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Unclean spirit?

Discussion in 'Sign Gifts' started by tturt, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Why would a follower of Jesus think that deliverance is for unbelievers in view of -

    'When a demon is cast out of a person, it roams around a dry region, looking for a place to rest, but never finds it. 44 Then it says, ‘I’ll return to the house I moved out of,’ and so it goes back, only to find that the house is vacant, warm, and ready for it to move back in. 45 So it goes looking for seven other demons more evil than itself, and they all enter together to live there. Then the person’s condition becomes much worse than it was in the beginning. This describes what will also happen to the people of this evil generation.” Matt 12


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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  2. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman New Member

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    Demons not enter christians. Becuase they have Holy Spirit. They are temple of God/Holy Spirit. How can demon be in the temple?
     
  3. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

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    Except if you lower your guard with sins or simply not caring as much as you should, yes demons attack christians and can enter them. Also christians can have demons from before they were christians, spiritual problems just don't vanish when you become a believer, they need to be solved.

    So that old 'christians can't have demons because they have the Holy spirit', is unrealistic and false.
     
  4. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    After reading Matt 12, why the view that deliverance is only for unbelievers? Trying to understand that perspective. Thanks

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    "But you are Jewish because of the inward act of spiritual circumcision—a radical change that lays bare your heart. It’s not by the principle of law, but by power of the Holy Spirit. For then your praise will not come from people, but from God himself!" Rom 2:29
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  5. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I don't see any reference in the New Testament that Christian believers, who have the indwelling Holy Spirit in them, can be demon possessed. If it ain't in the New Testament then it ain't true, and that demon possession for Christians is the figment of the imagination and has given rise to so called "deliverance" ministries for Christians and has generated tidy incomes and enhanced reputations for exorcists.

    Don't get me wrong. Christians can be tempted, obsessed, and oppressed by demons, and there are good ministries to help these unfortunate people, but all I see in the New Testament is where pagans were delivered of demons and turned to Christ.
     
  6. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I didnt post anything about a believer being possessed. Studied possessed and oppressed. I believe deliverance should only be done by the leading of the Holy Spirit - that would cover unbelievers then. To me it would be best for the believer to understand that they have the responsibility of maintaining it. Can see where they would need to know that upfront.
     
  7. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I like the way that Neil Anderson goes about it in his book "The Bondage Breaker". He insists on total cooperation with the person needing to be set free from demonic influence. Quite different from the old Pentecostal way of calling someone out in a public meeting, accusing them of having a demon and trying to cast it out - which, not being found anywhere in the New Testament is, in my opinion total nonsense and potentially damaging.
     
  8. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Haven't read Anderson's book but sounds like one for the list. Thanks

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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  9. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    The word translated possesed by devils/demons is "Daemonizimai". which mean to be Tormented by, Oppressed by, or to be brough under the INFLUENCE of the demonic. SO CHristians are JUST as likely to be tormented by the demonic as any other human. Biblical ignorance, and sloppy spiritual hygene "Gives place" (Eph 4:27) to the enemy, and he's only too happy to grab it, and build on it, using your Biblical IGNORANCE, and your casual commitment to Him to bring you into bondage.
     
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  10. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

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    So you say people who has been delivered of spiritual problems were not christian to begin with then, this happens a lot, myself, after God opened my eyes to the problems i had, i drove out spirits from me, that i had when i was a kid and teenager.

    You say people gets delivered just because believing in Jesus? most probably they will have to deal with their spiritual problems after believing.
     
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  11. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    Because just like Christ's coming to Earth, it's a rescue mission. You see someone in great distress, you want to help if possible. Were most of the people who were delivered in the NT believers in Christ? The man in the synagogue at Capernaum, the young man with his father in Mt 17, the daughter of the Syro-Phoenician woman, the Gadarene men - we have no record of them being believers, especially in Christ specifically. Yet never did Christ send anyone away. Ought not we do the same? It's the goodness-kindness of God that leads men to repentance. So we show people God's goodness, and then they want Him.
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The fact remains. There is no direct teaching about Christian believers being so controlled by demonic spirits that they need deliverance. You might show your Biblical knowledge by giving me some references from the New Testament. Don't try giving references from the gospels because Jesus was dealing with unconverted Jews and the demons He cast out during His ministry were from unconverted Jews. What is more significant is any references in the book of Acts (and don't include the servant girl because she was not a converted believer). And the Samaritans under the preaching of Philip had demons cast out of them which resulted in their conversion to Christ.

    Quite frankly, there is no mention of the demonic influence that is bandied around among Pentecostals and Charismatics in the book of Acts or the teaching of Paul. What is clearly implied is that unconverted people were delivered of demonic influence and then converted to Christ.

    So, much of what is seen as demonic influence is just from the imaginations of dreamers who are reading into New Testament Scripture that is just not there. You are welcome to prove me wrong, but I will be convinced by New Testament Scripture of events and teaching AFTER the day of Pentecost.
     
  13. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Comparing Matt and Luke Scripture "When a demon is cast out of a person, it goes to wander in the waterless realm, searching for rest. But finding no place to rest it says, ‘I will go back to the body of the one I left.’ 25 When it returns, it finds the person like a house that has been swept clean and made tidy but is empty. 26 Then it goes and enlists seven demons more evil than itself, and they all enter and possess the person, leaving that one with a much worse fate than before.” Luke 11 TPT

    "When a demon is cast out of a person, it roams around a dry region, looking for a place to rest, but never finds it. 44 Then it says, ‘I’ll return to the house I moved out of,’ and so it goes back, only to find that the house is vacant, warm, and ready for it to move back in. 45 So it goes looking for seven other demons more evil than itself, and they all enter together to live there. Then the person’s condition becomes much worse than it was in the beginning. This describes what will also happen to the people of this evil generation.” Matt 12 TPT

    The way to be filled is read the Bible and/or hear teaching / preaching from His Word.

    "He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions." PSA 107:20

    "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7


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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  14. Bob Carabbio

    Bob Carabbio Old guy -

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    I wouldn't even bother to try.
     
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