Ultimate Concern

[Resha Caner]

Do atheists have issues of ultimate concern? If so, what are they?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

What does "ultimate concern" mean?
Do you mean things we feel very strongly about? Things that are the most important in the world to us?

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Do atheists have issues of ultimate concern? If so, what are they?

I would assume their ultimate concerns would be with making this life/world as enjoyable as they can, as there isn't the assurance of a pleasant afterlife awaiting them; the life they get is a one-and-done deal.

 

[durangodawood]

Do atheists have issues of ultimate concern? If so, what are they?

Ultimate like this?

ul·ti·mate
/ˈəltəmət/
adjective
being or happening at the end of a process; final.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Ultimate like this?

ul·ti·mate
/ˈəltəmət/
adjective
being or happening at the end of a process; final.

I'm sorry, I'm still not sure what you mean. Do you mean, are we afraid of dying? Do you mean so we worry about what will happen after we die?

 

[durangodawood]

I'm sorry, I'm still not sure what you mean. Do you mean, are we afraid of dying? Do you mean so we worry about what will happen after we die?

Just trying to get a sense of what Rensha is asking about.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

Just trying to get a sense of what Rensha is asking about.

Oh, sorry, got mixed up and didn't look at the usernames.

So...do you know what Rensha means in her OP?

 

[durangodawood]

Oh, sorry, got mixed up and didn't look at the usernames.

So...do you know what Rensha means in her OP?

No I dont.

For Christians the "ultimate" issue (by the above definition) is where does my soul reside after death? Its like the last possible fork in the road, because heaven seems to be a place where nothing ever happens, to quote the Talking Heads.

 

[Resha Caner]

What does "ultimate concern" mean?

"Ultimate concern" is a concept that comes from Paul Tillich, and is an attempt to define religion in terms that separate it from gods and spirituality in the more traditional sense.

If you want my simplistic version of the idea, it's that for which you are willing to make sacrifices. For example, if your career is your ultimate concern, then you're willing to give up friends, family, hobbies, etc. to pursue your career. You might be willing to back stab - be OK with people hating you.

If you're not OK with that, then you have more than one ultimate concern. Maybe career and morality are two of your ultimate concerns. Then life becomes about how to balance those two ultimate concerns. What will you sacrifice in your career to uphold morality? What will you sacrifice in morality to succeed in your career?

(FYI, I'm male. And if you're going to shorten it, refer to me as "Caner", not "Resha". But I understand my name doesn't fit the normal conventions, so I've gotten used to all the different ways people utilize my name. It's no big deal.)

 

[Resha Caner]

I would assume their ultimate concerns would be with making this life/world as enjoyable as they can, as there isn't the assurance of a pleasant afterlife awaiting them; the life they get is a one-and-done deal.

Yes, I see a lot of utilitarianism in atheist comments on how they think the world should operate.

Actually, though, as a thumb in the atheist eye, what I see a lot in this particular forum is that unbelievers swarm when there's a Christian position to criticize, but don't engage much at all when the topic requires something other than criticizing Christians.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Yes, I see a lot of utilitarianism in atheist comments on how they think the world should operate.

Actually, though, as a thumb in the atheist eye, what I see a lot in this particular forum is that unbelievers swarm when there's a Christian position to criticize, but don't engage much at all when the topic requires something other than criticizing Christians.

That happens on both sides. Unfortunately, I've witnessed many genuinely curious atheists here willing to have civil debates be subject to assumptions, ad hominem and criticism by Christians as well.

I think both sides have an issue with turning everything into an 'us vs them' scenario.

 

[Resha Caner]

I think both sides have an issue with turning everything into an 'us vs them' scenario.

True, though of course that's never been a problem for me.

 

[Ophiolite]

Actually, though, as a thumb in the atheist eye, what I see a lot in this particular forum is that unbelievers swarm when there's a Christian position to criticize, but don't engage much at all when the topic requires something other than criticizing Christians.

My observation is that, for the most part, the atheist's criticisms are directed primarily at Christian fundamentalists and that those same fundamentalists are also criticised by fellow Christians for their anti-science views. There are exceptions of course, but these seem rare.

In the same way, most of the criticism of atheist views or alleged morals comes from fundamentalists.

As to your OP question, I can best answer by asking you a question in return: how much water will fit in a container? I hope it is obvious that that depends on the container and they exist in great diversity.

 

[durangodawood]

"Ultimate concern" is a concept that comes from Paul Tillich, and is an attempt to define religion in terms that separate it from gods and spirituality in the more traditional sense.

If you want my simplistic version of the idea, it's that for which you are willing to make sacrifices. For example, if your career is your ultimate concern, then you're willing to give up friends, family, hobbies, etc. to pursue your career. You might be willing to back stab - be OK with people hating you.

If you're not OK with that, then you have more than one ultimate concern. Maybe career and morality are two of your ultimate concerns. Then life becomes about how to balance those two ultimate concerns. What will you sacrifice in your career to uphold morality? What will you sacrifice in morality to succeed in your career?

(FYI, I'm male. And if you're going to shorten it, refer to me as "Caner", not "Resha". But I understand my name doesn't fit the normal conventions, so I've gotten used to all the different ways people utilize my name. It's no big deal.)

So when I say:

For Christians the "ultimate" issue (by the above definition) is where does my soul reside after death? Its like the last possible fork in the road, because heaven seems to be a place where nothing ever happens, to quote the Talking Heads.

It looks like I'm not aligned with your idea of ultimate. I'm talking about final, last, "ultimate" per the primary dictionary definition. But youre talking about greatest, or something like that. (?)

 

[Resha Caner]

It looks like I'm not aligned with your idea of ultimate. I'm talking about final, last, "ultimate" per the primary dictionary definition. But youre talking about greatest, or something like that. (?)

Yes, I was thinking more in terms of "greatest", but death does seem to be a big one on many people's list.

As to your OP question, I can best answer by asking you a question in return: how much water will fit in a container? I hope it is obvious that that depends on the container and they exist in great diversity.

OK. You're free to add your droplet to the bucket.

 

[Ophiolite]

OK. You're free to add your droplet to the bucket.

My point, perhaps, was missed. There is likely such a diversity of views as to the "ultimate issue" for atheists that the handful of such views you can gather here will be as useful as a lump of coal in a Maserati. But, on the off chance that it might help your purpose: my ultimate issue would be on how best to have as positive an impact upon the future of the planet as possible.

 

[Resha Caner]

My point, perhaps, was missed. There is likely such a diversity of views as to the "ultimate issue" for atheists that the handful of such views you can gather here will be as useful as a lump of coal in a Maserati. But, on the off chance that it might help your purpose: my ultimate issue would be on how best to have as positive an impact upon the future of the planet as possible.

My goal is not to summarize atheist belief. Rather, having a conversation about your specific goal (as well as others who might care to participate) is more interesting to me.

What do you consider to be a positive impact on the planet?

 

[Ophiolite]

My goal is not to summarize atheist belief. Rather, having a conversation about your specific goal (as well as others who might care to participate) is more interesting to me.

What do you consider to be a positive impact on the planet?

The list is endless, from helping little old ladies across the road, through helping junior employees realise their potential, to addressing the issue of climate change. I can go on for pages. Is that what you want? I don't see how it helps, but if it does I'll offer as many random samples as you like, or specific examples.

Or I can let you imagine the list by noting that I am, by nature and choice, a sceptical, left wing, tree hugging, agnostic, social leaning, animal respecting, scientifically inclined regular guy. There are many activities held by the likes of me that should have a positive impact on the planet; you are probably familiar with many of them.

I'm not trying to be unhelpful - quite the reverse - but the nature of positively impacting the planet does not, from my perspective, lead to simple and straightforward answers to your questions.

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm not trying to be unhelpful - quite the reverse - but the nature of positively impacting the planet does not, from my perspective, lead to simple and straightforward answers to your questions.

Sure. I'm not disagreeing. Life is complicated from my perspective as well, but we seem to spend a lot of time discussing how and why the Christian world view is what it is. I just thought it might be interesting to talk a little about the the perspective of those who sit on the other side of the aisle. If you've no idea how to approach such a conversation, I guess we'll just move on.

Maybe my lesson is that I should answer as you have above when people ask me about being Christian. It's complicated.

 

[Ophiolite]

If you've no idea how to approach such a conversation, I guess we'll just move on.

I gave you some examples and offered a suggestion or two. I was looking for some guidance from you as to which, if any, came close to beginning to address your quest. Am I wrong in thinking, from your response, that none of them did?