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UK COVID Hospital Admissions Data is Fraudulent

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by JustSomeBloke, Jul 30, 2021.

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  1. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Well-Known Member Supporter

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    More than half of Covid hospital patients ‘only tested positive after admission’

    More than half of Covid hospitalisations are of patients who only tested positive after they were admitted, it has been reported.


    Leaked data of all NHS trusts in England suggests statistics for the virus could be overstating the pressures faced by the health service.


    It means many patients categorised as Covid patients may have actually been admitted with other ailments, with the virus detected through routine testing.


    As of last Thursday, 44% of patients classed as being hospitalised with coronavirus has tested positive by the time they arrived at hospital, according to data seen by the Telegraph.


    A further 43% tested positive within two days of admission, while 13% were diagnosed in the days and weeks that followed.


    Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, has urged the Government to publish clearer data.


    He called on the Department of Health to specify whether Covid was the primary reason for people being admitted so that people aren’t painted a misleading picture.

    I wish I could say I was surprised. But the reality is that this is the kind of thing I've come to expect. Everything COVID-related is always recorded and evaluated in the way that makes the problem seem far worse than it is. I wonder what other COVID-related frauds and scams are still to be uncovered?
     
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  2. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    Since @JustSomeBloke has a clear agenda, and some members prefer a more measured approach to the news, they might like to consider this BBC article on the subject. It offers a different perspective on the subject.
     
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  3. comana

    comana Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I don’t understand the problem here. Patients who test positive for COVID are recorded as such.
     
  4. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Thanks for the counter balance @Ophiolite.

    The OP is a little melodramatic.

    OB
     
  5. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    You are welcome. I suspect that when one is preaching to the gullible then melodramatic is seen as a benefit.
     
  6. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The problem is that the data was presented to the public in a highly misleading manner. Over half of those who were admitted to hospital with covid were not admitted to hospital because of health issues related to covid. Do you think that covid hospital admissions data should include people who were admitted to hospital because they had broken their leg, and subsequently tested positive for covid? Because that's effectively what has been done. It's fraudulent, misleading, and it does not truly represent the number of people who need hospital treatment solely because of a covid infection.

    Yes, I do have a clear agenda. And that agenda is to expose the fraud and lies associated with covid-alarmism and the pro-vaxx movement. Your agenda appears to be the exact opposite of that.

    That's just a damage-limitation, spin-piece, hastily put together after the people who gather the covid data got caught misleading the public.

    And I don't know why you would want to trust the BBC. They've been taking money from an organisation that has a very covid-alarmist, pro-vaxx agenda. So it's obvious that they're going to dance to the covid-alarmism, pro-vaxx tune.

    How about the Guardian? The publisher that prides itself on being independent, and being free to challenge anything and anyone. Nope, they've been taking money from the piper, so they too will dance to his tune.

    What about the Telegraph? That pillar of conservative thought. No, they're in the web of control too. And interestingly, they received a very similar amount to The Guardian.

    The World Health Organisation has also accepted huge sums of money from the same source. So I certainly wouldn't trust them on anything. Just look at the way they have behaved over the investigation into the origins of the covid virus.

    As you seem to trust the BBC so much, I'm guessing you're probably not aware of any of this. If that is the case, then I suggest that you educate yourself as to the people who are using their money to influence the MSM. But I warn you, your head will likely explode when you realise the extent of the control and influence. So maybe best to just stick your head in the sand, and pretend none of this is happening.
     
  7. HantsUK

    HantsUK Newbie

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    So?
    You are taken ill, and it is sufficiently serious that you are admitted to hospital, where you are then tested to find out or confirm the cause(s). All that these figures are indicating is how quickly or slowly serious cases of Covid develop.

    To me, it seems surprising that nearly half of those admitted to hospital for Covid had already been tested positive before going to hospital. Their symptoms must have started relatively mild, and then worsened after being tested.

    I wonder what proportion of other illnesses are positively tested before being admitted to hospital?
     
  8. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    The BBC, is not perfect, but it has an excellent reputation for informed reporting. Here is the bottom line, the line that you refuse to acknowledge.
    (Full disclosure - it's several lines.)
    • Covid is real - Covid can and does kill people - Covid can and does cause permanent damage
    • Hospilitisations caused by this place strain on the NHS that compromise its ability to deal with non-Covid patients, thereby introducing another source of death and damage
    • Several clinically tested vaccines have been demonstrated to reduce
      • The risk of infection
      • The risk of hospilitisation
      • The risk of permanent damage
      • The risk of death
    • The precise way we gather and report statistics do not alter those basic facts
    • Individuals, groups and organisations who deny this are contributing to the persistence of the pandemic and are complicit in the deaths and damage that Covid causes
    So, you are quite correct. I have an explicit agenda. I am in favour of reacognising the severity of the pandemic and listening to and carefully considering the advice of experts. I am not in favour of listening to emotionally loaded, cherry picking rants from anonymous voices on the internet. You may reasonably infer which group I think you fall into.
     
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  9. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Seriously? You are telling us that the BBC, the Telegraph, the Guardian, the World Health Organisation and (no doubt) the NHS and the Government, are all part of some nefarious plot to inflate Covid numbers for the purpose of ... what?

    Now, if you had said it was all made up by the Daily Mail, I might have believed you....;)

    OB
     
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  10. HantsUK

    HantsUK Newbie

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    Where do you get these figures?

    That is not what the article that you quoted states. It has no data on the presenting reasons for admission, just an insinuation that many patients may have had been admitted for other reasons, and then been tested for positive Covid. I agree that the 13% who tested positive more than 2 days after admission looks like they may have been admitted for other reasons. But again, without knowing the initial cause for admission, this is speculation.
     
  11. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    "Fraudulent" would imply that they are lying or falsifying test results...is that what you're asserting is going on here?

    Testing people for the most prevalent, current, transmissible disease after admission is prudent protocol.

    We're talking about people who are in a hospital...a building full of weak, sick, and potentially immunocompromised people.

    People who test positive, even if they were initally admitted for another reason, doesn't make them any less covid-positive (and a potential risk to others if not properly isolated to the appropriate ward)


    That's like saying that if a cop pulls you over for your tail light being out, but then gives you a breathalyzer, and you blow 0.12, "that shouldn't really count as drunk driving, because you were stopped for a different reason"

    Incidental discovery is still a valid discovery none the less...
     
  12. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    Agreed. In addition, some of those admitted for "another reason" may be suffering from a condition caused, or exacerbated by Covid. It would be interesting to know if any attempt has been made to quantity that. I don't expect it would be a large percentage, on the other hand it might identify other symptoms to be on the lookout for.
     
  13. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    Correct...

    I've heard squabbles about this topic before from people who seemingly want to suggest that if a person goes to the hospital and gives any reason besides "I'm here because I have covid symptoms" at the admissions desk, that any subsequent testing shouldn't be counted.

    For doctors to make the most informed decision they can, they need all of the information they can possibly get.

    Heck,
    It's the reason why when a woman presents with certain symptoms at an ER or Doctors office, one of the first things they'll do is a pregnancy test.

    If a woman is nauseous, having stomach pains, loss of appetite, etc... having that information is the difference between referring them to an OBGYN, or doing an abdomen CT scan (which could cause risks for a pregnant woman)
     
  14. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    My brother is a police officer. He was called to the scene of a fatal DUI accident. A couple days later he had to drive to the coroner's office to pick up some paperwork for his report. The coroner had tested the dead body for covid and the test was positive. COVID-19 was listed as an underlying cause of death.

    That is a true story.
     
  15. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    That is a partial anecdote.
    Here is an imagined extension of that anecdote.

    The deceased had just learned they had Covid. They had feared this from the start of the pandemic. This was cofirmed by friends, family and employer. Distraught they had consumed a bottle of Jack Daniels then tried to drive to see a friend when the fatal accident occurred.
    In that situation it would be perfectly reasonable for the coroner to record Covid as the underlying cause of death: no covid, no distraught mental condition, no Jack Daniels.


    That is not a true story, but since it more comprehensive than yours it is at least as valuable. Which is to say, not very. I hope you would agree.
     
  16. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    My post was a statement of facts. No conclusions, no hypotheticals, no speculation.
     
  17. JustSomeBloke

    JustSomeBloke Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm not denying that. I never have.

    Just because someone tests positive after admission for a broken leg, doesn't mean they're a covid patient who requires treatment for covid. It's no different from the fact that the vast majority of people who become infected with covid require absolutely no medical intervention whatsoever, and can make a complete recovery without ever setting foot in a hospital. Are you unable to understand that? It really is quite basic. I don't think I can make it any simpler or easier to understand.

    Hahahahahahaha! Do you mean the study written entirely by Israeli Ministry of Health employees and Pfizer employees? What a joke! The journal paper even listed their conflicts of interest, and people still believe it all!

    Hahahahahaha!

    Hahahahahahaha!

    I've shown you the money trail. I'm not the one who's foolish if you choose to look the other way.

    The article states that the data was leaked. I guess that means there's someone in the Civil Service, NHS, or some other part of the covid reporting system who didn't like the way the data was being used in a misleading manner. The government's reported reaction to this leak also suggests that the data was genuine, and that they acknowledge that the way the data was presented was misleading.

    After hearing of the leak, Commons science and technology select committee chairman Greg Clark said he would write to Health Secretary Sajid Javid to ask for a regular breakdown to be shared with the public.


    He added: ‘If hospitalisations from Covid are a key determinant of how concerned we should be, and how quickly restrictions should be lifted, it’s important that the data is not presented in a way that could lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn.’


    You might like to also consider that the government seems quite keen on locking up journalists who publish leaked data*. Gee! I wonder why that could be! Maybe the government are getting scared about what might happen when all the other covid lies and half-truths are fully exposed.

    * Yes, it's a Daily Mail link. I don't want to hear anyone's pathetic whining about that! Get over it! Or just go and find the exact same story reported at numerous other news providers.

    Don't give up the regular job. You're not quite ready to be an award-winning novelist.

    The government have all but admitted that they may have been misleading the public. It's right there in the article.

    After hearing of the leak, Commons science and technology select committee chairman Greg Clark said he would write to Health Secretary Sajid Javid to ask for a regular breakdown to be shared with the public.


    He added: ‘If hospitalisations from Covid are a key determinant of how concerned we should be, and how quickly restrictions should be lifted, it’s important that the data is not presented in a way that could lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn.’

    Translation: Oops! We got caught! We'll have to find another way to keep the covid fear going!
     
  18. Occams Barber

    Occams Barber Newbie Supporter

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    Your statement is basically anecdotal hearsay. It may well have happened as you describe, but it's also quite possible that your Br in Law misunderstood or was misinformed.

    Death Certs often include underlying conditions as possible contributors to the death as well as a primary cause. There is also some Covid testing of dead people although my understanding is that it usually needs to be justified by a reasonable suspicion that Covid may have contributed to the death. It would seem unlikely that a Coroner would go to the cost and trouble of administering a post mortem Covid test where a death was obviously the result of a car accident.

    I'm not saying you're wrong but on the balance of probability I would be cautious.

    OB
     
  19. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    I have no reason to be cautious of it. It is part of a written report signed by a coroner.
     
  20. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy Part of the IT crowd Supporter

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    That's not the real translation though...

    If a 24 year old gets admitted to the hospital with a broken arm from a car accident, and tests positive for covid, they shouldn't be put in a shared room with a 68 year old diabetic. The doctors need to know that.

    Otherwise, they end up making the same kinds of mistakes that Andrew Cuomo made early in the pandemic (which the US-right in America were all to quick to point out with regards to his early handling of Covid)

    I would agree that "Hospitalizations from Covid" should be considered distinct from "Hospitalizations with Covid" with regards to certain metrics of risk calculation...but "Hospitalizations with Covid" still need to be considered with regards to patient care.

    I wouldn't stick an asymptomatic 24 year old (who tested positive) in a room with a 68 year old who's being treated for heart disease complications.
     
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