Unhitching from the Old Testament the Andy Stanley error

Dave L

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I'm no fan of Andy, but he's right if he says the New Covenant (Two Great Commandments) replaced the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments). We only use the ten for commentary and instruction under the New Covenant. But walk in the light of the Two from which the ten hung temporarily.
 
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RDKirk

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JohnC2

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It’s the same as always.

Is it God-breathed? Yes.
Is it true and valid wisdom that is full of blessings from God? Yes

Are there consequences for ignoring God’s wisdom pertaining to the nature of creation? Yes

Are we required to follow it to receive our salvation, atonement, or righteousness? No.
 
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Dave L

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It’s the same as always.

Is it God-breathed? Yes.
Is it true and valid wisdom that is full of blessings from God? Yes

Are there consequences for ignoring God’s wisdom pertaining to the nature of creation? Yes

Are we required to follow it to receive our salvation, atonement, or righteousness? No.
But it is sin to keep the law as they once did because the NT replaced it.
“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
 
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JohnC2

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The point Paul was making was that they *never* were able to keep The Law... Not even in the desert while following The Cloud of Glory with Moses as their guide. Moses himself couldn’t even make it.

Making vows and begging for a holy do-over doesn’t change that fact.

We must remember though that recognizing the Inspirstion of the law and the blessings attached to it is a far cry from expecting to be justified from it. That’s pretty clear.

Nobody gives you extra “Grace
Points” at Bible study for refusing to wash your hands after going to the bathroom.....
 
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spiritfilledjm

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Grace does so much. It eliminated the need to worry about whether we are good enough to enter heaven, reducing it to just having the belief that Jesus is the son of God, died for our sins, and was raised 3 days later. It also enables us to want to live for Jesus, meaning that when we knowingly sin, we feel guilt because every time we throw the gift of grace back in Jesus' face. Grace does not, however, make it to where we can live a life that does not glorify God by sinning constantly, making no effort to change our habits, and going to church on Sunday and asking forgiveness but, again, not feeling any remorse or conviction for how we are living.
 
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com7fy8

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But it is sin to keep the law as they once did because the NT replaced it.
“Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
In the New Testament, there are things of the Law which the New Testament encourages, but not all of it. For example, still we are told not to murder. So, I would say Jesus has fulfilled the Law, but has not totally replaced it with our New Covenant. Also, we bring something like not murdering to a deeper level, of not hating anybody.

So, Dave, I would say technically the New Covenant does not totally replace the Old Testament.

Also, from what our Apostle Paul says in Romans 7:7, I would say the Law is still used by God for people's good, including ours.

And, by the way . . . I think of this > I don't think the Psalms are part of the New Testament, but we feed on Psalms, don't we? The Psalms can be used in a New Testament way, I guess you could say.

We must remember though that recognizing the Inspirstion of the law and the blessings attached to it is a far cry from expecting to be justified from it.
I think it can be risky to make a point of seeking blessings which are named in the Old Testament, because Jesus and His New Testament writers provide us with better blessings and promises, for example through Paul's prayer in Ephesians chapter three.

Jesus says to seek first the kingdom of God, and He does not say to seek the list of blessings in the Law. But we are guaranteed how our Heavenly Father will provide all He knows we need. Plus, Paul says God "gives us richly all things to enjoy," in 1 Timothy 6:17. I keep finding how He gives better than what the Old Testament guarantees, especially personally relating with God in His love and being personally guided in His peace with His creativity, while sharing personally with other Jesus family people.

But I suspect that blessings promised in the early scripture can be taken the wrong way, so someone becomes busy with getting how he or she can be blessed, and is not caring about others as much as himself or herself.

So, in case Jesus wants us to be so blessed, we need how He in us has us fulfilling His blessings the way He desires, and not only for our own purposes :) We need how Jesus has us fulfilling things in His all-caring and family sharing love, in any case :)
 
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Dave L

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In the New Testament, there are things of the Law which the New Testament encourages, but not all of it. For example, still we are told not to murder. So, I would say Jesus has fulfilled the Law, but has not totally replaced it with our New Covenant. Also, we bring something like not murdering to a deeper level, of not hating anybody.

So, Dave, I would say technically the New Covenant does not totally replace the Old Testament.

Also, from what our Apostle Paul says in Romans 7:7, I would say the Law is still used by God for people's good, including ours.

And, by the way . . . I think of this > I don't think the Psalms are part of the New Testament, but we feed on Psalms, don't we? The Psalms can be used in a New Testament way, I guess you could say.

I think it can be risky to make a point of seeking blessings which are named in the Old Testament, because Jesus and His New Testament writers provide us with better blessings and promises, for example through Paul's prayer in Ephesians chapter three.

Jesus says to seek first the kingdom of God, and He does not say to seek the list of blessings in the Law. But we are guaranteed how our Heavenly Father will provide all He knows we need. Plus, Paul says God "gives us richly all things to enjoy," in 1 Timothy 6:17. I keep finding how He gives better than what the Old Testament guarantees, especially personally relating with God in His love and being personally guided in His peace with His creativity, while sharing personally with other Jesus family people.

But I suspect that blessings promised in the early scripture can be taken the wrong way, so someone becomes busy with getting how he or she can be blessed, and is not caring about others as much as himself or herself.

So, in case Jesus wants us to be so blessed, we need how He in us has us fulfilling His blessings the way He desires, and not only for our own purposes :) We need how Jesus has us fulfilling things in His all-caring and family sharing love, in any case :)
Technically, the ten commandments are totally abolished. But the NT uses them for commentary and instruction. The Two Great Commandments fulfill them when observed. Love fulfills the law.
 
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BBAS 64

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Technically, the ten commandments are totally abolished. But the NT uses them for commentary and instruction. The Two Great Commandments fulfill them when observed. Love fulfills the law.


Good Day, Dave

Did you read the article(s)?

In Him,

Bill
 
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Yekcidmij

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The Two Great Commandments fulfill them when observed. Love fulfills the law.

The two great commandments were pulled from the pages of the Hebrew Bible.

Deut 6:4-5 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

Lev 19:17-18 "‘You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."
 
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Dave L

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The two great commandments were pulled from the pages of the Hebrew Bible.

Deut 6:4-5 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

Lev 19:17-18 "‘You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD."
This is fine as long as we know the New Covenant totally replaced the Old as a rule of duty.
 
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Dave L

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In the New Testament, there are things of the Law which the New Testament encourages, but not all of it. For example, still we are told not to murder. So, I would say Jesus has fulfilled the Law, but has not totally replaced it with our New Covenant. Also, we bring something like not murdering to a deeper level, of not hating anybody.

So, Dave, I would say technically the New Covenant does not totally replace the Old Testament.

Also, from what our Apostle Paul says in Romans 7:7, I would say the Law is still used by God for people's good, including ours.

And, by the way . . . I think of this > I don't think the Psalms are part of the New Testament, but we feed on Psalms, don't we? The Psalms can be used in a New Testament way, I guess you could say.

I think it can be risky to make a point of seeking blessings which are named in the Old Testament, because Jesus and His New Testament writers provide us with better blessings and promises, for example through Paul's prayer in Ephesians chapter three.

Jesus says to seek first the kingdom of God, and He does not say to seek the list of blessings in the Law. But we are guaranteed how our Heavenly Father will provide all He knows we need. Plus, Paul says God "gives us richly all things to enjoy," in 1 Timothy 6:17. I keep finding how He gives better than what the Old Testament guarantees, especially personally relating with God in His love and being personally guided in His peace with His creativity, while sharing personally with other Jesus family people.

But I suspect that blessings promised in the early scripture can be taken the wrong way, so someone becomes busy with getting how he or she can be blessed, and is not caring about others as much as himself or herself.

So, in case Jesus wants us to be so blessed, we need how He in us has us fulfilling His blessings the way He desires, and not only for our own purposes :) We need how Jesus has us fulfilling things in His all-caring and family sharing love, in any case :)
The New replaces the old. You cannot put new wine into old bottles.
 
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Yekcidmij

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This is fine as long as we know the New Covenant totally replaced the Old as a rule of duty.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. It seems that in the NC, at least as you see it, the two greatest commands are found in the Pentateuch. Now maybe Jesus selects laws here and there, but at least two laws - which Jesus thought were the greatest laws - are still applicable. So it can't be the case that every law in the Hebrew Bible was eradicated. Jesus thought the two greatest weren't.
 
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Dave L

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I'm not sure what you mean by that. It seems that in the NC, at least as you see it, the two greatest commands are found in the Pentateuch. Now maybe Jesus selects laws here and there, but at least two laws - which Jesus thought were the greatest laws - are still applicable. So it can't be the case that every law in the Hebrew Bible was eradicated. Jesus thought the two greatest weren't.
We are under the Two Great Commandments. We use the obsolete Ten Commandments for commentary and instructional purposes.
 
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JohnC2

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Realize there is a valid reason that Jesus proclaims that until heaven and earth pass away - not one yot or one tittle will be struck from The Law...

That reason is that Jesus death on the cross did NOT undo the fallen nature of creation. God left fallen creation fallen. Jesus proclaims there will be a time in the future where an un-fallen “New heavens and a new earth” will be created. This current Law will not apply to that creation because it is not fallen.

The Law gives us intimate and scientifically correct insight and wisdom for dealing with a fallen creation. We should respect that rather than demeaning it and denying God’s wisdom.

What Jesus blood shed for us did is that God personally took responsibility for the fall of creation and Man’s inability to meet His Holy Standard.

God forgave us for our inability to meet His standard while taking full responsibility for our failure.

That’s big love... Because he didn’t have to do that. No other religion has a god that stoops to accept responsibility for the fall of creation or man’s inability to live up to God’s standard....
 
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Yekcidmij

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We are under the Two Great Commandments. We use the obsolete Ten Commandments for commentary and instructional purposes.

I don't know why The Law = The Ten Commandments. Technically, the Law is Genesis -> Deuteronomy and there are many laws contained within, not simply 10.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Technically, the ten commandments are totally abolished. But the NT uses them for commentary and instruction. The Two Great Commandments fulfill them when observed. Love fulfills the law.
Hi Jesus said he came in the volume of the book it was written of him. He showed the two disciples on the road from the law and prophets and psalms all things written about Him. To toss out the old testament is to remove your foundation and many current warnings and prophecies of things to come.
 
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Dave L

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Hi Jesus said he came in the volume of the book it was written of him. He showed the two disciples on the road from the law and prophets and psalms all things written about Him. To toss out the old testament is to remove your foundation and many current warnings and prophecies of things to come.
We are not tossing anything. We are not under the Law. But as I said, we use it for commentary and instruction. If you place yourself under the law, you deny Christ and must observe all of it. This includes not heating your house when it's 20- on Saturday.
 
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