Uncomfortable Practices in my Parish

[patriarch]

Defens,

A couple of things. As far as the music goes, to me the whole question is whether the music was a suitable meditation for Communion or not. The fact that it was by a Protestant or sung by a Protestant seems irrelevant. Obviously your discernment was that it contributed nothing to the worship of Jesus present in the Eucharist. THAT is the issue. As a matter of fact there are probably any number of songs by Protestants which could contribute to the worship of Jesus truly present in the Eucharist. I am pretty sure that the Church is open to anything of the sort. If those particular lyrics or that particular style distracted from worship, then you have a case.

As far as the Protestant/Catholic youth group, "Investigate first, then find fault." Sounds bad, I admit, but possibly it is structured in such a way that it would lead to very good things. Have you considered the possibility that the Protestant pastor may be on the verge of converting- together with his whole congregation? Take a look at Marcus Grodi's Coming Home Network. That kind of thing is happening. If anything, I would hope that you get involved. At least, find out what is happening before you leave the parish.

My humble opinion,

Lee

 

[ukok]

DefensorFidei, i feel for you.


Wols, i thought the next generations were going to be born in bunkers...that post of yours the other day really brought me out in a cold sweat

 

[KennySe]

Redemptionis Sacramentum
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWRDSAC.HTM

Please read this in its entirety. POPE JOHN PAUL II has given a green light to all Catholics to speak out (to local Bishop and if need be beyond) to stop Liturgical Abuses.

And this document, in the conclusion, Our Holy Father says these changes (corrections) are to be implemented ASAP.

 

[Snowy]

Would it have been appropriate for someone to break out a guitar and start singing some "uplifting contemporary" song 2000 years ago, as Christ was being crucified? Right at the foot of the cross?

no I guess not

 

[Benedicta00]

Snowy,

The reason why we find this disturbing is because Mass is not the same thing as a Sunday worship and praise service. If it were, then we would not have any issues at all with worshipping with Non Catholics through music. I do believe Defenders even commented on the guy’s talent and that he was very good.

The problem with this is the Mass is the sacrifice of Calvary. We offer the one perfect sacrifice of Our Lord made present to us in a unbloody manner. Holy Mass transcends time and space and we are at the foot of the cross with our Lord mystically. There was no one on Calvary hootin and hollerin when Jesus was crucified.

That is all anyone here is saying. This is why it is not acceptable, but many priests do not even believe in the sacrifice anymore, in the real presence of Jesus. What Catholics are concerned with is priest turning the Mass into a protestant service, we do not think Protestant services are bad but they are not the sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Niamh]

I can try to overlook the female altar servers.

What'[s wrong with them? Their getting involved in the mass. We have female alter servers in our church.

 

[christiangirrl]

LMAO!!!! I know this probably wasn't meant to be funny, but it struck a cord...heh...

I feel your pain though...

Yes lol I laughed when I read that too.




But I know what you mean, I wouldnt like it if someone ruined my time during Communion..especially a non-catholic (no offense to any non-catholics). But, like Ireaneus said, look for the good things at your church rather than the bad

 

[Paul S]

What'[s wrong with them? Their getting involved in the mass. We have female alter servers in our church.

What's wrong with them is that being an altar server is often a way to get someone to consider becoming a priest, and girls can't become priests. Young boys don't often want to participate in activities with girls, and so they quit being servers.

That said, they are currently allowed if the bishop and pastor approve, so use of female altar boys isn't technically an abuse.

 

[princess_ballet]

Then you disagree with Pope John Paul II.

Well, evidently so does my parish and all of the surrounding churches.

 

[KennySe]

Well, evidently so does my parish and all of the surrounding churches.

Read "Redemptionis Sacramentum" (See my link in previous post.)

Then, you will see if your parish is aligned with The Pope.

For my parish, there were a few practices during Mass that were not correct.
These have been corrected.

 

[Skripper]

Viva majority! We will one day make the Church a democracy!

 

[Victrixa]

Wow, DefenseorFidei, I'd feel very uncomfortable too...

 

[Wolseley]

Wols, i thought the next generations were going to be born in bunkers...that post of yours the other day really brought me out in a cold sweat

I thought about adding a coda to that post, something along the lines of "provided we aren't all underground by then", but I decided against it at the last minute, because I have been accused of sounding like a broken record on some subjects, and I don't want to keep hammering away at one topic all the time.

(FWIW, I really do fear we'll be in bunkers by then. This is not going to be pretty before it's all over with.....)

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Defens,

A couple of things. As far as the music goes, to me the whole question is whether the music was a suitable meditation for Communion or not. The fact that it was by a Protestant or sung by a Protestant seems irrelevant. Obviously your discernment was that it contributed nothing to the worship of Jesus present in the Eucharist. THAT is the issue. As a matter of fact there are probably any number of songs by Protestants which could contribute to the worship of Jesus truly present in the Eucharist. I am pretty sure that the Church is open to anything of the sort. If those particular lyrics or that particular style distracted from worship, then you have a case.

As far as the Protestant/Catholic youth group, "Investigate first, then find fault." Sounds bad, I admit, but possibly it is structured in such a way that it would lead to very good things. Have you considered the possibility that the Protestant pastor may be on the verge of converting- together with his whole congregation? Take a look at Marcus Grodi's Coming Home Network. That kind of thing is happening. If anything, I would hope that you get involved. At least, find out what is happening before you leave the parish.

My humble opinion,

Lee

Its possible he might convert. He is actually taking RCIA classes, I just found out, but its "to understand the Catholic faith better" so he can teach the joint CCD class. However, my teaching partner is hoping some of it might sink in to his mind.

I'm a litle concerned about him being there though, cause I'm not going to hold back discussing some of the "hard" issues. I'm pretty blunt over the Reformation etc.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Snowy,

The reason why we find this disturbing is because Mass is not the same thing as a Sunday worship and praise service. If it were, then we would not have any issues at all with worshipping with Non Catholics through music. I do believe Defenders even commented on the guy’s talent and that he was very good.

The problem with this is the Mass is the sacrifice of Calvary. We offer the one perfect sacrifice of Our Lord made present to us in a unbloody manner. Holy Mass transcends time and space and we are at the foot of the cross with our Lord mystically. There was no one on Calvary hootin and hollerin when Jesus was crucified.

That is all anyone here is saying. This is why it is not acceptable, but many priests do not even believe in the sacrifice anymore, in the real presence of Jesus. What Catholics are concerned with is priest turning the Mass into a protestant service, we do not think Protestant services are bad but they are not the sacrifice of the Mass.

Exactly. Shelb5 nailed it.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I thought about adding a coda to that post, something along the lines of "provided we aren't all underground by then", but I decided against it at the last minute, because I have been accused of sounding like a broken record on some subjects, and I don't want to keep hammering away at one topic all the time.

(FWIW, I really do fear we'll be in bunkers by then. This is not going to be pretty before it's all over with.....)

What post are you talking about? Can you link please?

 

[Wolseley]

What post are you talking about? Can you link please?

Sure. The first post was here: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=9196836&postcount=67

and the second post (the one I thought about adding a coda to) was here: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=9265410&postcount=25

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

YIKES!

So Wols, do you think the "false prophet" in Revelation is Mohammed and the final battle will be between Islam and Christianity?

 

[Wolseley]

No; I think the final battle will be between the forces of Christianity and the forces of Satan. But I don't bother to speculate on eschatological interpretations.

I do believe, however, that we are in the opening stages of a global conflict that may end up being a third world war; and it will consist of Islam vs. Everybody Else, specifically the West.

The Muslims know this. Anyone with half an eye in the rest of the world knows this. The only ones who refuse to acknowledge it are the Western media, because to admit that 104% of the terrorist acts in the world are perpetrated by Muslims, and that Islam wants to take over the world, violates the media's religion---the religion of total tolerance, whatever the cost.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Ok, I feel a bit better after the meeting yesterday with the priest. It turns out that the singer is taking RCIA and it may be more than just an attempt to be able to understand Catholicism better. (He is also NOT teaching anything to the Catholic kids...it is not a CCD so to speak, more like a fellowship ministry). He asked the priest to teach him the Rosary and I've seen him sitting in the back of Mass for months now. Apparently a lot of his friends are converting to Catholicism and telling him about the "one true Church" so he is interested.

I'm going to give him a lot of my books by Scott Hahn during these classes!

I'm still annoyed by the guitar playing during Communion, but I think a conversion may be worth it for now.