Unconditional love vs. boundaries?

[quintessentialramble]

So, I'm kind of in a situation where the pastor said he's teaching his family boundaries. I'm kind of confused on this, because from my perspective, it seems more like a tactic to use so that they don't have to talk to people they don't want to talk to. In some regards, i can understand this...there are some situations that can be really threatening, but then I also see unconditional love, where no matter the sin, you forgive that person, and I'm really confused. I feel like the boundaries are being put in place so that they don't have to talk with me about what's going on. The only reasoning I got from the pastor was that I have to take responsibility for myself, which is really confusing. To some degree it's true, but he won't be specific with me, he just speaks in terms that leave me more confused. From my perspective, since they won't talk with me, it just seems like his family thinks I'm annoying so they don't want to talk to me anymore. I could be making that in my mind, but without explanation...I haven't been to that church in about a month and a half, and they haven't reached out to me...I feel really hurt by how things ended and their refusal to communicate what the issue is. I also feel hurt that they refuse to forgive me

 

[Doug Melven]

My first thought was, "What are these boundaries"? Boundaries are good for the immature.
Then I thought the boundary might be for his children not to talk to strangers. Another good boundary for children.
But you were attending that church so you shouldn't have been a stranger.

This might be hard advice, but if they didn't seek after you after being gone for 6 weeks, I am not sure how much love is in that church and you would probably be better off finding another place to worship.

If I miss a week, I have people calling me making sure everything is ok.

 

[ValleyGal]

Human relationships are reciprocal; there is no "unconditional love", meaning there are implied expectations, though I do believe that sin needs to be forgiven. This is much easier when the offending party actually confesses their sin to those he or she offended, and asks forgiveness. If you have offended your pastor, do you know how, and have you acknowledged this and asked forgiveness? Even if you have been forgiven, it does not mean that they need to put themselves into the same position to be re-offended.

Boundaries are all about love. I suggest going to the library, or to a church library, and take out the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. They do a good job of explaining boundaries, and why they are necessary in relationships for real love to blossom. Bottom line is that your pastor needs to love his family first, before extending love to others. In addition, love need not be up close. Sometimes loving someone means maintaining some distance from them.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

Is there much of an age difference between you and the pastor's children?
I noticed in your bio that you are 34 years old...and this seems to be a
follow up to your other thread?

 

[quintessentialramble]

They are 20-26. I guess I felt close with the whole family since we'd spend so much time together through various services and I felt close to them. Perhaps I viewed them as friends more than they did me perhaps. I acknowledged the issue about me joking around too much perhaps being an offense, and all the pastor said was I was very observant, and that there was no animosity, but judging from the reactions and words, it feels like there is. I've been just trying to let this go and move on, and let God work on the joking issue, and pray. I feel like I've done my part and I haven't tried reaching out since I talked with the pastor, and just leave the doors open should they want to talk about everything.

 

[dreadnought]

So, I'm kind of in a situation where the pastor said he's teaching his family boundaries. I'm kind of confused on this, because from my perspective, it seems more like a tactic to use so that they don't have to talk to people they don't want to talk to. In some regards, i can understand this...there are some situations that can be really threatening, but then I also see unconditional love, where no matter the sin, you forgive that person, and I'm really confused. I feel like the boundaries are being put in place so that they don't have to talk with me about what's going on. The only reasoning I got from the pastor was that I have to take responsibility for myself, which is really confusing. To some degree it's true, but he won't be specific with me, he just speaks in terms that leave me more confused. From my perspective, since they won't talk with me, it just seems like his family thinks I'm annoying so they don't want to talk to me anymore. I could be making that in my mind, but without explanation...I haven't been to that church in about a month and a half, and they haven't reached out to me...I feel really hurt by how things ended and their refusal to communicate what the issue is. I also feel hurt that they refuse to forgive me

Your statement is quite vague, so it's hard to give a reply that I feel confident about. However, and I don't know what's going on, but you really can't expect people to forgive you until you stop hurting them.

 

[turkle]

I agree, it's hard to discern what you are talking about. It sounds like you are joking too much, possibly inappropriately? It also sounds like you have offended them in some way. If you don't know what you are supposed to take responsibility for, then I would go back to the pastor and ask for clarification.

Try to be objective about your own behavior. Are you annoying in the way you joke? Are you offensive? When people distance themselves from you, the best place to look for answers is to you yourself. Pastors are there to serve their congregation, but they are not obligated to like you or to spend their free time with you.

It would be helpful if you would clarify more specifically what transpired.

 

[Sketcher]

The point of defining boundaries is to have clarity in your relationships. There are boundaries that exist whether or not they are defined. You know they are crossed when someone is really draining you. Drawing healthy boundary lines and enforcing them reduces unspoken violations of those boundaries, which reduces anger, bitterness, and overall drama.

 

[Andrew77]

So, I'm kind of in a situation where the pastor said he's teaching his family boundaries. I'm kind of confused on this, because from my perspective, it seems more like a tactic to use so that they don't have to talk to people they don't want to talk to. In some regards, i can understand this...there are some situations that can be really threatening, but then I also see unconditional love, where no matter the sin, you forgive that person, and I'm really confused. I feel like the boundaries are being put in place so that they don't have to talk with me about what's going on. The only reasoning I got from the pastor was that I have to take responsibility for myself, which is really confusing. To some degree it's true, but he won't be specific with me, he just speaks in terms that leave me more confused. From my perspective, since they won't talk with me, it just seems like his family thinks I'm annoying so they don't want to talk to me anymore. I could be making that in my mind, but without explanation...I haven't been to that church in about a month and a half, and they haven't reached out to me...I feel really hurt by how things ended and their refusal to communicate what the issue is. I also feel hurt that they refuse to forgive me

Well..... There is obviously more to this story, possibly a lot more to it, than what is written here.

There is no unconditional love. Not in the Bible. In fact, pretty much everything in the Bible is conditional.

G-d says over and over, if you do X, then I will reward you. If you refuse to do X, then I will punish you.
There is always conditions with love. If you marry a woman, you don't have unconditional love for her, because if she runs away and starts living and sleeping with another man, you'll have a problem with that.

So there is always conditions.

Now as for forgiveness, that means to release someone from a debt. Someone does you wrong, and they owe you. They owe you for the harm they did to you. You release them from that.

Forgiveness does not mean, that you have to let them back into your life, to continue harming you.

If I ask to borrow $100, and you agree, and then I refuse to pay you back. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you must forgive me, and then I'll ask to borrow $100 again, and you must lend it to me, because that's forgiveness.

No. You can forgive me for taking your money and refusing to pay you back. That doesn't mean you are required to allow me the opportunity to steal your money again.

Again, I have no idea what the deal is between you and the pastor. But him forgiving you, does not mean he must allow you back into his family again.

It sounds to me like there is some on-going problems, and the pastor is protecting his family.

I still have no idea what all is going on, but that's just what it sounds like. You would need to give more details to have a more accurate answer to your questions.

 

[Andrew77]

They are 20-26. I guess I felt close with the whole family since we'd spend so much time together through various services and I felt close to them. Perhaps I viewed them as friends more than they did me perhaps. I acknowledged the issue about me joking around too much perhaps being an offense, and all the pastor said was I was very observant, and that there was no animosity, but judging from the reactions and words, it feels like there is. I've been just trying to let this go and move on, and let God work on the joking issue, and pray. I feel like I've done my part and I haven't tried reaching out since I talked with the pastor, and just leave the doors open should they want to talk about everything.

That sounds fair to me. Maybe you were just a little too close. Maybe you made them feel uncomfortable.

That is something I can relate to. I've done that without intending. You just have to back up, give them space, and keep yourself busy with what you should be doing.

if there isn't any major issue, then typically at some point he'll come back around. I will say that you should expect things will never return to exactly as it was before, because the way it was before, was the issue. So don't think, that it will snap back to where it was.

But after you have given space, they'll come around again.

 

[Doug Melven]

Forgiveness is unconditional.
We should forgive no matter what. Even if the offender continues to offend. See Luke 17:1-4
God forgave us while we were still sinners. See Romans 5:8
God forgave our sin before we were born. See 1 John 2:1-2
Yet, even after we know we are forgiven all trespasses, we still sin against Him.
He forgave us an unimanageably huge debt. Who are we to not forgive someone a tiny debt? see Matthew 18:21-45
Any person's sin against us, no matter how large, pales in comparison to what we have done to offend God.

It is also entirely possible that the OP has offended this Pastor in some way, it is up to you to go to him and see if there is something you may need to rectify.
Matthew 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

 

[Amittai]

... In addition, love need not be up close. Sometimes loving someone means maintaining some distance from them.

Additionally, aren't there other members in that church - of a range of ages - who can both "cope with" your sense of humour and point you to new things in your ambit?

Also one needs wholesome hobbies not overtly religion oriented, to pursue on your own and/or with a different bunch of people.

This sounds like what was going on around me, some years back.