UK Election

[Goonie]

It is funny that Cameron called a referendum on Brexit to resolve the split within the Tory party and it has just spiralled downhill from there with one bad decision after another.

And the brexit negotiations begin in a week. Anybody accusing Corbyn of not being competent of negotiating brexit need to take a look at the record of Tory decision making.

 

[Goonie]

And given the Good Friday Agreement how can Theresa May enter into an agreement with the DUP in the first place. Oh wait a minute she cannot without tearing it up, since the govt are required as part of the agreement to be even handed, an impossibility if they have any deal with the DUP.

 

[mindlight]

Got to say it is looking debatable as to whether Theresa May will survive the first confidence vote. She has already been forced to backtrack on a formal coalition because even her fellow Tories find them unpalatable.

There will be a new election by end of year.

A confidence and supply arrangement that asks for their support for key no confidence motions or budgets is looking likely. Also the absence of SinnFein from Westminster means that survival is possible even without them.

This morning I got the German populist paper the Bild. It had a small insert on page 3 about the election in the UK. The view here seems to be that the EU holds all the cards for these negotiations. The arrogant indifference says it all. Corbyns success in not being defeating by so much as last time but still losing is not good for Britain and it is now time to stop concentrating on party politics to secure the best deal for Britain

 

[Kalevalatar]

That is a hopeful position to take. Juncker seems to talk in more punitive terms towards the UK. But yes ideally we want an arrangement that works for the EU and for the UK and allows us to stay friends. Right now I am most worried about my own status as a UK national in Europe. If I take a German passport (dual nationality) will I lose my British one eventually when someone in Germany gets angry with the Brits later on or would I be able to simply get rid of my German passport at that point and struggle on as a Brit in Europe.

From "our man from Brussels" (who happens to be married to a Brit and whose own kids have dual citizenships):

UK election: Take a deep breath and a Brexit timeout

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, is correct in saying that the EU is ready to begin whenever the UK is ready. The Union could take it a step further and call for a timeout.

Brexit was self-inflicted, we do not need to make things worse from the outside. Give the UK time to sort itself out. If Britain is ready, the EU will be ready.

 

[mark46]

I think that Tories would like to have Osborne back. Unfortunately, he is now out of politics.

 

[Dave RP]

It is funny that Cameron called a referendum on Brexit to resolve the split within the Tory party and it has just spiralled downhill from there with one bad decision after another.

And the brexit negotiations begin in a week. Anybody accusing Corbyn of not being competent of negotiating brexit need to take a look at the record of Tory decision making.

We have no negotiating stance, we will just have to hope that some sort of non destructive deal will be possible. Personally I'm still hoping for a late decision to join the EEA of EFTA.

Corbyn did well, but against an appalling PM and a terrible manifesto. His test will be in the next campaign, where it is known that he is not just a protest vote, where the incumbent Government will know what to expect and can put his ludicrous spending plans under proper scrutiny (which did not happen in this election) and where they will put together a much better considered manifesto. Remember that even against the worst PM and worst campaign in memory labour still came a fairly distant 2nd. I find it hard to believe that a majority will vote for the extreme left and economically impossible Labour promises if faced with waht looks like a competent Tory party with a proper leader.

 

[Goonie]

We have no negotiating stance, we will just have to hope that some sort of non destructive deal will be possible. Personally I'm still hoping for a late decision to join the EEA of EFTA.

Corbyn did well, but against an appalling PM and a terrible manifesto. His test will be in the next campaign, where it is known that he is not just a protest vote, where the incumbent Government will know what to expect and can put his ludicrous spending plans under proper scrutiny (which did not happen in this election) and where they will put together a much better considered manifesto. Remember that even against the worst PM and worst campaign in memory labour still came a fairly distant 2nd. I find it hard to believe that a majority will vote for the extreme left and economically impossible Labour promises if faced with waht looks like a competent Tory party with a proper leader.

Agreed, though those saying any other labour leader would have beaten May, I think are ignoring the fact that any other leader, say Owen smith, would likely have failed to motivate the youth vote, and put off ukip voters with a far more avowedly remain platform.

But yes in another election any competent Tory campaign would open with a far better thought out costed manifesto, and attacked labour on the economy, with a leader who does not run away from debate. Also I suspect any new election might be called in university holiday time.

 

[NJA]

May tells MPs: I got us into this mess and I will get us out

 

[Dave RP]

She could get out of the mess of a badly tied up shoelace........

 

[Skavau]

Cool , sounds like they might keep the immoral Metropolitans in check.

So you're happy with a government actively hostile and insulting to gay people?

 

[Skavau]

Sinn Fein do not vote so it is an effective majority of 328 versus 315 (13 seats). But unfortunately this still gives enormous power to backbench nutters who do not know when to shut up for the good of the country. It is going to be a tumultuous few years

The vote in England was skewed by young people turning up to the polls with a Leftist and Remain agenda. Seats like Kennsington were lost because of the "revenge of the Remainers". Political opportunism hardly worked out last time did it. The big risk here is allowing a resurgent Corbyn (I still cannot get my head around the stupidity of that) to be PM and do the BREXIT negotiations.

I'm not sure how a vote can be skewed by legal voters turning up and voting.

 

[Skavau]

I think May caused this electoral defeat. She was robotic, arrogant and outright scared people with her comments on human rights and the internet. She tried to frame the election in terms of Brexit, but that is not how people voted.

She came across as horrific, and it cost her.

 

[Goonie]

I think May caused this electoral defeat. She was robotic, arrogant and outright scared people with her comments on human rights and the internet. She tried to frame the election in terms of Brexit, but that is not how people voted.

She came across as horrific, and it cost her.

Sadly it looks Like attacking the internet and human rights is going to be part of the queens speech.

 

[Dave RP]

So you're happy with a government actively hostile and insulting to gay people?

Sorry but you are being ridiculous, the Government is not hostile or insulting to gay people, they introduced Gay marriage for example. Any deal with the DUP will not change any laws relating to gay rights in the UK, Northern Ireland already has different laws and that will not change.

 

[Skavau]

Sorry but you are being ridiculous, the Government is not hostile or insulting to gay people, they introduced Gay marriage for example. Any deal with the DUP will not change any laws relating to gay rights in the UK, Northern Ireland already has different laws and that will not change.

I was talking about mindlight's attitude to the prospect of the DUP being so.

 

[mindlight]

So you're happy with a government actively hostile and insulting to gay people?

Firstly these conservatives passed the gay marriage law so your finger should probably be pointed at me and the DUP rather than the Tory government.

Second let's translate what you said into terms that make more sense. Am I happy with a government that has actively promoted dysfunctional people making dysfunctional commitments that undermine the sanctity of the institution of marriage and enshrined their sin and the stupidity of political correctness into law? The answer to that question is a clear no.

 

[mindlight]

I'm not sure how a vote can be skewed by legal voters turning up and voting.

Younger people normally do not vote despite their passionate denunciations of whichever government is in place. It was a miscalculation by the Tories to underestimate the passions and desperation that allowed many of them to be deluded into voting Labour. Some of these forces like for example a desire to remain in Europe rather than burning our bridges with a hard brexit were understandable but probably wishful thinking in the light of the coming negotiation process. Some of these forces are a result of the Labour partys extension of higher education beyond the capacity of the economy to support and some are to do with the pressure on house prices due to unlimited immigration that exclude young people from the market. Into that context people were able to distort perfectly reasonable measures like those dealing with terrorists and perverts that might require more controls on human rights laws and the internet.

 

[Skavau]

Firstly these conservatives passed the gay marriage law so your finger should probably be pointed at me and the DUP rather than the Tory government.

It was.

Second let's translate what you said into terms that make more sense. Am I happy with a government that has actively promoted dysfunctional people making dysfunctional commitments that undermine the sanctity of the institution of marriage and enshrined their sin and the stupidity of political correctness into law? The answer to that question is a clear no.

So you're happy, instead, with a government that might potentially roll back LGBT rights?

 

[Skavau]

Younger people normally do not vote despite their passionate denunciations of whichever government is in place. It was a miscalculation by the Tories to underestimate the passions and desperation that allowed many of them to be deluded into voting Labour.

They're still legitimate voters, despite their unusually high turnout.

Some of these forces like for example a desire to remain in Europe rather than burning our bridges with a hard brexit were understandable but probably wishful thinking in the light of the coming negotiation process. Some of these forces are a result of the Labour partys extension of higher education beyond the capacity of the economy to support and some are to do with the pressure on house prices due to unlimited immigration that exclude young people from the market. Into that context people were able to distort perfectly reasonable measures like those dealing with terrorists and perverts that might require more controls on human rights laws and the internet.

Theresa May spoke about banning encryption, instituting a ban or regulation of "fake news" (a disturbing premise indeed), spoke of imposing adult content filters on all 18+ websites (not sure what that entails either) with the implied threat of blocking websites that did not conform, and did not rule out the prospect of trying to build a Great Firewall not unlike China's internet.

 

[Goonie]

They're still legitimate voters, despite their unusually high turnout.


Theresa May spoke about banning encryption, instituting a ban or regulation of "fake news" (a disturbing premise indeed), spoke of imposing adult content filters on all 18+ websites (not sure what that entails either) with the implied threat of blocking websites that did not conform, and did not rule out the prospect of trying to build a Great Firewall not unlike China's internet.

Sadly this is still likely to be in the queens speech. Though how they intend to criminalise non violent extremism when DUP MPs are on record just this year supporting the genocide of Catholics in Northern Ireland, and in the 90's supporting terrorist groups advocating holding the catholic population hostage.
Meet the DUP MPs who now hold the balance of power