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Featured Unbelievers Are Condemned

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Apr 5, 2021.

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  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John 3:
    17
    God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order
    that the world might be saved through Him.
    18 The one who believes in Him is not condemned; but whoever does not believe
    has been condemned already, because he has not put his trust in the name of
    the one and only Ben-Elohim.
    19 Now this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world and men loved
    the darkness instead of the light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and does not come to the light, so that
    their deeds will not be exposed.
    21 But whoever practices the truth comes to the light, so that it may be made known
    that his deeds have been accomplished in God.

    Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven,
    but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  2. .Mikha'el.

    .Mikha'el. Young Fogie Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    So you've thrown out a bunch of Scripture while making no attempt to unpack or explain it further or discuss what it means to you personally.
     
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  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I do not believe that a direct quote from the Words of Christ constitute "throwing out
    a bunch of Scripture" that must be "unpacked or explained".
    I agree and admit that I made no attempt to express what they mean to me personally.
    I was simply curious to see how others in this forum would react to His Words,
    not my opinions, at least at the start. Is that against the rules? Have I offended you?
     
  4. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Ultimately, ALL will do the will the Father.

    This is our faith in the total victory of Christ and the consummation of the great promises of God. Every nation blessed, every tongue confessing, every lost sheep retrieved, every prisoner released, wolf and lamb reconciled.

    The work of Calvary is not only for the benefit of a remnant.

    The trickle of water that issues from the temple swells into a mighty river that cascades into the Dead Sea, giving life to all.
     
  5. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And yet there are those denied access through the gates of the city.
    Revelation 22:
    14
    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life,
    and may enter through the gates into the city.
    15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters,
    and whoever loves and practices a lie.
     
  6. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Ah yes, but the Pearly Gates stand ever-open (Revelation 21:25), and the invitation stands (Revelation 22:17). And we know God is making all things new (Revelation 21:5) - it's a dynamic process. Stay out until you wash your robes in the Lamb's blood. Not forever hopeless lost and marooned lol. Come on man, salvation is the Omega Plan. See also Revelation 15:4 - the radical all.
     
  7. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Condemned to perish through lack of knowledge.

    So Jesus brings knowledge, through the gospel, which is glad tidings of great joy for all mankind viz that God has reconciled the world to Him. Translation: the hound of heaven never misses!
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is about access
    Revelation 21:
    26
    And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.
    27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination
    or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

    Revelation 22:
    17
    And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And let him who hears say, Come!
    And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
    18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
    If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
    19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away
    his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and the things which are written in this book.

    The invitation to come and take the water of life freely is now. Have a drink.
    John 7:
    37
    On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying,
    If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
    38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers
    of living water.
    39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;
    for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

    Revelation 21:
    6
    And He said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.
    I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
    7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
    8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters,
    and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the
    second death.
    Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
    For You alone are holy. For all nations shall come and worship before You,
    For Your judgments have been manifested.
    Amen. All nations shall come and worship, but not until after the kings and their armies
    are destroyed.

    Revelation 19:
    19
    And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
    20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence,
    by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat
    on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
     
  9. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    So the nations are converted sometime between Revelation 20:9 and Revelation 21:24?

    How does that occur, given that all unbelievers are consigned to the Lake of Fire? (Revelation 21:8)
     
  10. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The "OP" are the Words of Christ.
    Salvation is based on belief apart from past deeds,
    Condemnation is based on unbelief, apart from past deeds.
    There is no acceptable threshold of evil deeds that one must cross to be condemned.
    Going forward, our professed belief acknowledges that our deeds will be held up to
    "the light of Truth", that will prove that "our deeds have been accomplished in (the Will of) God"
    John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
    believes in Him
    should not perish but have everlasting life.

    So you are saying that the opposite of everlasting life, "perishing" is simply dying physically?
    All die physically. Perishing is the second death, after the resurrection and judgment.
    Second death isn't "eternal conscious torments" it is death. Permanent. As in, death.
    Revelation 2:
    22
    Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
    23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is as you say. To get to Revelation 21:24 requires Revelation 21:8 first. What is 'consigned"?
    1 Corinthians 3:
    12
    Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
    13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire;
    and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
    14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
    15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved,
    yet so as through fire.
     
  12. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Yes, so the Lake of Fire into which they are thrown (maybe not quite 'consigned') is SALVIFIC. It is there to refine away the dross, to wash the robes from crimson red to white as wool with fuller's soap, to give life by destroying death. It is prefigured by Solomon's Molten Sea in 1 Kings 7:23-26, the Pool of Bethesda in John 5 and historically validated against the mikveh ritual baths that surround the site of the second temple.
    Mikveh Discovery Highlights Ritual Bathing in Second Temple Period Jerusalem

    The eternal fire of God's intense love, purifying theion.
     
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  13. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    False conclusion which can deceive many.
    Revelation 21:4-8
    4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
    8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
    Although God said “no more death,” vs. 4 and “I make all things new,” vs. 5, in vs. 8, eight groups of sinful people are cast into the lake of fire, which despite “no more death,” vs 4, is still “the second death.”
    …..Note in vs. 7 God specifies conditions i.e. “He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
    God does not say everyone shall inherit all things etc. The converse of that stated condition is, “He that does NOT overcome shall NOT inherit all things; and I will NOT be his God, and he shall NOT be my son.”
    Salvation is not mentioned after this in Rev.

    Revelation 22:11-12
    11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
    12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward
    is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    If everybody has been saved how can there still be unjust and filthy. Jesus does not say He will save everyone but let the unjust and filthy remain as they are.
    Revelation 22:15
    15 For without
    are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    If everybody has been saved how can there still be dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters and liars?
    Revelation 22:18-19
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things,

    God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,
    God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and OUT of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    If everyone was saved in Rev 21 why are these warnings still in the Bible?
    Two more verses- no more salvation. The End.
     
  14. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Unfortunately no, zero, none scripture which supports this UR pipe dream.
    The mikvehs were filled with water not eternal fire.
    Solomon's molten sea was not molten lava, it was a large bathing vessel which had been formed with melted metal.
     
  15. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And yet it sounds particularly unpleasant, even as the trials of my faith that I have endured and
    accepted from a loving God for my edification. "For he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased
    from sin". 1 Peter 4:1
     
  16. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Holy fire was in short supply.
     
  17. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tell that to Nadab and Abihu. Leviticus 10
     
  18. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Indeed, because it separates sin attachments of a lifetime, burns away corruption of the flesh and false identities. That's why the devil is tormented, because he just keeps resisting God's transforming love, the life of Christ.

    Jesus teaches that everyone will be salted with fire, and salt is good. (Mark 9:49-50).

    And Paul tells us that ultimately all creation will be subdued to Christ (1 Corinthians 15:28).
     
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  19. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Lol, I'd rather get it from Isaiah:
    So I said: “Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts.” Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. (Isa 6:5-7)

    If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee. (Pro 25:21-22)
     
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  20. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    There is a separate forum for humor if you want to post jokes/humorous anecdotes.
    God didn't seem to have any dearth of holy fire when he destroyed the pagan priests, 1 Kings 18:38, or the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah etc. Genesis 19:24
     
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