex in church or asking others to join in.
Yours must be wild! Have you ever personally watched gay people having sex?

John 7
24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

1 Samuel 16
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

 

[hedrick]

I've been following events fairly carefully. There are now two main plans, one favored by US conservatives and the other moderates. They are very similar. Both call for a split, with the moderate/liberal wing left with the current organization, but with rules changes so the US has the same independence that the non-US conferences have. That would decouple US-specific issues from the world-wide governance. I believe churches and conferences that don't make any decision stay with the moderate/liberal group in both plans.

I found it interesting that major conservative US leaders are saying they don't even want to inherit the existing structure. Both plans have the pension system and the publishing house serving both groups. In any scenario it's going to be very challenging for the denomination(s) to meet its pension obligations.

Elections for the next general conference have left 3/4 of the US delegates moderate or liberal. Moderate in this context seems to be people who don't necessarily want gay marriage in their church, but who want to coexist with those who do.

The challenge is Africa and Eastern Europe. The second plan has some non-US participation, but people outside the US still aren't involved very much in planning. Some stories say that Africans still want a single, united church that doesn't accept gays. That is not possible. However their opposition could cause problems coming up with any result in the 2020 general conference, unless US delegates are almost unanimous.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that if the 2020 General Conference doesn't do anything, the result effectively will be the second of the plans, but without the rule change. In that scenario liberals would ignore the rule prohibiting gays, and conservatives would withdraw. My reading is that conservatives are slowly withdrawing no matter what, and liberals are slowly moving to ignoring the rule about gays no matter what. That's why I think the outcome is obvious.

 

[hedrick]

I’ll have to dig up the results of the national conference from earlier this year. However, it looks as if they conference reinforced the traditional standing of marriage due to a strong showing of the African United Methodists.

Yes, although it's not entirely Africans. Eastern Europe (though much smaller) has a similar orientation.

Notice in the OP article the progressives make the point they are bringing forward measures the American church should deal with. Meaning in the process the strategy might just be to put the African members as scape goats.

Not sure what this means. It's true that the plans for splits want the US to have the same freedom as the non-US churches. Currently the churches outside the US can adjust the Discipline to fit local needs. The people writing the constitution understood that different regions might have specific problems of their own. Indeed Africa does have such problems (e.g. polygamy). Unfortunately they never envisioned the US becoming a minority, so they didn't make the same provisions for the US. That has to be fixed.

However I don't think anyone wants to scapegoat Africans. All indications are that the moderate / liberal church intends to continue supporting the African churches. I'm not as sure of the conservative wing, but I'd assume the same is true there. No one wants to interfere with African Methodist churches; they just want the Africans to stop interfering with US Methodist churches.

 

[redleghunter]

All indications are that the moderate / liberal church intends to continue supporting the African churches. I'm not as sure of the conservative wing, but I'd assume the same is true there. No one wants to interfere with African Methodist churches; they just want the Africans to stop interfering with US Methodist churches.

I think they have another general council meeting in 2020?

 

[redleghunter]

Answered my own question.

Event: 2020 General Conference (May 05, 2020) - The United Methodist Church

 

[redleghunter]

Allowing practicing homosexuals , to think they are not committing sexual immortality is horrific. we must care about their salvation over feelings.

If a homosexual wishes to see what church is like, they SHOULD be welcomed with open arms and treated good!

However

Telling them they can be saved, yet keep their same sex partner and continue in sexual immortality. I fear for the soul of the person who dose this .



1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

I agree our doors should be open to all to hear the Good News. However, membership in the church is based on obedience.

 

[redleghunter]

I found it interesting that major conservative US leaders are saying they don't even want to inherit the existing structure. Both plans have the pension system and the publishing house serving both groups. In any scenario it's going to be very challenging for the denomination(s) to meet its pension obligations.

I believe the property is an issue which would need to be resolved.

 

[hedrick]

What is the percentage of progressives within the UMC? Do they have the ability to survive without the wider UMC communion? Either way if they can't accept the general consensus which reaffirmed the Christian rejection of Homosexuality then perhaps they are better off just leaving instead of being subversive elements within the main Church.

The consensus in the US Methodist church is that homosexuality should be accepted. 3/4 of the US representatives to the next General Conference are moderate or liberal. Moderate in this context means they're willing to coexist with churches that ordain gays. Furthermore, there is no general Christian rejection. There is a majority rejection of homosexuality only among evangelicals, JWs and Mormons. A majority of Catholics, mainline Protestants, historically Black Protestants, and Orthodox accept it (although their official leadership may not). Views about homosexuality - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics