Unchristian teachings of the Seventh Day Adventist Church....

[klutedavid]

Hey klutedavid
Thanks for the reply!

My understanding so far is this:

They do not teach that going to church on Sunday is the mark of the beast. They say that the institution of Sunday worship stems from the Roman control which is the devil trying to distance us from God.

The 10 commandments as a term may not be found, but discussions around them certainly are found in the NT. Also, there would be no need to reiterate the Sabbath commandment in the epistle unless people were not keeping it. Pauk wrote that he kept the Sabbath.

But I like to keep the thought that I am happy to be wrong, because it means that I now know what is right!

Hello fromtheearth.

The official SDA doctrine regarding the mark of the beast.

Thus it was that the Adventist heralds of Sabbath reform came to make a further logical application of the mark of the beast—holding it to be, in essence, the attempted change of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment of the Decalogue by the Papacy, its endeavor to impose this change on Christendom, and the acceptance of the Papacy's substitute by individuals. We believe that in the end of time, in the light of clear divine prohibition, all men will be brought face to face with a decision to accept or reject Sunday observance.
(sdanet.org)

No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast.—Evangelism, pp. 234, 235.
(sdanet.org)

 

[klutedavid]

This verse (14:5) is my favourite in this respect. It shows that the judgement will be based in your intent, not your works as was promised. In my head and heart (so far) I believe the Saturday Sabbath is the correct day, while other believe in their hearts that Sunday is correct.

The beautiful thing about Grace is that we will make mistakes, but we have already been forgive for them. As long as we continue to search and strive to be apart from sin.

Hello fromtheearth.

SDA believes that your only forgiven for the sins you committed before becoming a Christian. They have a different interpretation of Grace to many other churches.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello fromtheearth.

Thanks for the reply.

Just a couple of questions though. Where you say "We find that the Gentiles met on the first day as they should", what do you mean "as they should"? Is there some direction on this somewhere?

The gentile Christians in Troas gathered to break bread on the first day.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

Also, through all of the epistles and the messages to the churches in Revelation, there is no church that is directed to worship on the first day, yet they were all Sabbath keeping churches. So if that was the day they were meant to meet on, why were they never directed to change? Or were they and I just haven't seen it yet?

Jesus arose on the third day and not after the third day.

1 Corinthians 15
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

There is important information in Luke 24 regarding the day Jesus arose, and the breaking of the bread. The paragraphs in Luke 24 are too large to quote directly.
I recommend that you read these verses carefully.

Of course the SDA has their own interpretation of these quotations.

 

[klutedavid]

Repentance before grace, which means turning away from sin.....1st John says "sin is transgression of the law'
As Jesus told the woman caught in adultery "go and sin no more"

Hello Jeepneytravel.

Who needs Jesus, just stop sinning?

 

[fromtheearth]

Hello fromtheearth.

The official SDA doctrine regarding the mark of the beast.

Thus it was that the Adventist heralds of Sabbath reform came to make a further logical application of the mark of the beast—holding it to be, in essence, the attempted change of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment of the Decalogue by the Papacy, its endeavor to impose this change on Christendom, and the acceptance of the Papacy's substitute by individuals. We believe that in the end of time, in the light of clear divine prohibition, all men will be brought face to face with a decision to accept or reject Sunday observance.
(sdanet.org)

No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion. None are condemned until they have had the light and have seen the obligation of the fourth commandment. But when the decree shall go forth enforcing the counterfeit sabbath, and the loud cry of the third angel shall warn men against the worship of the beast and his image, the line will be clearly drawn between the false and the true. Then those who still continue in transgression will receive the mark of the beast.—Evangelism, pp. 234, 235.
(sdanet.org)

Without going in to whether the Sat or Sun is correct, but assume the Sat is, then:

Reading this, I interpret that at the second coming, everyone who is worshiping on the wrong day will be given a chance to repent. (I expect that every Sunday worship christian would absolutely do so as there intentions are clearly to love Jesus). Failure to repent and to "continue in transgression" would indicate that they do not wish to be saved and THEN they would receive the mark of the beast.

It doesn't say that current Sunday worship IS the mark of the beast.

 

[fromtheearth]

Hello fromtheearth.

SDA believes that your only forgiven for the sins you committed before becoming a Christian. They have a different interpretation of Grace to many other churches.

This is certainly different to what I have been taught. The way it was explained to me was that Christianty is a "walk" not an immediate change. The idea is that each time we take a step we are pulling away from our sins. The idea s to try and get the steps (sins) to be further and further apart.

I was directed Romans 1:17, 2 Cor 3:18 and 2 Cor 4:16 where Paul highlights the process being from "day to day" and "glory to glory".

We are absolutely taught that Grace applies to sins we haven't even committed yet.

 

[fromtheearth]

Hello fromtheearth.

Thanks for the reply.

The gentile Christians in Troas gathered to break bread on the first day.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

Jesus arose on the third day and not after the third day.

1 Corinthians 15
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

There is important information in Luke 24 regarding the day Jesus arose, and the breaking of the bread. The paragraphs in Luke 24 are too large to quote directly.
I recommend that you read these verses carefully.

Of course the SDA has their own interpretation of these quotations.

The interpretation I was given of Acts 20:7 was that they all waited for Sabbath to be finished before breaking bread with Paul as sort of a farewell before he left for the Pentecost Festival. Also, that breaking bread wasn't only done on Sunday but many different days.

I will definitely re-read the passages of Luke you pointed out.
Thanks for taking the time to direct me to these things.

I think the important thing is to acknowledge that like all other churches, the SDA will have some people that misinterpret the word as it was intended, but the aim of the church as a whole certainly is to teach exactly from the bible.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello fromtheearth.

The interpretation I was given of Acts 20:7 was that they all waited for Sabbath to be finished before breaking bread with Paul as sort of a farewell before he left for the Pentecost Festival.

The text does not say that they waited for the Sabbath to be finished. That is creative writing and the SDA go to great lengths to ignore what is written.

Also, that breaking bread wasn't only done on Sunday but many different days.

That is correct, breaking bread can be both a meal and a can be done to remember Jesus. We have been told to break the bread by Jesus. So Acts 20:7 says that they gathered together to break the bread, that was the reason they met on the first day of the week.

I will definitely re-read the passages of Luke you pointed out.

Read that chapter a few times.

Thanks for taking the time to direct me to these things.

If ever you have a question just ask.

I think the important thing is to acknowledge that like all other churches, the SDA will have some people that misinterpret the word as it was intended, but the aim of the church as a whole certainly is to teach exactly from the bible.

I wish that every church in the world read every letter in the Bible, in the context in which it was written. Alas, the SDA does not pay attention to the context, so they fall headlong into deep error.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello fromtheearth.

Without going in to whether the Sat or Sun is correct, but assume the Sat is, then:

Reading this, I interpret that at the second coming, everyone who is worshiping on the wrong day will be given a chance to repent. (I expect that every Sunday worship christian would absolutely do so as there intentions are clearly to love Jesus). Failure to repent and to "continue in transgression" would indicate that they do not wish to be saved and THEN they would receive the mark of the beast.

It doesn't say that current Sunday worship IS the mark of the beast.

Correct, though it is not difficult to see the emphasis that the SDA places on Sabbath observance, the end times proclaim it too. Ellen saw the Sabbath commandment glowing in her vision, this is the reason the SDA church exists.

The church of England exists because King Henry wanted a divorce.

One woman's vision is more than enough reason to create the only true SDA church!!

The Jehovah's witnesses were started by one man.

The Mormans, by one man.

The Christadelphians, by one man.

The Lutheran church, by one man.

The Baptist church, by one man.

The list goes on and on, if you don't like your church just start your own.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Hello Jeepneytravel.

Who needs Jesus, just stop sinning?

Obviously we all do, including yourself.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Hello fromtheearth.

Correct, though it is not difficult to see the emphasis that the SDA places on Sabbath observance, the end times proclaim it too. Ellen saw the Sabbath commandment glowing in her vision, this is the reason the SDA church exists.

The church of England exists because King Henry wanted a divorce.

One woman's vision is more than enough reason to create the only true SDA church!!

The Jehovah's witnesses were started by one man.

The Mormans, by one man.

The Christadelphians, by one man.

The Lutheran church, by one man.

The Baptist church, by one man.

The list goes on and on, if you don't like your church just start your own.

Many theologians have studied the Bible, and reiterate the imporance of the Sabbath keeping...not only the ones you mention...the Sabbath keeping is Biblical for all time.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

ee

The interpretation I was given of Acts 20:7 was that they all waited for Sabbath to be finished before breaking bread with Paul as sort of a farewell before he left for the Pentecost Festival. Also, that breaking bread wasn't only done on Sunday but many different days.

I will definitely re-read the passages of Luke you pointed out.
Thanks for taking the time to direct me to these things.

I think the important thing is to acknowledge that like all other churches, the SDA will have some people that misinterpret the word as it was intended, but the aim of the church as a whole certainly is to teach exactly from the bible.

They celebrated the Sabbath day, and "broke bread" means had a meal, and
Paul being long winded carried on talking until after midnight....This does not affect the sanctitiy of the Sabbath day.

 

[klutedavid]

Many theologians have studied the Bible, and reiterate the imporance of the Sabbath keeping...not only the ones you mention...the Sabbath keeping is Biblical for all time.

Hello Jeepneytravel.

The written Sabbath law was given only to Israel.

 

[klutedavid]

ee


They celebrated the Sabbath day, and "broke bread" means had a meal, and
Paul being long winded carried on talking until after midnight....This does not affect the sanctitiy of the Sabbath day.

Hello Jeepneytravel.

The Greek scholars are united on this, 'the first day of the week', not the Sabbath day.

You refuse to accept all the Biblical translations of Acts 20:7. You are not even interested in what the Bible clearly states.

All four gospel accounts reveal how Jesus rose (and His tomb was found empty) “on the first day of the week” (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1; cf. 20:19). Years later, Paul wrote to the Corinthian church commanding them to make regular contributions “on the first day of the week” (1 Corinthians 16:2; or “on the first day of every week”—NASB, NIV, RSV). Luke recorded in the book of Acts how Paul, while on his third missionary journey, assembled with the Christians in Troas ,“on the first day of the week” (20:7). The phrase, “the first day of the week”, appears eight times in the most widely used English translations of the New Testament. Based on this reading of the text, along with various supplemental passages (e.g., Revelation 1:10), Christians assemble to worship God on Sunday. Upon looking at the Greek text, however, some have questioned the integrity of the translation “the first day of the week,” wondering if a better wording would be “the Sabbath day.”

Admittedly, a form of the Greek word for sabbath (sabbaton or sabbatou) does appear in each of the eight passages translated “first day of the week.” For example, in Acts 20:7 this phrase is translated from the Greek mia ton sabbaton. However, sabbaton (or sabbatou) is never translated as “the Sabbath day” in these passages. Why? Because the word is used in these contexts (as Greek scholars overwhelmingly agree) to denote a “week” (Perschbacher, 1990, p. 364), “a period of seven days” (Danker, et al., 2000, p. 910; cf. Thayer, 1962, p. 566). Jesus once used the term “Sabbath” in this sense while teaching about the sinfulness of self-righteousness (Luke 18:9). He told a parable of the sanctimonious Pharisee who prayed: “God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess” (18:11-12, emp. added). The phrase “twice a week” comes from the Greek dis tou sabbatou. Obviously Jesus was not saying that the Pharisee boasted of fasting twice on the Sabbath day, but twice (dis) a week (tou sabbatou).
(apologeticspress.org)

 

[Jeepneytravel]

All of your writings are referring to the old Mosaic law 600 laws of Moses, don't you know the difference? Also Paul told them to gather their stuff on the first day of the week, so they did not desecrate the SAbbath day...as 1st day is a usual work day
You quoting scholars etc mean nothing if they negate the teaching in the Bible, so you should treat them as such.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Hello Jeepneytravel.

The written Sabbath law was given only to Israel.

Don't you know you a grafted into the spriritual Israel? If you are a Christian that should be obvious...Romans 11 spells out the grating of gentiles into the tree....
The sabbath day was brought in by God in Genesis 2 before anyJews, gentiles or whatever, it was for his creation all humankind.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Jeepneytravel.

Thanks for your replies.

Don't you know you a grafted into the spriritual Israel?

I was grafted into the root of the olive tree which is Christ. Olive trees have branches that grow from the root, unlike other trees that have branches growing from a trunk. Hence gentiles remain gentile branches, gentiles do not become Jews. The scripture is specific on this point.

Romans 11
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree.

You have been mislead into thinking that gentiles become Jews. The verse says, 'grafted in among them', among them does not mean becomes them.

The sabbath day was brought in by God in Genesis 2 before anyJews, gentiles or whatever, it was for his creation all humankind.

The word, 'Sabbath', is not mentioned in Genesis 2, the text actually says seventh day.
It is wrong to say Sabbath day in Genesis, there is no Sabbath mentioned in Genesis.

You will not find the word Sabbath mentioned until the book of Exodus.

This means that the commandment of Sabbath observance was not enacted, until the time of Moses in Exodus.

You are wrong on this point, there is no commandment in Genesis for all mankind to obey a Sabbath commandment. Because there is no Sabbath command to obey in Genesis then, there is no sin, no disobedience.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Hello Jeepneytravel.

Thanks for your replies.

I was grafted into the root of the olive tree which is Christ. Olive trees have branches that grow from the root, unlike other trees that have branches growing from a trunk. Hence gentiles remain gentile branches, gentiles do not become Jews. The scripture is specific on this point.

Romans 11
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree.

You have been mislead into thinking that gentiles become Jews. The verse says, 'grafted in among them', among them does not mean becomes them.

The word, 'Sabbath', is not mentioned in Genesis 2, the text actually says seventh day.
It is wrong to say Sabbath day in Genesis, there is no Sabbath mentioned in Genesis.

You will not find the word Sabbath mentioned until the book of Exodus.

This means that the commandment of Sabbath observance was not enacted, until the time of Moses in Exodus.

You are wrong on this point, there is no commandment in Genesis for all mankind to obey a Sabbath commandment. Because there is no Sabbath command to obey in Genesis then, there is no sin, no disobedience.

Christians are all spiritually grafted into the Jewish tree, whether you believe it or not...
The point is if God make a day Holy Genesis 2, and sanctifies it,for all mankind, don;t you think it is a good idea to keep it Holy? Obviously you don't....well i will follow God, and not the doctrines of man, as so many such as yourself are doing.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Christians are all spiritually grafted into the Jewish tree, whether you believe it or not...
The point is if God make a day Holy Genesis 2, and sanctifies it,for all mankind, don;t you think it is a good idea to keep it Holy? Obviously you don't....well i will follow God, and not the doctrines of man, as so many such as yourself are doing.

How do you know that Christians are all spiritually grafted into the Jewish tree?

 

[klutedavid]

Christians are all spiritually grafted into the Jewish tree, whether you believe it or not...
The point is if God make a day Holy Genesis 2, and sanctifies it,for all mankind, don;t you think it is a good idea to keep it Holy? Obviously you don't....well i will follow God, and not the doctrines of man, as so many such as yourself are doing.

Hello Jeepneytravel.

Your the one following the doctrines of man, i.e., Ellen White.

You call yourself a Seventh Day Adventist, that is nothing more than a church with man made doctrines. Where do you think your interpretation came from?

I am not an adherent of any church, nor do I follow any man made tradition.

Gentiles are grafted into the root of the olive tree and the root is Christ.

You have been misled.