Understanding Trinity

[All4Christ]

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages; Light of Light: true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from the heavens, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man; And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried; And arose again on the third day according to the Scriptures; And ascended into the heavens, and sits at the right hand of the Father; And shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life; Who proceeds from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spoke by the prophets. In One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, And the life of the age to come. Amen.

That’s one of the best explanations of our faith, including the Trinity.

 

[tampasteve]

Analogies can be OK to help us understand the Trinity, but they ultimately fall short and lead to one heresy or another, so we must be careful in understanding their limits.

One way can be like using water. You have liquid, ice, and mist. Three different forms, but the same substance.

This is Modalism, the different aspects of H2o being different modes of water.

Or, perhaps, an egg. You have the shell, the egg white, and the egg yolk. Three different parts, but still just one egg.

This is Partialism or Tritheism, depending on how we are positioning the eggs parts.

Or you can take a three-pronged fork and stick it through a piece of paper up to the point the prongs begin. From below you see the three prongs. But, from the other side, you see that it is one fork.

This is partialism too.

As @All4Christ says above, the Trinity cannot be fully comprehended by our human minds...these analogies are helpful in partially understanding it, but we must acknowledge their shortfalls.

 

[tampasteve]

I posted the Athanasian Creed back on page 1, but I think that it bears repeating again as it is the most comprehensive and widely agreed upon definition of the Trinity. It is a bit long, but it is also about as succinct as we can be when trying to describe something so complex. Almost all Trinitarian Christian denominations and groups agree upon it.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.​

 

[DominicBaptiste]

How do you explain the concept of Trinity
To a child even someone that has a hard time understanding it?

God lives in Heaven and sent his son Jesus to lead and teach, and after Jesus died on the cross and went to Heaven, he sent back the Holy Spirit to earth so that his followers could still access his divine presence. By the way, I found out recently that John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit before Jesus died and sent it back.

 

[All4Christ]

I posted the Athanasian Creed back on page 1, but I think that it bears repeating again as it is the most comprehensive and widely agreed upon definition of the Trinity. It is a bit long, but it is also about as succinct as we can be when trying to describe something so complex. Almost all Trinitarian Christian denominations and groups agree upon it.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.​

Agreed. I would say though that the shorter creeds would be a true expression of faith, though perhaps easier for young children to comprehend initially Learning the early creeds are one of the best ways to gain a good comprehensive understanding of trinitarian orthodox theology. Perhaps it depends on the age of the child for how much you can / should explain the Trinity in detail? Of course, as the child grows in comprehension, he / she should learn the fullness of the creeds and faith, including the more detailed understanding of the Trinity, whether it be from the Athanasian Creed, Apostolic Church Fathers, etc.

 

[tampasteve]

Agreed. I would say though that the shorter creeds would be a true expression of faith, though perhaps easier for young children to comprehend initially Learning the early creeds are one of the best ways to gain a good comprehensive understanding of trinitarian orthodox theology. Perhaps it depends on the age of the child for how much you can / should explain the Trinity in detail? Of course, as the child grows in comprehension, he / she should learn the fullness of the creeds and faith, including the more detailed understanding of the Trinity, whether it be from the Athanasian Creed, Apostolic Church Fathers, etc.

100% agree

 

[All4Christ]

God lives in Heaven and sent his son Jesus to lead and teach, and after Jesus died on the cross and went to Heaven, he sent back the Holy Spirit to earth so that his followers could still access his divine presence. By the way, I found out recently that John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit before Jesus died and sent it back.

There are some theological errors here. It’s not good to try to simplify things by introducing incorrect theology, even if it is easier to understand. Some critical things missed are the resurrection - the core of the Christian faith and of salvation, the fact that Jesus is God - of one essence with the Father, and the part of about John having the Holy Spirit and “sending it back” certainly isn’t accurate. John wasn’t unique in this either.

We can identify the core concepts of Christianity, but we need to be very careful how we do that.

ETA: “Sending it back” as in John sending it back isn’t right. You are right that John and others were filled with the Holy Spirit before the death and resurrection of Christ, but they certainly didn’t send it back to God themselves.

 

[tampasteve]

By the way, I found out recently that John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit before Jesus died and sent it back.

Good point, the HS did go into people in the OT too, but it was not permanent as it is now that Jesus made His sacrifice and resurection.

 

[Senkaku]

Trinity is a tough one to understand. I like to use water as an example, that seems to work most times. Water can take form as a liquid, gas or solid, but it's all still water. Just focus on the heart of the matter rather than the details. Jesus was about the principles, the pharisees were about the details.

 

[Ματθαίος]

How do you explain the concept of Trinity
To a child even someone that has a hard time understanding it?

Don't try to explain the unexplainable. Simply believe. It's enough. It's what God wants us to do, kids or adults.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Don't try to explain the unexplainable. Simply believe. It's enough. It's what God wants us to do, kids or adults.

But if you don’t understand something at least somewhat how do you believe in it. I believe understanding God and his word is essential.

 

[Ματθαίος]

But if you don’t understand something at least somewhat how do you believe in it. I believe understanding God and his word is essential.

Yes. Understand as much as you can.

 

[All4Christ]

But if you don’t understand something at least somewhat how do you believe in it. I believe understanding God and his word is essential.

Of course it is important to understand yet we also should acknowledge that we see through a glass darkly. Eventually all will be made known. In the meantime, accepting that some things in Christianity are a mystery to us and that we may not have full comprehension is a very important concept.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Of course it is important to understand yet we also should acknowledge that we see through a glass darkly. Eventually all will be made known. In the meantime, accepting that some things in Christianity are a mystery to us and that we may not have full comprehension is a very important concept.

But understanding that the Bible emphasizes knowing who God is is important too

 

[Uber Genius]

People like to stick labels on other people, but I believe my analysis is correct, and I suspect the majority of Christians who have given this much thought agree with me. I don't believe there are three Gods.

You are representing an early second century heresy known as modalism.

Tampasteve gently pointed that out above and you apparently refused to do even 1 minute of research.

Modalism is false and the early church fathers argued from the scriptural evidence to make their point.

Prophecies about the father sending a messiah are all representing the Father sending another (not himself or himself playing another role).

Who is Jesus praying to all the time, himself? Is he scizophrenic?

Jesus teaches about the roles and they overlap, Jesus sends the HS at Pentecost he doesn't send himself.

These are a mere fraction of arguments the antenicene church fathers used to determine modalism as heretical.

For more info: look up sebelianism or modalistic monarchiasm occurred circa first 1/4 of the 3rd century CE

 

[All4Christ]

But understanding that the Bible emphasizes knowing who God is is important too

Certainly. My point is that there is a balance.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Certainly. My point is that there is a balance.

i agree good point

 

[Uber Genius]

When you put a label on someone, you are saying you are smarter than they are.

Why continue to recast what other people are saying (putting words in their mouths) in order to appeal to people's emotions. This is a rhetorical trick and not an attempt to understand or converse on your part.

Stop the propaganda and identity politics please and just engage the Biblical and historical data in at conversation that seeks to gain understanding not demonize people trying to help you.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Why continue to recast what other people are saying (putting words in their mouths) in order to appeal to people's emotions. This is a rhetorical trick and not an attempt to understand or converse on your part.

Stop the propaganda and identity politics please and just engage the Biblical and historical data in at conversation that seeks to gain understanding not demonize people trying to help you.

calling someone's view a heresy though doesn't help.


Coming from the perspective of a young person who goes to college and has to deal with...different views...atheism often enough. You don't persuade people by calling their view or (lets say they are Christian actually) there perspective a heresy that turns them off right away. I learned that early on. What you should do starting out is address the substance of the argument itself and convince them something is wrong first. Just starting out with dude your gay and that's a sin or whatever the issue may be is just yeah.


It's best that you respect what they are saying but show them why they are wrong...or why you believe they are wrong (who knows you could be wrong about something especially if they are a Christian also and it's just a perspective issue).

 

[NW82]

Past, Present, Future...all terms even a child can understand. What do we call those three terms? Time. This is the simplest analogy I've ever seen and there is no paganism or anything else drawn into it.