Understanding Unorthodox Christians

Anything that does not help us to understand the symbolic analogies of Jesus in the gospels is a waste of time, Consider what timewerx wrote, "It means if you have at least one eye, you will see the truth and the truth will be the light upon you." This is a good example of giving in to the temptation to guess at the meaning of a S.A. before we know what the symbol represents. This is no more accurate than trying to understand it literally or allegorically and is still vague and ambiguous. The "single eye" refers to eliminating all toxins and deficiencies from our diet. Consider also what abysmal wrote, "who do we believe, the serpent or god?" Those who have eyes to see know that it is the serpent because the serpent was right about the eyes of adam and eve being opened to understand good and evil. The god who misinformed adam about dying if he ate the forbidden fruit cannot possibly be GOD the Father of Jesus.

timewerx said:

It means if you have at least one eye, you will see the Truth and this Truth will be the light upon you. But as it is, people are usually blind.

However, the one-eye symbol is also popular in occult symbols, freemasonry, and the despotic nation of Saudi (who also flashes a big 666 in their police cars, infamous for their human rights abuses and failure of their justice system).

The one eye actually symbolizes the chief archon - the chief of evil in our world. Because he can see the Truth and this Truth he hid from us in order to deceive us. Organizations who uses the symbol, worship this evil. The least secretive of them being the Kingdom of Saudi in the Middle East who also has 666 on their police cars and uses Freemasonry logo in their military badge! Interesting huh? Especially with the fact that they are close allies of USA whose founding fathers whom many are Freemasons!

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Sigh...

And, I am not being facetious here, but it is true that the only ways to understand the intricacies of [the Word of] God is 1) through mysticism, or 2) through the Holy Spirit. The former will give you a lot of information and context, but it is disconnected from God spiritually. It is just gnosticism. The holy spirit will give full understanding only.

The eye symbolism is indeed used in occultism and mysticism. And, it does mean enlightenment, the Grand Architect (G of Freemasonry,) the Archon(s), and so on. They are graven images of spirituality, polluted by evil. But, it is not inherently bad (the verse used is about something other than the Eye of Horus enlightenment.)

A lot of books have been hidden, removed, deemed evil, lost, stolen, and destroyed. Even the Gospels say that everything Christ taught cannot fill enough books, so 30 books certainly do not give the whole of Christ's ministry. It would be sort of silly, then, to take a frozen stance on the validity of the substance of the bible since.

I don't know if I would be orthodox. I believe in a literal creation, a literal global flood, a literal exodus and parting of the sea, and so on. But, I don't believe in a rapture, and I don't think he'll is (all) fire and brimstone forever, more of spiritual burning/pain from separation from God. I dont think our generation was the smartest, most medically inclined, technologically advanced, or scientifically forward that has lived - and I am not even talking about Atlantis, or Lemuria. I also think angels mated with humans, and produced literal giants. (Just look at the ancient Greek gods... sure did love human women, didn't they? Their "demigod," not so much. Zeus and Hercules comes to mind immediately, a mimicking of the Christ, since His sacrifice was prophesied in Gen 3:15.)

But, I am also mathematician, and I often talk in allegory and imagery when explaining incredibly difficult topics - like referring to the handedness of neutrinos as a bunny running ahead of itself, and looking back. That makes no sense in real life, and if in 1000 years someone read my notes they most likely would have no idea what I was saying.

Bringing me to my first point: the only way to know would be through some sort of gnosticism, or through the Holy Spirit - that is, if I am not around to answer for myself. Unfortunately, if you do not have the holy spirit, the only way you will "know" is exhaustive, taxing occultism/mysticism/gnosis.

For example, the Star of Baal, later known as the Star of David is a flat-screen view of Metatron's Cube. The baphomet? It is the lower matrix of Metatron's Cube. Metatron's cube, like the Kabbala Tree of Life is one of many thousands of mystic artifacts that claim to hold knowledge. It is literally too much NOT in the canon to argue for its absolute perfection. God's word is perfect; a canon that has been spliced and edited by men maybe not so much.

Ironhold said:

Actually, the LDS faith has produced more than a few scientists and scholars over the years, ranging from Dr. Philo T. Farnsworth (the man credited with developing the modern concept of television) to James E. Talmage (a geologist who was later tapped to become a high-ranking member of the clergy) to Henry Eyering (who pioneered a new field of physics).

In that sense, it's not correct to say that the church is in opposition to science.

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But it still doesn't prove anything in favor of religion. I am also a scientist and an inventor. I worked in the research of an entirely new type of space propulsion technology. I gained a wee bit of popularity among other scientists a decade ago due to my "ground-breaking design" of a new type of space propulsion technology (this is how I got my username)

I am also an amateur astronomer but most of my studies were conducted through the internet and I am specializing in the study of Galaxies - dark matter, structure, processes, and evolution.

This is just to show I am very much a man of science... BUT BUT this doesn't really make us more knowledgeable and more perceptive/sensitive than any other person in the absolute sense.

Have you read about Albert Einstein? The genius who had no idea about his own income tax?? Many of my friends and relatives think I'm a genius because of my past achievements in engineering and science and yet I miserably failed at my career and now I'm poor and I also used to be insensitive and literally dumb at other things.

The reason I accepted religion is probably due to peer pressure and ultimately convinced that we have an eternal fate and we must take care of it. I was aware of the NDE (Near death experiences) which reinforced my belief of hell and to accept all concepts of religion out of fear.

The reason I accepted religion has nothing to do with science. It wasn't until I closely investigated religion itself that I discovered fatal flaws in it. But once I did, and accepted the REAL TRUTH it was the beginning or the reawakening of my spirituality. I already have it as a child, lost it in my adulthood when I took the teachings of the world and false teachings of religion.

At present, I also study spiritual phenomena upon myself and may one day
provide concrete evidence of supernatural phenomena and continuing my research on astronomy. I'm still very much a scientist, only doing things in my free time, not as a career or a profitable venture in any way. I'm doing these as part of my quest to seek the Truth.

single eye said:

Anything that does not help us to understand the symbolic analogies of Jesus in the gospels is a waste of time, Consider what timewerx wrote, "It means if you have at least one eye, you will see the truth and the truth will be the light upon you." This is a good example of giving in to the temptation to guess at the meaning of a S.A. before we know what the symbol represents. This is no more accurate than trying to understand it literally or allegorically and is still vague and ambiguous. The "single eye" refers to eliminating all toxins and deficiencies from our diet. Consider also what abysmal wrote, "who do we believe, the serpent or god?" Those who have eyes to see know that it is the serpent because the serpent was right about the eyes of adam and eve being opened to understand good and evil. The god who misinformed adam about dying if he ate the forbidden fruit cannot possibly be GOD the Father of Jesus.

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As you have said one misses the point when they dont look far enough...one of the mason occultist has said part of controll is to teach the uninitiated that he understands the symbols when in fact he does not.
You have confused death with the body ceasing to function...death is a seperation from life which happened at the moment Adam ate....for life is when we are one with God by Jesus definition...when Adam decided to trust in the oneness of himself he lost oneness with God.
He became his own advesary and passed that same death to us his seed....when Jesus said you are children of your father the devil...did he mean a fallen angel....no satan is Adam and by geneology and inheratance us....for this reason we are told to lean not to our own understanding....and again our way are not his ways.....his ways are above our ways....his ways are life our ways are death. His ways are the perfection of heaven our ways are the corruption of the earth....it is us who steal..kill..and destroy....it is us who were annointed to be a covering for creation....


*[[Isa 14:11-19]] KJV*
%v 11% Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
%v 12% How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
%v 13% For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
%v 14% I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. %v 15% Yet thou shalt be brought
down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
%v 16% They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
%v 17% That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
%v 18% All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
%v 19% But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

The rabbit hole runs deep but this is not the place to discuss it.....YHWH has delivered us from death and restored us to life....so dont eat from the dead to sustain your life

single eye said:

"It means if you have at least one eye, you will see the truth and the truth will be the light upon you." This is a good example of giving in to the temptation to guess at the meaning of a S.A. before we know what the symbol represents.

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This is not a guess. I am alluding to the quote "In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"

Because the one-eyed man can see the Truth. And by controlling this information, he has the ability to control the "blind" masses.

This is the grand purpose of the bad Occult which is to rise above the masses which become your virtual slaves. It is written in the Hermetic Principle which is an important text among the occult circles. It makes such people risen to the ranks of "grand masters" deserving their status for all their "hard work" and the service of the "slave" masses.

And this is what the occult has been doing - controlling information through secrecy and deceit. And this truth they have been concealing is the wickedness of our world. They don't want you to see it, to believe our world is evil and working under evil principles that oppress and abuse people.

This why everything that is related to the occult including fraternities and popular music uses the one-eye symbol. It's the symbol of the control they have over you and over mankind.


Pure, unadulterated Truth doesn't use any symbols.

Ironhold said:

Actually, the LDS faith has produced more than a few scientists and scholars over the years, ranging from Dr. Philo T. Farnsworth (the man credited with developing the modern concept of television) to James E. Talmage (a geologist who was later tapped to become a high-ranking member of the clergy) to Henry Eyering (who pioneered a new field of physics).

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Well, sure. And Emanuel Swedenborg was also a famous scientist...and one of Christian history's most famous mystics, too.

The issue wasn't about individual members of any church but of the nature of the church and its theology.

In that sense, it's not correct to say that the church is in opposition to science.

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I didn't say that it is.

Hi Albion,

Not to argue unnecessarily, Tony, because I know what you're saying...but these unorthodox churches like Christian Science do not have much in common with orthodox Christian denominations, either Protestant or Catholic, EXCEPT in organization.
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Wait!

You missed one of my main points entirely. Which is that many folks tend to believe something is the truth because it is what they were brought up believing. So, a child of what many would consider an unorthodox church, who continues to stay in that community (believing its tenets are closest to “truth”) has much in common with the child of an orthodox church who does the same (meaning: if doing so for reason of familial attachment).

I have actually heard people say, “I was born Catholic, I am Catholic, and I’ll die Catholic!”

And so this particular point really speaks of PEOPLE, regardless of the denomination they remain in (whether it be orthodox or unorthodox).


This means (according to my thinking anyway), there is such a wide spectrum of why someone holds to unorthodox beliefs that I see no other way than to pare down that population. Perhaps paring it down to people who lacked attachments to unorthodox beliefs due to family tradition and rather came to them somewhat independently.

As for me, I was Catholic. I started getting interested in spiritual things and was invited to Bible study with a Baptist. Some months later, I was exposed to certain Adventist beliefs, such as the seventh day Sabbath. For me anyway, the truth of the seventh day Sabbath was (and is) braindead obvious. To put another way, in my opinion, a Sundaykeeper either never got exposed to this issue or has little capacity to glean truth from the Bible, being too bound to other factors.


Now, if this topic excluded those of unorthodox persuasion to those who came to such views independently, having no prior attachments, I suggest the following characteristics.

1. Less prone to believing something because of attachments.

2. Less prone to believing something due to its popularity within Christendom and thus more out of the box thinkers.

3. Discovering that biblical revelation and reason are highly compatible.

4. And related to #2 (there is overlap), continuing in a journey where the justice of God is paramount and the Bible and reason attest to this - pursuing John 17:3.

I think you are saying two things to us: 1) that there are widely different denominations and beliefs lumped together here (which is because CF is mainly for orthodox Christians and no forum is reserved for X unorthodox denomination in the way that there are for Baptists, Lutherans, etc.), and 2) you represent a point of view that's identifiable but not connected to any denomination.
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Not really!

You have a point, but still, I can see why the owners do not feel an obligation to be operating this site in order to be fair to every last person who has religious convictions--including some who, admittedly, are Christian.
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Well, I think it’s wrong to be unfair to anyone (whatever that means in this context), but I have no axe to grind if someone of an orthodox nature who has serious problems with various unorthodox beliefs, simply disallows them to be expressed.

It’s their site!


Blessings,

Tony

Too many corrupt manuscripts were used in the later versions after the KJV. The Westcott and Hort were found in an old monastery in the trash heap. Most of the modern versions stream from them.

The KJV streams from the manuscripts found by Erasmus to be correct, the Hebrew texts have a proving system as to a jot or tittle added or left out!

They exposed themselves, from their own mouths, read,

Westcott and Hort Exposed...FROM THEIR OWN MOUTHS!

However, I do not coerce anyone, God left us all to freely choose.

I have chosen the KJV and you choose as it pleases you.

timewerx, the symbol of the "single eye" represents exactly what I have said and in time you will come to know that it is correct. I have cast out demons by fasting and it follows the rules of good science. Because I know what the demon is and it's source I can prevent it from recurring.

o2bwise said:

Hi Albion,

Not to argue unnecessarily, Tony, because I know what you're saying...but these unorthodox churches like Christian Science do not have much in common with orthodox Christian denominations, either Protestant or Catholic, EXCEPT in organization.
​

Wait!

You missed one of my main points entirely. Which is that many folks tend to believe something is the truth because it is what they were brought up believing. So, a child of what many would consider an unorthodox church, who continues to stay in that community (believing its tenets are closest to “truth&#8221 has much in common with the child of an orthodox church who does the same (meaning: if doing so for reason of familial attachment).

I have actually heard people say, “I was born Catholic, I am Catholic, and I’ll die Catholic!”

And so this particular point really speaks of PEOPLE, regardless of the denomination they remain in (whether it be orthodox or unorthodox).

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I didn't actually miss the point, O2b, but I don't know how it impacts the discussion. It seems to me that it doesn't. That is to say that while it's probably true, it doesn't matter to the topic which is about classifying unorthodox churches/doctrines or what beliefs are classified which way, etc. WHY individuals adhere to them is another subject IMO.

This means (according to my thinking anyway), there is such a wide spectrum of why someone holds to unorthodox beliefs that I see no other way than to pare down that population. Perhaps paring it down to people who lacked attachments to unorthodox beliefs due to family tradition and rather came to them somewhat independently.

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Honestly, it seems to me that we're getting too technical now. The Nicene Creed is the most widely-accepted definition of orthodoxy. If there is to be any such definition, you probably can't beat that statement. The owners of CF want to have it be a place for orthodox Christians to discuss, etc., and while they make a provision for taking up unorthodox beliefs, they do not intend to give them or their adherents "equal time." And as far as this particular OP is concerned, yes, "Primi" wanted to say that there's something awfully broad about the classification, but the purpose behind CF was not to give any unorthodox Christians their own forum like the Baptists or Lutherans have. That's about it.

single eye said:

timewerx, the symbol of the "single eye" represents exactly what I have said and in time you will come to know that it is correct. I have cast out demons by fasting and it follows the rules of good science. Because I know what the demon is and it's source I can prevent it from recurring.

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Nonsense! Jesus did not use an occult symbol, which OBTW, was never explained, to introduce or clarify a Biblical truth. The word transalted 'single" does not mean single in the sense of "only one." It means without folds or twists, i.e. good. The next vs. 23 shows that is the meaning. "But if thine eye be evil" The word in vs. 22 is the opposite of evil not

Hi Albion,

Albion:
it doesn't matter to the topic which is about classifying unorthodox churches/doctrines or what beliefs are classified which way, etc. WHY individuals adhere to them is another subject IMO.

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Topic Title:
Understanding Unorthodox Christians

The topic title is not:
Classifying unorthodox churches/doctrines


Blessings,

Tony

Gibs said:

Too many corrupt manuscripts were used in the later versions after the KJV. The Westcott and Hort were found in an old monastery in the trash heap. Most of the modern versions stream from them.

The KJV streams from the manuscripts found by Erasmus to be correct, the Hebrew texts have a proving system as to a jot or tittle added or left out!

They exposed themselves, from their own mouths, read,

Westcott and Hort Exposed...FROM THEIR OWN MOUTHS!

However, I do not coerce anyone, God left us all to freely choose.

I have chosen the KJV and you choose as it pleases you.

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Your link is rubbish! It claims to quote Life magazine from 1846. News flash! Life did not begin until 1883. Something supposedly quoted from a writing 100 or more years ago which cannot be readily verified by the average person is not evidence of anything.

single eye said:

timewerx, the symbol of the "single eye" represents exactly what I have said and in time you will come to know that it is correct. I have cast out demons by fasting and it follows the rules of good science. Because I know what the demon is and it's source I can prevent it from recurring.

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I know the science behind fasting of getting read of toxicity leading to heightened sensory awareness that may include heightened spiritual awareness. I don't disagree with the findings and the hypothesis.

But fasting isn't the only way and the scientific explanation is not merely the reason. The main reason is the fact you are denying the physical body and its cravings. As the body "dies", the spirit lives.

I have proven it myself both ways, first by fasting and then taking a "cleansing diet" of mostly vegetables, fruits, and fish (no red meat), 2 small meals a day only (so I actually slept with a hungry belly). But then it still worked when I was exposed to a toxic/unhygienic environment due to unfortunate circumstances despite returning to a diet of red meat and eating 3 meals a day. The only common factor I had in those situations is the fact, I'm under less favorable circumstances. The first one is the constant state of hunger, and the latter and presently, my oppressive situation - sleep deprivation, food poisoning, lack of leisure activities, oppressive living conditions, etc. It was like being thrown into prison.

Recently, I was able to cast out an evil spirit that I actually saw without saying a word. In another occasion, a spirit of a woman cast out the evil spirit that was trying to get close to me as I slept. I can see them both in my sleep. She put herself on top of me as if a mother trying to protect her child from danger and it drove the evil spirit away. I even felt her arms and her weight.

These are one of the things about me. I sometimes have full awareness of my surroundings in my sleep and can see everything (including spirits) clearly even if my eyes are closed. I have verified it several times beyond doubt

o2bwise said:

Hi Albion,


Topic Title:
Understanding Unorthodox Christians

The topic title is not:
[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]Classifying unorthodox churches/doctrines


Blessings,

Tony

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That may be the title that was chosen, but I was guided in my reply by whqat was written in the OP.

Well, Albion!!!

I was guided in the entirety of my dialogue by adhering to what the topic is about and not to what it is not!!!

o2bwise said:

Well, Albion!!!

I was guided in the entirety of my dialogue by adhering to what the topic is about and not to what it is not!!!

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I'm sorry, but it's what the writer of the OP says that we normally respond to. Many titles of these threads are only hints or introductions. How many are titled something like "Question," for example? Nonetheless, we all do the best we can to stay on topic.

If you be an orthodox Christian you are one that runs with the flow.

It is unorthodox to not run with the flow. On many points I do not run with the flow and if I went into that in detail the fur would fly.

I'll just lay one. I am not a member of any denominational church structure of men.

I joined this one because Jesus is it's head, organizer and the one who ordains it's teachers. Plus that He guaranteed me it would not be prevailed against by the gates of hell, thus fall into false teachings,

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I for sure will hold to that guarantee!

Gibs said:

If you be an orthodox Christian you are one that runs with the flow.

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That sounds unattractive at first glance, but it's correct, roughly speaking. Orthodoxy is adherence to that which is the genuine or original.

It is unorthodox to not run with the flow.

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Generally speaking, I think that's also true.

On many points I do not run with the flow and if I went into that in detail the fur would fly.

I'll just lay one. I am not a member of any denominational church structure of men.

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None of that is necessarily good, though.

I joined this one because Jesus is it's head, organizer and the one who ordains it's teachers.

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I'd like to see those ordination or installation ceremonies.

Plus that He guaranteed me it would not be prevailed against by the gates of hell, thus fall into false teachings,

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No, that means that false teaching won't "PREVAIL," or win out, not that there will never be any.