• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Unclean question

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. tampasteve

    tampasteve Steadfast Lutheran Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

    +2,804
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    I am not sure where he would have taught that, nor why. Oral Torah, mishna, etc. would have been standard use in the synagogue and in teachings. We are fairly certain that he taught and read from the targums and of course the brit hadashah was not written at the time. All that to say though that these sources are used to expound and explain Torah, they should not contradict it. Torah should always take the lead over the rest of scripture.
     
  2. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

    +6,865
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    I would strongly advise caution to this idea. Be very careful that one is not relying on self to understand than God imparting His wisdom to us. The Torah is already in the Bible, but it’s not the end all be all either because God put all 66 books together for a reason. It’s His core message to the world.

    advising caution is all I can do. I came from a background of self reliance in everything. Not saying that’s you, but it is certainly where I came from and I just hope that isn’t the case. :yellowheart:

    May God bless you!
     
  3. tampasteve

    tampasteve Steadfast Lutheran Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

    +2,804
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    I think perhaps you misunderstand. The SOP rule and what I stated is advocating the exact opposite of self reliance. Also, it is the SOP for this forum, so not really up to debate.
     
  4. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

    +6,865
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    Not sure what the SOP has to do with this, but if I misunderstood, please understand that I wasn’t trying to debate, but merely directing to God’s Truth. I can’t change anyone’s mind after all. :yellowheart: I understand we have our differences.
     
  5. tampasteve

    tampasteve Steadfast Lutheran Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

    +2,804
    United States
    Lutheran
    Married
    US-Others
    No malice or anger is here :)

    I just want to understand each other. It is not really fair to say "...merely directing to God's Truth.......I understand we have our differences." This of course implies that your view hold's God's truth where a differing one does not. Perhaps you did not mean that, but that is the way it reads.

    What I am saying is that the Torah holds the most importance, but all of scripture is valid and true and from God. I think you would be hard pressed to find any rabbinic Jewish or Messianic Jewish person, that would say that the Torah does not hold prominence over the other parts of the Tanach. The whole Tanach (or all of the Bible for MJs) is God's inspired scripture, but the Torah still holds a "first among equals" position (if I may borrow the term from the Eastern Orthodox).

    However, outside of scripture we have the Mishna, Talmud, Targums, etc. that all can hold much value in how scripture and Torah are interpreted. Scripture (the Bible) is not an outside source and outside sources are not equal to Torah, even though they hold much value.
     
  6. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Foul/filthy, unclean birds are flightless and with no discernment of a hot or cold.
    Their hearts of stone have long since rendered a burden upon their souls that cannot be undone.

    Even so,.
    There are those who have tasted of the freedom of flight and enjoyed the air in their lungs and wing tips.
    The sod of PaRDeS in a sense.
    Then there is the level beyond the sod where faith is increased in fruits of the spirit that further nourishes.

    Blessings Always
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  7. Swan7

    Swan7 Made in the image of His Grace Supporter

    +6,865
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    I’m sorry I guess I don’t know what you are getting at because the whole Word of God matters, not just one or the other. Perhaps that’s why there seems to be this “split” between MJ’s and Christians - which I think is sad because we are all of one blood. I have learned much from a MJ brother on YouTube, I think it’s fascinating the things I haven’t seen which they perceive in the Bible as a whole.

    It’s not up to me how some perceive what they read either. What I have said is out of love, not hate. If I hated I would have kept quiet.

    God bless all His children.
     
  8. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,976
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Because all animals haven't been made clean for consumption. There is an entire apocryphal book that describes the kingdoms of the world as animals (pigs, dogs, sheep/Israel) - and a Shepherd that leads them. It is what is alluded to in Acts 10 - the vision was a dream related to the nations (represented as animals) being clean to "eat", because what the Most High God makes clean through the blood of Christ no man can say is an abomination.

    That is the complete context. The Most High God was telling Peter that the dogs/monkeys/donkeys/swine/etc. of the world are now [eligible through the blood of the Son of Man and His Resurrection to be made] clean. He wasn't telling him that literal monkeys, dogs, swine, snakes, etc. are clean to eat.
     
  9. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    A perspective of Torah(law) reveals a persons choice of burden.
    Whether they be sons or daughters of the olam habah(eternal kingdom).
    KINGDOM OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

    What a person does after supping with the Lord and given instruction during such a time depends on their choice.
    Build or do not build according to the Torah of spirit.

    Blessings Always
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  10. His77

    His77 Malachi 3:17

    88
    +84
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Both
    Adonai said to Noach, “Come into the ark, you and all your household; for I have seen that you alone in this generation are righteous before me. 2 Of every clean animal you are to take seven couples, and of the animals that are not clean, one couple; 3 also of the birds in the air take seven couples — in order to preserve their species throughout the earth. 4 For in seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; I will wipe out every living thing that I have made from the face of the earth.” 5 Noach did all that Adonai ordered him to do.
     
  11. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,866
    Anabaptist
    Eagles, Ravens And Unclean Birds In The Bible With Scripture
    [​IMG]Eagles, Ravens and Unclean Birds of the Bible
    Dec 4, 2017After Jesus' death and resurrection, we are no longer bound by Old Testament rules on clean and unclean meat, but, personally, I find this concept fascinating and plan to go deeper to study why these fowl (and other animals) were considered unclean. Eagles, ravens and unclean birds are found throughout Scripture.

    In the Bible why is a raven unclean - Answers
    [​IMG]In the Bible why is a raven unclean - Answers
    Ravens are unclean because they eat unclean things. It's their job. "...I will give you as FOOD TO THE VULTURES and wild animals." (Ezek.39:4 NLT)

    Topical Bible: Birds: Unclean: Raven

    [​IMG]Topical Bible: Birds: Unclean: Raven
    Anxious About Earth, or Earnest About the Kingdom... The raven was one of the 'unclean' birds, and of ill omen, from Noah's days, and yet had its meat in due season, though that meat was corpses. ...
     
  12. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The distinction is given in instruction that they are unclean concerning consumption.

    The faithful birds themselves are still considered clean.
     
  13. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Thankyou sis,
    I imagined you would hear and help with progressing the conversation in oil.

    Sister visionary does have a unique style of intrigue.

    While the birds in the firmament above are all clean just as is spoken, there is a distinction upon those that are acceptable(clean) for consumption.

    Hence the Ravens cry
    Psalms 147
     
  14. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I know birds that eat snake
     
  15. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The certainty of 7 pairs of clean birds reminds me of the armor especially given orphans ..

    Blessings Always
     
  16. His77

    His77 Malachi 3:17

    88
    +84
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Halleluyah!
    How good it is to sing praises to our God!
    How sweet, how fitting to praise him!
    Adonai is rebuilding Yerushalayim,
    gathering the dispersed of Isra’el.
    He heals the brokenhearted
    and binds up their wounds.
    He determines how many stars there are
    and calls them all by name.


    Our Lord is great, his power is vast,
    his wisdom beyond all telling.
    Adonai sustains the humble
    but brings the wicked down to the ground.


    Sing to Adonai with thanks,
    sing praises on the lyre to our God.
    He veils the sky with clouds;
    he provides the earth with rain;
    he makes grass grow on the hills;
    he gives food to the animals,
    even to the young ravens when they cry.


    He takes no delight in the strength of a horse,
    no pleasure in a runner’s speed.
    Adonai takes pleasure in those who fear him,
    in those who wait for his grace.


    Glorify Adonai, Yerushalayim!
    Praise your God, Tziyon!
    For he strengthens the bars of your gates,
    he blesses your children within you,
    he brings peace within your borders,
    he gives you your fill of the finest wheat.


    He sends his word out over the earth,
    his command runs swiftly.
    Thus he gives snow like wool,
    scatters hoarfrost like ashes,
    sends crystals of ice like crumbs of bread —
    who can withstand such cold?
    Then he sends his word out and melts them;
    he makes the winds blow, and the water flows.


    He reveals his words to Ya‘akov,
    his laws and rulings to Isra’el.
    He has not done this for other nations;
    they do not know his rulings.


    Halleluyah!
     
  17. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Flight in the spirit is more than merely observing the winds.
    Once a person discerns the hot and cold.
    They learn from the Lord what is to be sown to the wind with a tranquil heart.

    Halleluyah
     
  18. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Something else to consider is that only birds are mentioned?
     
  19. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

    +760
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    As I've said before.
    "Shechem is a sacred place"

    And a great tree is mentioned of roots with an altar.
     
  20. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

    +1,976
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Yep. Some birds are supposed to eat those creatures. Their bodies are made to digest and process filth, disease and other things associated with unclean meat.

    Those birds that eat snakes are not considered clean.
     
Loading...