An Orthodox Christian Perspective on the End Times. Has anyone read this book? I found it to be a well balanced view of the End Times, the only detail I had problems with is the author referring to Russia as having such a key roll in the final events. Let me know what you think.
Ultimate Things (Orthodox View)
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JesusServant
do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER
Russia having a key roll in end time events is one of the few things I'm 100% sure on.
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Sorry. I meant that it will be the last country to preach the Truth of the Christian religion. The last strong hold of the Faith.
How can you be 100% sure of any end time event...that seems a little self righteous or prideful, I could have misunderstood your post as I often do within the bounds of forums.
Besides Scriptures teaches that it is not a matter of personal interpretation but a matter of the Church. 2 Pet. 1:20-21, Acts 8:21, 1 Tim. 3:15
In His Name
How can you be 100% sure of any end time event...that seems a little self righteous or prideful, I could have misunderstood your post as I often do within the bounds of forums.
Besides Scriptures teaches that it is not a matter of personal interpretation but a matter of the Church. 2 Pet. 1:20-21, Acts 8:21, 1 Tim. 3:15
In His Name
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JesusServant
do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER
Study Gog and Magog, also ask yourself, what is the large nation to the north of Israel both then and today spoken of in prophecy. I'm not saying "I'm the man, look what I know" I'm saying with as little as I'm sure of on future events, this is one thing I'm positive about, that Russia will be a key player in the very end (heck, it may not even be called Russia then, who knows).
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Many that said Russia in the 1980's are now saying China or Korea. Could it not be one of them? Korea has many Christians and China's Christian population is growing as well. Why not them?
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JesusServant
do not stray too far left nor right but CENTER
Study Gog and Magog from the OT. Do some research on them and then reference it to Revelation. You'll see what I'm referring too. Russia will attack the rebuilt Israel. It doesn't seem like it right now, but they will. I'm pretty open to viewpoints of eschatology. I am trying to figure out end times prophecy by process of elimination. I have eliminated the pre-tribulation rapture theory. I have eliminated the full preterist view. Now I'm working on Pre-wrath and Post-trib and seeing where that takes me 
I'm mostly studying the word and using historical references to figure this stuff out, not just what some dude wrote a book on. I can't be sure who "inspires" authors so I have to study it for myself as I suggest everyone do. God bless!
I'm mostly studying the word and using historical references to figure this stuff out, not just what some dude wrote a book on. I can't be sure who "inspires" authors so I have to study it for myself as I suggest everyone do. God bless!
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Rize
Well-Known Member
Magog is determined by ancestry. The author of The Sign, Robert Van Kampen, also goes to great lengths to explain that Russia will play a key role in end time events.
Apparently he thinks that the last thing that needs to happen before the 7 year treaty can be signed is that a leader will spring up in Russia (or some country in the area) and united a nearby Russian province or ethnic group with a "germanic" nation (interestingly, this prediction of prophecy was writting before the break up of the Soviet Union and the author acurately predicted that the Soviet Union would need to break up before this could be fulfilled).
So... if you see a leader in Russia unite with another Russion state and a "germanic" (basically white people ) state in the vicinity and then sign a peace treaty with Israel, you might want to start marking dates off on your calandar (like the treaty signing date + 1260 days which would be when the treaty is broken).
It's possible these authors may have the wrong nation pinned (but since it's partly geographical and partly lineage, the identity seems fairly certain).
Want to here something that's really nuts though?
Look at Revelation chapter 17. First of all, note that "the beast" can refer to the Anti-Christ specifically, and also his empire.
In 17:3 you see that it talks about the great prostitute and the beast with 7 heads and ten horns which is the AC's beast empire.
Then in 17:8 it says that the "beast" (the AC) "once was, now is not, and yet will come". This seems to refer to the resurrection of the Anti-Christ. He once was (existed once) now is not (died) and yet will come (revived). But it says that the world will be astonished by him. Unless they see him revive on television, he would have to be a recognizable person (which means that this saying would be said to John from a future perspective).
Revelation 17:9-11 seems to say that there have been 5 beast empires in the past, one currently (the roman empire) one to come (the 7th) and one more (the 8th which is the AC's empire).
Now, if the AC actually is a person revived from the dead, verse 11 seems to suggest that he will be one of the previous beast empire rulers who is revived. Revelation 13:3 substantiates this further.
So who will it be?
First, it would be good to identify all of the beast empires if possible.
Van Kampen, naturally, does this. He identifies essential characteristics of a beast empire and so finds them all. Or think she does.
The overriding characteristic seems to be that the beast empires were great persecuters of the Jews. The idea is that Satan, knowing that the Jews play an important role in the end of the world, wants to eliminate all of the Jews to thwart God's plans. Of course, he won't be allowed to do that. But if he rebelled in the first place, he can't be terribly bright.
So Van Kampen, with the help of Daniel 7:1-28, identifies all 7 beast empires as follows:
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greek
Roman
Now, the Roman empire brought about the great diaspora of the Jews so that they were not any longer in their homeland. This would make it difficult for a final beast empire to spring up and persecute the Jews. Of course, it happened anyway as we know.
Germany...
...played that rule to the hilt under the reign of Adolf Hitler. And immediately after WW2 (in part as restitution to the persecuted Jews) the Jews gathered again in their homeland setting the stage for the final beast empire and the events of the 70th week of Daniel.
Now we're just waiting for the 8th beast empire to form. That will require the three nation treaty (which leads up to a ten nation treaty). It's also possible that those aren't "nations" per se, but ethnic groups possibly within the same nations to some extent.
I'll quit rambling now.
Apparently he thinks that the last thing that needs to happen before the 7 year treaty can be signed is that a leader will spring up in Russia (or some country in the area) and united a nearby Russian province or ethnic group with a "germanic" nation (interestingly, this prediction of prophecy was writting before the break up of the Soviet Union and the author acurately predicted that the Soviet Union would need to break up before this could be fulfilled).
So... if you see a leader in Russia unite with another Russion state and a "germanic" (basically white people
) state in the vicinity and then sign a peace treaty with Israel, you might want to start marking dates off on your calandar (like the treaty signing date + 1260 days which would be when the treaty is broken).It's possible these authors may have the wrong nation pinned (but since it's partly geographical and partly lineage, the identity seems fairly certain).
Want to here something that's really nuts though?
Look at Revelation chapter 17. First of all, note that "the beast" can refer to the Anti-Christ specifically, and also his empire.
In 17:3 you see that it talks about the great prostitute and the beast with 7 heads and ten horns which is the AC's beast empire.
Then in 17:8 it says that the "beast" (the AC) "once was, now is not, and yet will come". This seems to refer to the resurrection of the Anti-Christ. He once was (existed once) now is not (died) and yet will come (revived). But it says that the world will be astonished by him. Unless they see him revive on television, he would have to be a recognizable person (which means that this saying would be said to John from a future perspective).
Revelation 17:9-11 seems to say that there have been 5 beast empires in the past, one currently (the roman empire) one to come (the 7th) and one more (the 8th which is the AC's empire).
Now, if the AC actually is a person revived from the dead, verse 11 seems to suggest that he will be one of the previous beast empire rulers who is revived. Revelation 13:3 substantiates this further.
So who will it be?
First, it would be good to identify all of the beast empires if possible.
Van Kampen, naturally, does this. He identifies essential characteristics of a beast empire and so finds them all. Or think she does.
The overriding characteristic seems to be that the beast empires were great persecuters of the Jews. The idea is that Satan, knowing that the Jews play an important role in the end of the world, wants to eliminate all of the Jews to thwart God's plans. Of course, he won't be allowed to do that. But if he rebelled in the first place, he can't be terribly bright.
So Van Kampen, with the help of Daniel 7:1-28, identifies all 7 beast empires as follows:
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greek
Roman
Now, the Roman empire brought about the great diaspora of the Jews so that they were not any longer in their homeland. This would make it difficult for a final beast empire to spring up and persecute the Jews. Of course, it happened anyway as we know.
Germany...
...played that rule to the hilt under the reign of Adolf Hitler. And immediately after WW2 (in part as restitution to the persecuted Jews) the Jews gathered again in their homeland setting the stage for the final beast empire and the events of the 70th week of Daniel.
Now we're just waiting for the 8th beast empire to form. That will require the three nation treaty (which leads up to a ten nation treaty). It's also possible that those aren't "nations" per se, but ethnic groups possibly within the same nations to some extent.
I'll quit rambling now.
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I'm not to sure about this Gog / Magog thing , isn't it only mentioned after the thousand years ?
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Rize
Well-Known Member
no. Gog and Magog are Old Testament, but also mentioned after the 1000 years.
However, Gog clearly refers to the Anti-Christ (who comes out of the nation/people Magog), and since the AC is tossed into the Lake of Fire before the mention of God and Magog after the 1000 years, this is somewhat of a misunderstanding.
How it is misunderstood, I don't know for sure.
However, Gog clearly refers to the Anti-Christ (who comes out of the nation/people Magog), and since the AC is tossed into the Lake of Fire before the mention of God and Magog after the 1000 years, this is somewhat of a misunderstanding.
How it is misunderstood, I don't know for sure.
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Oh Boy, not this again............
Where exactly does the Bible teach that Gog is the "Antichrist", or that Gog is where the "antichrist" comes from?
Where exactly does the Bible teach that the "Anti Christ" is thrown into the lake of fire?
Please be as specific as you can, and please use only the scriptures that teach explicitly about "antichrist", or if you intend to "infer" that a specific scripture is speaking of "antichrist", please show, using the explicit teaching on "antichrist", where and how the Bible teaches you to draw that infrence.
I'll make it easy for ya.
The following scriptures contain the entire teaching on "Antichrist" in scripture.
1 John 2:18
1 John 2:22
1 John 4:3
2 John 1:7
Please show how these scriptures teach what you claim.
Thanks in Christ,
LD
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