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Understanding Pro-war Christians' Indifference to Civilian Deaths

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Word of Peace, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. Word of Peace

    Word of Peace Evangelical Quaker, YEC

    +35
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    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Why Are Some American Christians So Bloodthirsty?

    I think this article gives an excellent synopsis of why some American Christians support a pro-war stance despite its cost in innocent lives. The sidelining of Jesus' teachings - or disregard of them altogether - in their lives causes them to embrace moral relativism, and therefore, they do not object to the harm done to others if it does not negatively affect them. This is the essence of selfishness.

    Note that I do not agree with the author's views on spanking (which she mentions briefly in the article), but that is a topic for another thread.
     
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  2. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

    +4,693
    Atheist
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    I see many Christian and non-christians alike that are very saddened by the loss of Iraqi civilian lives. I even know Christians who prayed for the Iraqi soldiers that fought for Saddam.

    Maybe its the area I live in, but the pro-war people here, while very vehement about destroying the enemy, are very concerned for the civilian lives being lost overseas.
     
  3. crazyfingers

    crazyfingers Well-Known Member

    +318
    Atheist
    Married
    US-Democrat
    Moral relativism in no way leads to a disregard of the harm done to others. You might note that geneally speaking, liberals have been most opposed to Bush's war and also generally speaking, liberals accept moral relativism more reasily than do conservatives.

    I accept moral relativism but in no way support Bush's war on Iraq in many ways because of the innocents who have been killed.

    So I sugest leaving moral relativism out of the analysis as it does not lead to an acceptance of wars started by the US. To blame moral relativism is just one more attempt to blame the problems of the world on those who do not accept rigid dogmatic and authoritarian religions.
     
  4. Entertaining_Angels

    Entertaining_Angels Well-Known Member

    +522
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    Married
    I pray constantly for the lives of the Iraqis and know many folks who do. What I don't understand is the people who think nothing of all the bodies being uncovered in mass graves or all the women who were raped by Saddam's regime or all the people tortured by his thugs or the use of chemical weapons against his own people. Each death, civilian or soldier breaks my heart. Maybe I am biased though. I saw footage in the 90's of what was happening and it haunts me to this day.

    I am a Christian. I am not blood thirsty. Without even taking a look at the article, I've no doubt it is filled to the brim with prejudice and bias. I think I'll pass on this one.
     
  5. Whyzdom

    Whyzdom Biblicist

    +138
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    US-Republican
    Likewise I won't be reading it. I don't agree with war and I pray everyday that it ends quickly. With that said, We can't sit idly by and let a murderer... correction... a mass murderer... with zealot followers... to continue murdering... raping... opressing... people that just want the same thing we have been taking advantage of for the past 200+ years.

    Unfortunately, things are going to continue to escalate. No matter what we do, things are predicted to escalate. Predictions can be wrong, but not Biblical Predictions. They haven't been wrong yet in the 2000+ year history of the Bible.

    God Bless.
     
  6. wojo1989

    wojo1989 New Member

    66
    +0
    Christian
    Wow, were to start. I think its better that I do not on this one, but I will touch a few points. In my opinion that is one of the worst articles I have read. Not because of the topic but because of the broad assumptions made by the author.

    I was particularly taken by the part titled: "Failure to Care: How it Happens" and the 5 point plan laid out.

    1. All I hear from the liberal media is how the war is failing and how many civilians were killed today in such and such attack.
    2. I have not been "brain washed" into thinking I must submit to the Government
    3. Life in flesh is important for those who are not saved!!
    4. The Left Behind Series is a fiction novel and not a guide to the end times lol
    5. And no man is greater than the Word of God and we must capture all thoughts and make them submissive to Him.

    Just my PERSONAL answers to those points.

    Steve
     
  7. Ave Maria

    Ave Maria Ave Maria Gratia Plena

    +1,544
    United States
    Catholic
    Engaged
    US-Republican
    :amen: I agree OreGal. Just because someone was not against the war does not mean that they are blood thirsty or indifferent to the lives of civilians. I am sure that there are many people out there who were not against the war but who are just like you in that they pray for the lives of the Iraqis and other civilians in Iraq every day. I pray for them and I did not like the idea of the war either.
     
  8. HisEagle

    HisEagle Senior Veteran

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    That article was absolutely BRILLIANT! It stated EXACTLY why I feel the conservative Christian attitude is WRONG with respect to their support of this war, as well as their support for the Bush administrations. The man professes to be a Christian, and conservatives blindly follow him - but he doesn't have any real Christian values at all, in my opinion.

    You really ought to read it. You might be surprised by what it says. Don't be thrown off by the way this thread is titled. ;)
     
  9. myutmost4him

    myutmost4him Just A Wee Servant

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    One thing that stands out to me in this article is the statement that these Christians just blindly follow whatever George Bush says and does. What a ridiculous assumption. If she disagrees with the stance of these Christians, then fine but don't insult them because their view differs from her own. Maybe these Christians support Bush's actions because they agree with him.
     
  10. alonesoldier

    alonesoldier Senior Veteran

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    some people just dont get the big picture, 'none of the above' is not an option, history proves the best deterent is a readiness for war. And when war is inevitable it becomes a choice of whoses civilians get killed. However, this is the first time in history where because of technology the guilty had more to fear than the innocent.
     
  11. Philosoft

    Philosoft Orthogonal, Tangential, Tenuously Related

    +170
    Atheist
    That's fine, but if we're going to take on the role of world anti-bad-dictator and democracy police, we need to be honest and forthright with not only the world, but also ourselves.

    I don't wanna hear how the end justifies the means anymore unless we intend to start employing that means-end philosophy across the board. Not just poor, uneducated states that we think probably won't put up much of a fight, and whose overthrow has strategic, economic advantages.
     
  12. Ave Maria

    Ave Maria Ave Maria Gratia Plena

    +1,544
    United States
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    I agree. Most people that I know, conservative or not do not totally agree with any politician.
     
  13. Doctrine1st

    Doctrine1st Official nitwit

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    US-Others
    Kind of noticed not one Christian responded to the OP from the perspective of Jesus, you know the teachings to be followed and the point of being a Christian, other than, well, we'll pray for them.
     
  14. myutmost4him

    myutmost4him Just A Wee Servant

    93
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    Ah... once again the old "all or nothing" argument. Haven't seen ya for a while, how you been?

    You know I think this philosophy is soft,

    We can't feed all the starving people in the world so we should feed any
    We can't adopt all orphans so we shouldn't adopt any
    If we can't cure all disease then we shouldn't try to cure any
    We can't stop all the terrorists coming into our countries so we shouldn't try to stop any

    The question is never if you can do everything, it's just about doing something and doing what you can. As Christians we know that we can't reach everybody, but we try to reach some or even one.

    In regards to policing the world, each situation needs to be evaluated seperately. Different strategies are needed for dealing with different situations. You can't (or shouldn't) just use simple blanket policies for every situation. I'm sorry, but the argument that because the US went into Iraq to depose Saddam now means they have to do it everywhere is quite simplistic and quite ridiculous. What is too bad is the fact that the job has fallen to the US instead of the UN. Anti-Bush people always talk about oil and economic reasons for going into Iraq even though unsubstantiated, but never talk about the members of the UN who opposed the US taking action on Iraq in favour of the status quo which would allow them to continue making billions of dollars through trade and the oil for food policy, which is substantiated.
     
  15. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

    +4,693
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    But we HAVE talked about this. This is why NOT to barge into Iraq. How would you feel if a country wanted to attack a place your nation has serious economic ties to. How would you react to them costing you BILLIONS of dollars, all while they are using the war on terror as a cover for their personal vendattas and special interests? You would be angry, you would oppose it with every fiber of your being. If you didn't, you wouldn't be fit to represent a nation.

    If that same area you were invested in starting developing WMDs however, your tone might change very very quickly. It's fun and game until your cash cow can blow you up. But hey there was a large superpower stomping around earlier looking for an excuse to attack this country, why have them put them under control for us, they want to do it anyhow.

    Iraq's threat was monstrously exaggerated. They had half the world looking over their shoulder, and they weren't capable of much of anything to begin with.
     
  16. ChrisB803

    ChrisB803 Well-Known Member

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    I just have one comment for those who feel the war in Iraq is an unjust one, or that Christians are "blood thirsty" because they support that war: Was the American war for independance from the British an unjust war? How about our war to stop the murderous rampage of a madman named Adolf Hitler? Should we give America back to Britain and say we're sorry? Should we insist that France now be considered part of Germany and apologize to the remaining Nazis in the world?
    For those of you who see war as unjust, please feel free to leave your property to your local Indian neighbor, because Lord knows if anyone had their land stolen it was them.

    All of the major military conflicts in history could be said to be unjust and bloody in one way or another. Christians certainly are not in any rush to seek destruction of life, but we understand the value more than most of freedom. No other group of people has suffered more throughout history because of the way they believe, save for the Jews. No other group of people understands more than Christians that the greatest right humanity has is that of being free.

    You can cry about civilian losses during war all you want, but it isn't the men with the United States flag on their shoulders that hide behind women and children, that blow up bombs in the middle of children receiving handouts of candy, that ambush people simply trying to make a better life for themselves. It isn't our soldiers who TARGET civilians. We spend billions and billions of dollars on new technologies that allow us to strike accurately in order to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible, rather than simply strapping bombs onto our chests and running into the middle of a crowded cafe somewhere.

    Please, people, just try and look a little father down the road for once, and realize that there is more at stake here than Iraq, more than Afghanastan... This is a bid for freedom for a whole society that has lived countless years under the iron fist of tyranny and terror.

    For those who have sacraficed their lives in the pursuit of this "bloodthirsty" pursuit, GOD BLESS YOU!!
     
  17. Doctrine1st

    Doctrine1st Official nitwit

    +431
    US-Others
    Not really a war history buff, but it may be really kind of tough to compare the Iraq war with defending one's self for independence, and in his allience with Japan in our defense to Pearl Harbor, Hitler declaring war on us.

    Bless you as well.
     
  18. Peso

    Peso Well-Known Member

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    A bid for freedom, but at what cost...ours ??? We talk of freeing the world from tyranny and yet watch our liberties stripped away. This disturbs me!

    and for anyone who possibly thinks I slant my way of thinking because I am anti-Bush (which I am by the way), first let me tell you that I voted the man in, and I intend to vote him out. My ideas changed when the facts presented to me changed. I am guilty - I flip-flop!

    To the original post, I doubt any real Christian is blood-thirsty. It seems we, as a country, are at a cross-roads between moral dilemmas...hmmm, which poison should I choose today - cyanide which is relatively quick or arsenic, which will let me live a bit longer *shrugs*
     
  19. Western Deity

    Western Deity you know how it is

    +131
    Seeker
    *Grins @ OP*

    Somebody has no idea what moral relativism is :p...
     
  20. Whyzdom

    Whyzdom Biblicist

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    I read it right after I said I wouldn't.. I pulled a Kerry.

    I think it is full of fallacy and is more biased than Michael Moore's movie Fahrenheit.
     
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