UD Health Care II

[Jan Volkes]

I do not understand why Americans are not marching in the streets protesting at the state of US health care, millions and millions of Americans are suffering because the system is failing them, many hundreds of thousands of people are going bankrupt because of medical bills and tens of thousand of people are dying because they can not afford ongoing health care.

NB.
US health care was closed by the mods because of flaming and goading so please watch
what you write, as will I.

 

[Armoured]

I do not understand why Americans are not marching in the streets protesting at the state of US health care,

Because Americans have important things to work themselves up about, like the pros and cons of the Confederate Flag, and same sex marriage.

No one cares about that nuanced political issue nonsense! We got us dichotomous political sides to choose!

 

[Jan Volkes]

Because Americans have important things to work themselves up about, like the pros and cons of the Confederate Flag, and same sex marriage.

No one cares about that nuanced political issue nonsense! We got us dichotomous political sides to choose!

I thought the flag business was already put to bed and the SSM was passed, could we at least talk about the little things?

I understand that most Americans are completely unaware of what is happening in the US every day especially the ones who think they have health insurance through their jobs, people who are not employed must either pay for their own insurance or go without, most are unable to pay so they [and their families] go without and face at best huge bills or at worst death.

I think it's at least worth having a chat about, admittedly nothing is going to change because the big insurance companies won't allow things to change, they're making way too much money for that to happen, dying Americans are not something they worry about, their share holders are their top priority.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Healthcare is viewed as a commodity in america, not a personal right or freedom. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Jan Volkes]

Healthcare is viewed as a commodity in america, not a personal right or freedom. Why is that so hard to understand?

It's so hard to understand because tens of thousands of Americans are dying needlessly simple because it is viewed as a commodity, don't Americans care what happens to their fellow Americans?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Ok let me explain the problem that became of the america healthcare system.

We used to have free healthcare hospitals, but the introduction of health insurance changed all that. I believe the free healthcare clinics and hospitals are all but a memory now. Where did health insurance come from? It was originally introduced by the US government for its employees. When the doctors realized they could charge whatever they wanted uncontested they did exactly that. Americans, which probably like most of the western world, do the same association: if it costs more it must be better. So americans figured the doctors they paid for were better than the free healthcare clinics that dotted the landscape. I mean really, why would you go and wait for hours in free healthcare clinics, who had obviously bad doctors...when you could pay for a good doctor and get seen right now? Americans still associate it just like that. In fact people who jump to defend our healthcare system will in fact bring up the reality that they make a call.. and they see the doctor then. All the businesses that the medical ..if I day say it... industry sprung up.. as they found out they too could charge whatever they wanted to health insurance companies. Health insurance in american has created a inflation monster of ridiculous proportions. A hospital bed cost like $70-80 a day in 1970-75.. now it is well over $1300. I don't have a real solution to the problem. I am just pointing out that it is a problem.

 

[Jan Volkes]

Ok let me explain the problem that became of the america healthcare system.

We used to have free healthcare hospitals, but the introduction of health insurance changed all that. I believe the free healthcare clinics and hospitals are all but a memory now. Where did health insurance come from? It was originally introduced by the US government for its employees. When the doctors realized they could charge whatever they wanted uncontested they did exactly that. Americans, which probably like most of the western world, do the same association: if it costs more it must be better. So americans figured the doctors they paid for were better than the free healthcare clinics that dotted the landscape. I mean really, why would you go and wait for hours in free healthcare clinics, who had obviously bad doctors...when you could pay for a good doctor and get seen right now? Americans still associate it just like that. In fact people who jump to defend our healthcare system will in fact bring up the reality that they make a call.. and they see the doctor then. All the businesses that the medical ..if I day say it... industry sprung up.. as they found out they too could charge whatever they wanted to health insurance companies. Health insurance in american has created a inflation monster of ridiculous proportions. A hospital bed cost like $70-80 a day in 1970-75.. now it is well over $1300. I don't have a real solution to the problem. I am just pointing out that it is a problem.

Everyone can see it's a problem for the US but here's the rub........... the other rich industrialised countries have already solved the problems and it won't cost the US a penny to copy one of them.

70% of Americans when asked said they would like to have a single payer health care system, what happened? nothing,
why? why do you think?.........
"I am making an absolute fortune out of medical insurance and you want me to give it up just like that without a fight?
from my cold dead hands."

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Everyone can see it's a problem for the US but here's the rub........... the other rich industrialised countries have already solved the problems and it won't cost the US a penny to copy one of them.

70% of Americans when asked said they would like to have a single payer health care system, what happened? nothing,
why? why do you think?.........
"I am making an absolute fortune out of medical insurance and you want me to give it up just like that without a fight?
from my cold dead hands."

I brought this up in your last thread and I will repeat it. We have like 3x the population of european nations. We don't have enough doctors to handle the sudden change. we would first have to flood the market with doctors before we instituted such a system.. which would take 10+ years to get all these doctors in. If we don't the system will be overloaded and crumble and those who are in defense of the current system will be quick to say "see? it doesn't work.' and then dismantle it and return back to the old system that 'works" I wouldn't be surprised if the AMA lobbies to protect our current system as they profit the most out of our existing system.

 

[Armoured]

I thought the flag business was already put to bed and the SSM was passed, could we at least talk about the little things?

I understand that most Americans are completely unaware of what is happening in the US every day especially the ones who think they have health insurance through their jobs, people who are not employed must either pay for their own insurance or go without, most are unable to pay so they [and their families] go without and face at best huge bills or at worst death.

I think it's at least worth having a chat about, admittedly nothing is going to change because the big insurance companies won't allow things to change, they're making way too much money for that to happen, dying Americans are not something they worry about, their share holders are their top priority.

No! We must discuss the Confederate Flag more! Also, the TRUE abominable injustice of America today, Christian bakers forced to bake gay wedding cakes!

 

[Armoured]

I brought this up in your last thread and I will repeat it. We have like 3x the population of european nations. We don't have enough doctors to handle the sudden change. we would first have to flood the market with doctors before we instituted such a system.. which would take 10+ years to get all these doctors in. If we don't the system will be overloaded and crumble and those who are in defense of the current system will be quick to say "see? it doesn't work.' and then dismantle it and return back to the old system that 'works" I wouldn't be surprised if the AMA lobbies to protect our current system as they profit the most out of our existing system.

So, is it your position there simply aren't enough doctors in America to treat all the sick people?

 

[Jan Volkes]

I brought this up in your last thread and I will repeat it. We have like 3x the population of european nations. We don't have enough doctors to handle the sudden change. we would first have to flood the market with doctors before we instituted such a system.. which would take 10+ years to get all these doctors in. If we don't the system will be overloaded and crumble and those who are in defense of the current system will be quick to say "see? it doesn't work.' and then dismantle it and return back to the old system that 'works" I wouldn't be surprised if the AMA lobbies to protect our current system as they profit the most out of our existing system.

I agree it's hopeless, it's a pity but people will just have to carry on dying because the problem is just too big to solve,
what the US needs is a wartime spirit to bring back that "can do" attitude.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

So, is it your position there simply aren't enough doctors in America to treat all the sick people?

I don't really have a count, it is just a theory off the top of my head. I also think they might be unevenly distributed.. at least the ones we do have. Since it is viewed as a commodity, doctors will pick locations where they can charge the most and have the fewer patients. There are usually more doctors in areas of higher income, from my understanding, than say the "bad side" of town. because medicare/medicaid gives them so little money for all the trouble they go through with so many patients of lower income.

Med school is also expensive and hard.. which might be a reason why doctors today charge so much to begin with.. to survive and pull themselves out of the ridiculous student debt.

 

[Armoured]

I don't really have a count, it is just a theory off the top of my head. I also think they might be unevenly distributed.. at least the ones we do have. Since it is viewed as a commodity, doctors will pick locations where they can charge the most and have the fewer patients. There are usually more doctors in areas of higher income, from my understanding, than say the "bad side" of town. because medicare/medicaid gives them so little money for all the trouble they go through with so many patients of lower income.

Med school is also expensive and hard.. which might be a reason why doctors today charge so much to begin with.. to survive and pull themselves out of the ridiculous student debt.

Soooo... suggestions?

 

[Jan Volkes]

No! We must discuss the Confederate Flag more! Also, the TRUE abominable injustice of America today, Christian bakers forced to bake gay wedding cakes!

You have made me feel bad for even raising the subject of people dying because of the US health system, sorry.
I can see how people would find things like that more important, not being an American I did not realise where the priorities
should lie, I feel like an old world fool.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Soooo... suggestions?

I suggested it in a previous thread, but maybe if we take advantage of the "capitalistic" healthcare system by the state paying for med school.. doctors "pay back" the state by having to volunteer 2-4 years of their time in the lower income hospitals. Since they won't have student loan debt it won't be as bad. Then as the market floods with doctors, they will eventually have to lower costs in order to compete with one another.

 

[Jan Volkes]

I suggested it in a previous thread, but maybe if we take advantage of the "capitalistic" healthcare system by the state paying for med school.. doctors "pay back" the state by having to volunteer 2-4 years of their time in the lower income hospitals. Since they won't have student loan debt it won't be as bad. Then as the market floods with doctors, they will eventually have to lower costs in order to compete with one another.

I was going to suggest that the US recruits doctors and surgeons from abroad until I read this:

Today, immigrants make up a sizeable proportion of the U.S. health care workforce.
In 2010, the foreign born accounted for 16 percent of all civilians employed in health care occupations in the United States.
In some health care professions, this share was larger.
More than one-quarter of physicians and surgeons (27 percent) were foreign born, as were more than (22 percent)
of persons working in health care support jobs as nursing, psychiatric, and home health aides.

Sadly most may just be in the US for the money, if the money drops they could all go back where they came from.

 

[Jan Volkes]

I suggested it in a previous thread, but maybe if we take advantage of the "capitalistic" healthcare system by the state paying for med school.. doctors "pay back" the state by having to volunteer 2-4 years of their time in the lower income hospitals. Since they won't have student loan debt it won't be as bad. Then as the market floods with doctors, they will eventually have to lower costs in order to compete with one another.

I was going to suggest that the US recruits doctors and surgeons from abroad until I read this:

Today, immigrants make up a sizeable proportion of the U.S. health care workforce.
In 2010, the foreign born accounted for 16 percent of all civilians employed in health care occupations in the United States.
In some health care professions, this share was larger.
More than one-quarter of physicians and surgeons (27 percent) were foreign born, as were more than (22 percent) of persons working in health care support jobs like nursing, psychiatric, and home health aides.

I expect the numbers are even greater now.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I was going to suggest that the US recruits doctors and surgeons from abroad until I read this:

Today, immigrants make up a sizeable proportion of the U.S. health care workforce.
In 2010, the foreign born accounted for 16 percent of all civilians employed in health care occupations in the United States.
In some health care professions, this share was larger.
More than one-quarter of physicians and surgeons (27 percent) were foreign born, as were more than (22 percent) of persons working in health care support jobs like nursing, psychiatric, and home health aides.

I expect the numbers are even greater now.

I have a friend in the Philippines who wants to come to america because her nursing degree means she can get a job and do what she trained for in america. She has to work as an intern for 2 years to get into anything in the Philippines.

 

[Armoured]

I was going to suggest that the US recruits doctors and surgeons from abroad until I read this:

Today, immigrants make up a sizeable proportion of the U.S. health care workforce.
In 2010, the foreign born accounted for 16 percent of all civilians employed in health care occupations in the United States.
In some health care professions, this share was larger.
More than one-quarter of physicians and surgeons (27 percent) were foreign born, as were more than (22 percent) of persons working in health care support jobs like nursing, psychiatric, and home health aides.

I expect the numbers are even greater now.

You don't think other countries might need their own doctors?

 

[Jan Volkes]

You don't think other countries might need their own doctors?

Of course they do but no one can stop anyone going where they want to, American doctors have gone to Canada to work.