Unfair Marriage

Puffinstuff

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Let's say you don't believe in God's order of male headship, then it's a 2 way street and the husband doesn't need to love his wife if she doesn't submit to him. Clearly not the case. We are not to replace God's command with our own legalistic rules. (Matthew 15:5-6)

There are never any conditions where God condones being unloving.To anyone let alone your spouse.However there are conditions and examples in the Bible where God does condone not submitting to an authority including a wife to her husband.

No it isn't sin to submit and help/favor someone who is wicked and controlling.

I disagree.Helping/favoring someone to be wicked is enabling them and certainly sin .
 
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Puffinstuff

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Any submission, whatever that might mean in a marriage, is never to a domestic despot. God's principles never condon or facilitate sinful behaviours.

John
NZ

I agree .And I believe submitting to wickedness and controlling behaviors is facilitating it.
 
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I first posted this thread under the Young adults board, but figured this board might lead to more thoughts..

So I've recently been confronted with an extremely frustrating truth about a close newly married friend of mine and am having a real hard time swallowing it. I understand that wives should be submissive to husbands, but I suppose what I'm frustrated is is to say to what degree does that principle stand true. If your husband completely overacts to a small situation and makes a huge decision FOR you that will hurt many of your life long friendships, shouldn't you be able to tell him you disagree and talk about it? Or does submission mean whatever the man says or decides goes?

It seems to me more like slavery.

Thoughts?

Is this a question about submissive marriage or a question about your friend's marriage? If your friend is OK with her husband's choice then it doesn't really matter I guess. Some people have a type of marriage that would make me miserable but they're perfectly happy. If whatever this decision was makes you unhappy but the wife is OK with what her husband does then oh well. She's the one who has to live with him.

Submission in a marriage is a touchy subject. I personally think husbands and wives submit to each other not one to the other. I don't see how my wife could be happy if she had to submit to me all the time and I don't blame her. I don't even want that. Others feel differently. To each their own.
 
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Puffinstuff

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Consider Daniel, who worked in favor of King Nebuchadnezzar. He went along with everything the king and maintained a submissive attitude up until the point where he was supposed to bow down to him.

King Darius held Daniel in high regard and I would go as far as to say he loved him.He was not wicked towards him.Not only that the King was tricked into signing a decree in which the other advisers knew was the only way to get Daniel charged .When Danielle went against the decree the King was desperate to save him.Doesnt sound like he was all too concerned Daniel "disobeyed" except the King was now in a spot to follow through but was heartsick over it and told Daniel may your God rescue you .When God did rescue him he was overjoyed and had the advisers who had set him up thrown into the den themselves and they were eaten by the lions.

Hardly an example of Daniel submitting to a wicked authority who treated him like crap let alone who asked him to sin .IOW bad example.
 
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Puffinstuff

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When it came to a matter of disagreement about which foods should be eaten (which is not sin, but merely a disagreement) he was tactful and offered a test so as to prove it, after which they would eat the way that was healthiest.

[QUOTE3 Now Daniel so distinguished himself among the administrators and the satraps by his exceptional qualities that the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom.][/QUOTE]

The King respected Daniel and trusted him enough to have this in mind for him.Hardly a menu planner /dietician.Not Danielle serving a king who was wicked and controlling over him.
 
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Tom Sawyer

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I first posted this thread under the Young adults board, but figured this board might lead to more thoughts..

So I've recently been confronted with an extremely frustrating truth about a close newly married friend of mine and am having a real hard time swallowing it. I understand that wives should be submissive to husbands, but I suppose what I'm frustrated is is to say to what degree does that principle stand true. If your husband completely overacts to a small situation and makes a huge decision FOR you that will hurt many of your life long friendships, shouldn't you be able to tell him you disagree and talk about it? Or does submission mean whatever the man says or decides goes?

It seems to me more like slavery.

Thoughts?

Many people ask about submission, and sadly you will hear the concept redefined today, almost to the point of being meaningless. The headship of a husband is real authority, and the submission of a wife includes real obedience, just as we show to God, as we show to the government, and as children show to parents. This grates on the modern western ear, but it should not grate on the Christian. It is a good thing to joyfully serve the one that God has placed above you.

Headship and submission in our marriage has, from the start, been starkly spelled out. My wife accepts that I have authority and and she needs to accept my directions and my decisions. She is in her heart a helper. Her attitude to me is to be -- yes -- and never to be -- no. She has been excellent at showing submission, and it has kept our marriage sweet and peaceful, on truly multiple levels.

Naturally, as with any earthly authority, I could never ask my wife to do evil. I have always openly stated that any moral evil I might command can be fairly and respectfully refused. In that sense, only God's authority is perfect, yet I don't think we have ever faced that obstacle, so on a day to day basis, she does not refuse me. She is a submissive wife.

As part of my headship, I naturally care for my wife's needs and wants. Many decisions I ask her counsel on, and I want to know what she things is best. So she functions as an advisor on many, though not all decisions. Her well being, both physically and spiritually is important to me as the head of the home, and my authority is not detached from that, in fact in part it exists for that purpose. I take my wife's spiritual growth, safety and happiness as important goals. I keep in prayer with her regularly, and lead both home worship and Bible reading together.

As far as some practical application of authority, like any authority structure, I do not micro manage what she does nor do I desire to. I set the home rules and routines, but she basically has her own domains that she manages, including in caring for the children, the house, helping in the community and various projects she does. I have an overall supervisory authority over those projects as her husband, but on a daily basis I would never think to jump in there and tell her everything to do. They are her projects. I will on occasion make a change here and there in her domain if it needs to be done, but on a daily basis that does not happen. She manages her projects in her own way, yet under my general authority.

Many people with contemporary values will truly despise much of what I have said, but it is nothing less than the biblical and traditional marriage relationship (albeit in not great detail). Marriage is wonderful or both men and women, because God made us for those roles. I truly feel sorry for those who do not have it. It is God designed and God could never be unfair. It is just.
 
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