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Undermining prayer?

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JAS4Yeshua

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I had to start this thread, because I saw this statement made in another thread. If someone doesn't have the same faith, then that person's prayer will undermine another person's prayer.

Not only do I personally find that statement ridiculous, I don't see anything Scripturally valid about it. Unless one is saying that a person who's faith is different isn't righteous, of course.

Matthew 6:5-8 NKJV
"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him."

Luke 1:1-4 NKJV
Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." So He said to them, "When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one."

Luke 18:9-14 NKJV
Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Acts 2:42 NKJV
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Romans 8:26-28 NKJV
Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Romans 12:9-13 NKJV
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.

Philippians 1:19-20 NKJV
For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, according to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death.

Colossians 2:2-4 NKJV
Continue earnestly in prayer, being vigilant in it with thanksgiving; meanwhile praying also for us, that God would open to us a door for the word, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in chains, that I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 NKJV
Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

1 Thessalonians 5:25 NKJV
Brethren, pray for us.

2 Thessalonians 3:1-2 NKJV
Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, just as it is with you, and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for not all have faith.

Hebrews 13:18 NKJV
Pray for us; for we are confident that we have a good conscience, in all things desiring to live honorably.

James 5:13-16 NKJV
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

These are just some of the New Testament verses relating to prayer. There are none that state anything about prayers being "undermining." Paul several times asks for others to pray for him. Even those with little faith, for his letters were often directed to those who had little faith.

Will a prayer undermine another prayer? No. God never states anything of the sort. Will anothers supposed "lack of faith" cause a "crossing of signals" that would stop God from working? Nothing in Scripture supports that.

If you don't want another person to pray for you, that is your right. But to say that it is because another person will "undermine" your prayers is, IMO, like the pharasee in Jesus's parable, who says "Thank God, I'm not like this other person."

I challenge someone to show any differently, from the appropriate Scriptural context, where it says that having someone "lacking faith" or "differing levels" will "undermine" another person's prayer. And I do acknowledge that it does say we need to have faith, without doubting, but that doesn't mean if one person has doubts, it will affect another's prayers.
 
C

Christina M

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What do you do with these scriptures?

Matthew 18:19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Amos 3:3
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?




Many of those you listed assume agreement... that you are like-minded. None of them says you must ask someone who does not believe it is always God's will to heal to pray for you.
 
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JAS4Yeshua

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They don't show that prayer can be undermined if someone has a different "level" of faith. For that matter, what makes you think two people can't be in agreement and yet have differing "levels" of faith?

If you believe God will heal you, and I pray for God's will in your healing, aren't we still in agreement for your healing?
 
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Tamara224

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They don't show that prayer can be undermined if someone has a different "level" of faith. For that matter, what makes you think two people can't be in agreement and yet have differing "levels" of faith?

If you believe God will heal you, and I pray for God's will in your healing, aren't we still in agreement for your healing?


Exactly. If I say "God's will be done" and you believe "it is always God's will to heal" then, aren't we just asking for the same thing?
 
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Br0kenSunshyne

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I"m with ya Jas. If that is true, then new believers should never pray for anyone cause they don't have very much faith. And I like praying for people. So anyone who thinks I dont have enough faith t o pray for them can....love me for me (nice save)!
 
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jeolmstead

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Jesus did not allow any of the ones who thought the young girl was dead to enter the house with Him, except Peter James and John.

They had unbelief, So Jesus kept them out while He raised the girl up. Mark 5:35-43
No where in this passage does it say that:

37He did not let anyone follow him except Peter, James and John the brother of James. 38When they came to the home of the synagogue ruler, Jesus saw a commotion, with people crying and wailing loudly. 39He went in and said to them, "Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep." 40But they laughed at him.
After he put them all out, he took the child's father and mother and the disciples who were with him, and went in where the child was. 41He took her by the hand and said to her, "Talitha koum!" (which means, "Little girl, I say to you, get up!" ). 42Immediately the girl stood up and walked around (she was twelve years old). At this they were completely astonished. 43He gave strict orders not to let anyone know about this, and told them to give her something to eat.

It does say:

Jesus saw a commotion, with people crying and wailing loudly

(Kinda of hard to do anything in that environment, he had to clear the room)


he took the child's father and mother

(Apparently according to your theory that had more faith then the rest of the disciples, what about their unbelief?)


43 He gave strict orders not to let anyone know about this, and told them to give her something to eat.

(Apparently Jesus did not want this event talked about, One can easily make the argument that this is why he limited the access to it)

John O.
 
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peacechild4

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I think it was very wise and courageous considering the flack one gets when they take such a stance.. Someone who is not believing or in faith.. is not going to get what they are praying.. So why ask these to pray?

James 1:5-7
But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord
 
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Strong in Him

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I believe God hears even the most faltering and desperate prayers. He doesn't require us to be at a certain level of faith or optimism before we admit a need and ask for his help. He will not break a bruised reed or snuff out a smouldering wick.

At least one person said to Jesus "IF you want to, you can ..... " Jesus didn't say "sorry, you've just blown it by doubting that I might want to do something for you. Too bad, try again when you've got a bit more faith." The man might have had doubts, but he took his doubts and went to Jesus anyway - not a soothsayer, or witchdoctor - Jesus. Another man said to Jesus "I do believe, help me in my unbelief."
So we don't have to be perfect before we ask for his help.
 
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JAS4Yeshua

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I believe God hears even the most faltering and desperate prayers. He doesn't require us to be at a certain level of faith or optimism before we admit a need and ask for his help. He will not break a bruised reed or snuff out a smouldering wick.

At least one person said to Jesus "IF you want to, you can ..... " Jesus didn't say "sorry, you've just blown it by doubting that I might want to do something for you. Too bad, try again when you've got a bit more faith." The man might have had doubts, but he took his doubts and went to Jesus anyway - not a soothsayer, or witchdoctor - Jesus. Another man said to Jesus "I do believe, help me in my unbelief."
So we don't have to be perfect before we ask for his help.
:amen: Exactly. :thumbsup:
 
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charityagape

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None of it changes the fact that if you do not believe God's will is ALWAYS healing then how can I ask you to pray for my healing???????

You would be an double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
I wouldn't ask someone who didn't know if it was God's will to heal to pray for me............however, I wouldn't care if they did pray "wrongly" for me because I don't think their lack of faith can impact my faith. Especially if we're not praying together. Now I certainly wouldn't want them coming into my child's hospital room and praying some nonsense like, "Lord, if it be your will to take this tender flower to heaven with you now pray give us all strength to cope blah blah blah blah.........." But if they were somewhere praying this nonsense I don't think it would effect the fervent prayers of those who know and understand that it is ALWAYS God's will to heal.
 
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ahmunmun

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None of it changes the fact that if you do not believe God's will is ALWAYS healing then how can I ask you to pray for my healing???????

You would be an double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

Yes, he who doubts would be a double-minded man, but how does his prayer negatively affect the prayer of the ones who believe? If anything, he wouldn't receive anything he prayed for because he doubted.

Are you worried that someone who doesn't believe in healing will pray against you, asking God not to heal you so that you will learn a lesson?

If that is the case, I wouldn't worry about it because God doesn't respond to prayers that cause harm to someone because that would be against His will.

Other than that, I don't see how two Christians with different views on healing could pray contrary to each other's prayers. I used to go to a very conservative church where people didn't believe in dramatic miracles (i.e., instantaneous healing, walking on water, dead coming back to life, etc). When I asked them to pray to God regarding my brother's autism, they would pray that my brother would just "get better," because they don't believe in total healing. However, I now go to a Charismatic church where people would actually pray that my brother would receive complete healing. Even though I believe that these people's prayers contain more faith, I don't see how people in my old church prayed anything that would undermine the prayers of people in my new church.
 
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JAS4Yeshua

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Again, no one has answered the question of the OP, or been able to rise up to the challenge. The truth is, there is absolutely no Scriptural support for the idea that another person's prayer can undermine our own prayers. That is a false belief that some of us are letting ourselves believe.

Again, I'm not telling anyone who they should or should not get to pray for them. That is between that person, God, and those in their prayer circle. If there are only a select few that are trusted to pray "correctly," so be it. But please don't go around boasting that you are "better" in your prayers, or that another person's prayers will "undermine" your own. That type of statement and attitude is comparable to the Pharisee who went into the temple praying "Thank God I'm not like this other man." I know that none of us want to be that way when it comes to our relationship with others and with God. I know we would all rather be the humble tax collector saying "Have mercy on me, a sinner." So, please bear that in mind.
 
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he4rty

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Something from a while back but it spoke to me.
praying against the spirit
, rather than against someone else.


Something interesting from last night at church, the discussion was on prayer and it was stated that...........

Quote:
(Rom 8:26) Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

(Rom 8:27) And He searching the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
That we could pray our prayer lists or ABC's then enter a time of Spirit prayer and be contradicting what we may have just prayed for because the Spirit knows our hearts and the will of God more than we do.

And yes I would believe it to be possible to not be in agreement with someone in prayer and then the pray not seeing fruition. How out of agreement you can be, well only God would Know.


 
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HephzibahBenJudah

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Only thing I can say to that at all is there needs to be more love and unity in the body of Christ and maybe what they meant to say was how can two walk together unless they agree. So when it comes to prayer, maybe they are saying they are looking for like-minded individuals to agree with on earth, to pray to effect a change they are looking for.

:groupray:
 
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