U.S. suffered worst quarterly contraction on record

[disciple Clint]

The state governors waited on a federal plan. They waited for Trump to take it seriously. They waited for Trump to use the Defense Production Act which he finally used but only to a point.
But as the numbers in the early states - New York, Michigan , New Jersey - climbed and the situation got dire, the governors HAD to take the helm. Someone had to lead.
The states were left to fight for supplies, even to sneaking supplies in so that the federal government didn't take it from them.

Remember?
States are bidding against each other and the federal government for important medical supplies — and it's driving up prices

• States are bidding against the federal government to buy personal protective equipment (PPE) for medical staff.
• Low supplies and the existence of multiple bidders has made it difficult for states to get enough protective equipment for medical staff.
• Experts interviewed for this article said the federal government could centralize procurement through FEMA to create more efficiency. Some governors have floated a buying consortium as an alternative.

Illinois Gov. Pritzker says states were forced to compete in 'sick Hunger Games' competition for PPE without national coronavirus plan

Pritzker, a Democrat, told U.S. lawmakers Wednesday the U.S. government’s “muddled response” left states to try to source their own supplies as health-care professionals battled rising cases. He said the federal government’s inaction left states to compete against each other and international allies for supplies.


“In the midst of a global pandemic, states were forced to play some sort of sick ‘Hunger Games’ game show to save the lives of our people,” Pritzker said. “Let me be clear: This is not a reality TV show. These are real things that are happening in the United States of America in 2020.”

The state ended up paying $5 for masks that normally cost 85 cents, he said in testimony before the House Homeland Security Committee.

​

Real leadership would have to implemented the Defense Production Act sooner, and a centralized way for states to buy supplies rather than drive up prices in competition for the supplies.

Can you name any states who did not get everything that they asked for? As I recall we had the Gov of NY and Cal both saying how happy they were with what Trump was providing. The Trump administration set the recommendations, it was up to the states to decide if they wanted to follow those guidelines or do something else. In testimony yesterday Dr Fauci indicated that the actions that the Trump administration did take saved thousands of lives.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/fauci-says-trumps-coronavirus-policy-decisions-helped-save-lives/

 

[Kenny'sID]

I recognize that the cause of the increased unemployment at this point is due to the virus. Trump likes to take credit for low unemployment - he gets to take credit for high unemployment.
In the chart provided, it showed the rate of unemployment greatly decreasing during Obama's terms, and slowed during Trump's. Trump wants to take credit for it all.

Note, this line of discussion started with one member linking to an opinion that Dems and Obama oversaw a poor recovery. That just is not true.




The national debt. If the economy was the 'greatest' ever, why wasn't that debt decreased?

Maybe you've seen the graph I pasted on unemployment as well at this point?

Isn't it clear to you all by now that something is amiss here when it comes to information like this? And especially now, they are ramping it up and there is an out pour of things that are, by design, put out there to make Trump look bad. IOW, politics, and politicians lie, especially those after Trump. Remember the information on who would win the last election? There are a lot of evil players in this whom will give us bad info in a second in order to protect their agenda.

How do I know my info is correct, I don't, however I do know how things like this (the last election polls/collusion, and many more) have played out in the past. It's easy to put 2 and 2 together. I would be a fool to look at any set of graphs for instance, and draw conclusion on just those, and I'm sure y'all would feel the same about my graphs.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The stock market is not the economy.
Repeat After Me: The Markets Are Not the Economy.

If you feel we need to get cocky, then repeat after me:

"Over the long term, the stock market's performance does tend to correlate with the economy"

Information on the economy is not something that can simply be tossed out here, that is unless it tells a story some would prefer not to see told.

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with him setting a good example.

Sure it does, setting a good example is to wear a mask when necessary.

If folks weren't digging an picking to find something to bash with, they might be able to see there is nothing wrong here.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It means that if he pointed to the economy and claimed it was his doing when it was doing well, he can't then turn around and claim the economy tanking has nothing to do with him.

Of course he can claim the tank was not his fault, especially when surely most all know by now, it was caused by the pandemic.

Wow, some things are just obvious to most and it's hard to believe people refuse to, or are just not able to see that? I'd guess even most demarcates won't try to pull that one off.

That deserves another "Wow"

 

[Kenny'sID]

That's some pretty convenient windowing of the data there. Your Fox article was published on Feb 17. The S&P500 peaked for the year on Feb 19 with a value of 3386.15, then proceeded on a month-long crash, bottoming out on Mar 23 with a value of 2237.40, for an overall decline (from the peak) of 33.9%. It's value at the time I'm writing this is 3247.60, so it's recovered most of its losses over the last four months, but it's still down 4.1% from that peak. It's closing value on election day (which is a silly benchmark, but okay) was 2139.56, which means that in the 936 trading days he's been in office, it's gone up 51.8%.

Going back 936 trading days before the 2016 election would bring us to 2/22/2013, on which the S&P500 had a closing value of 1515.60. Over that span of time, it rose 41.1%. Sure, that's still lower than Trump over the same length of time, but not as big as your article presents. Moving the cutoff date to inauguration day moves it another couple points in Obama's favor.

Oh, you don't see my graphs as viable? What a surprise.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Oh, you don't see my graphs as viable? What a surprise.

I didn’t say they weren’t viable. (What would that even mean in this context?) I said they windowed the data down in a way that was convenient to the argument but somewhat misleading. You’re free to check my data - S&P 500 data is available through Yahoo Finance. But I’m right.

 

[KCfromNC]

I didn’t say they weren’t viable. (What would that even mean in this context?) I said they windowed the data down in a way that was convenient to the argument but somewhat misleading. You’re free to check my data - S&P 500 data is available through Yahoo Finance. But I’m right.

There's also the issue that they seemed to move the cutoff between Obama and Donald's terms arbitrarily, some base on election day, some on the day he took office. Seems a bit suspicious.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What would that even mean in this context?

As in , "not viable"....and in that context.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Gee, why did it double under Obama? Really???

I see.... so blame Trump for pandemic caused unemployment (brought on by the states governors decisions) but give Obama a pass for having direct control over doubling the national debt....like I said, makes sense in a weird sorta way......

 

[civilwarbuff]

Citation?

Don't watch the news much?
Now I go to Kroger's and there is a sign that says 'masks required'.....

 

[Fantine]

By all means, do explain exactly how that particular "fact" was proven to be what is claimed there.

If the U.S. had been led by someone who took the virus as seriously as nations like S. Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Finland, Norway, and others, the disease would not have increased to the point where we have ten times as many cases as every other country in the world (save 3--Russia, Brazil, and India--all of whom have less than half our cases).
Our businesses would not have been closed as long. Our stimulus packages could have been lower--since the impact would be lower.
Worst of all, Trump ignored the virus on Kushner's advice because it was initially only raging in blue states--and he figured "who cares if a bunch of people in blue states die?"

 

[Fantine]

I see.... so blame Trump for pandemic caused unemployment (brought on by the states governors decisions) but give Obama a pass for having direct control over doubling the national debt....like I said, makes sense in a weird sorta way......

When Obama was president he reduced deficits from 8% of GDP to 3.3% of GDP. I shudder to think of what that percentage is today, but imagine it will be double digits.

 

[civilwarbuff]

If the U.S. had been led by someone who took the virus as seriously as nations like S. Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Finland, Norway, and others, the disease would not have increased to the point where we have ten times as many cases as every other country in the world (save 3--Russia, Brazil, and India--all of whom have less than half our cases).
Our businesses would not have been closed as long. Our stimulus packages could have been lower--since the impact would be lower.

That is pure speculation on your part. We are a different culture than those other countries where their governments exert far more control over their citizens than we do.....one size DOES NOT fit all.

 

[civilwarbuff]

When Obama was president he reduced deficits from 8% of GDP to 3.3% of GDP.

And that is what should happen when an economy comes out of recession except the Obama recovery was the slowest since at least WWII.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I see.... so blame Trump for pandemic caused unemployment (brought on by the states governors decisions) but give Obama a pass for having direct control over doubling the national debt....like I said, makes sense in a weird sorta way......

Please reread my posts. Either you are not or there is willful ignorance at play.

I already said Trump is not responsible for the pandemic caused unemployment. HOWEVER, had we in the US shut down properly, and did not rush to reopen as many states did under Trump's encouragement, things would be better. Many of the red states rushed the reopen before the numbers were down at the urging of Trump, and now are a mess.


And of course, one has to ignore the factual graphs to keep complaining about Obama and the debt:

The US HAD to stimulate the economy in 2009, but surely you are aware that the economy in the first year reflects the previous president? Did you know TARP was passed while Bush was in office? I expect that will be ignored.
Note that in the Obama administration the debt was decreasing.
Under Trump, it was increasing before the virus hit. Republicans did not care.
Now it will be bad and Republicans will want to cut medicare and Social Security
My how the Republican party has changed since the 50s.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Can you name any states who did not get everything that they asked for? As I recall we had the Gov of NY and Cal both saying how happy they were with what Trump was providing. The Trump administration set the recommendations, it was up to the states to decide if they wanted to follow those guidelines or do something else. In testimony yesterday Dr Fauci indicated that the actions that the Trump administration did take saved thousands of lives.
https://nypost.com/2020/07/31/fauci-says-trumps-coronavirus-policy-decisions-helped-save-lives/

Eventually they got PPE and vents after Trump finally used the Defense Production act.
Remember?

Nurses are wearing garbage bags as they battle coronavirus: ‘It’s like something out of the Twlight Zone’

Kay, a nurse at The Brooklyn Hospital who did not want to give her last name for fear of reprisals from relatives of patients who are not allowed to visit their loved ones, told CBS reporter David Begnaud, who was covered in a hazmat decontamination suit and large face shield. “It’s like something out of the Twilight Zone. I don’t think any of us going through it will ever be the same.”


“I’d like a mask like yours,” she said. “We should all have masks like yours, and that white suit you have on? What do I have on? What is this?” Begnaud said it looked like she was wearing a garbage bag. Kay replied, "It is a garbage bag.” Another nurse wearing the same kind of transparent trash bag said she took time off with symptoms of coronavirus, and came back to work after recovering.


​

That was in mid April.

Why Is There Still a PPE Shortage?

Back in April, after weeks of doctors, nurses, and other health-care workers wearing trash bags for gowns and using takeout containers as face masks, President Trump declared victory over the personal-protective-equipment (PPE) shortage. Complaints about a lack of supplies, he said, were “fake news.” And by May, Trump said masks, gowns, gloves, and other necessities were in “tremendous supply to almost all places.”

Now it’s July, coronavirus cases are surging across the country, hospitals are reaching capacity in hot spots, and complaints about a lack of PPE continue. Four months after it became clear that the U.S. would need an unprecedented amount of medical equipment to see its way through the pandemic, it is still not available.​

 

[FreeinChrist]

And that is what should happen when an economy comes out of recession except the Obama recovery was the slowest since at least WWII.

Ha! It was the biggest since WWII. Til now.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If the U.S. had been led by someone who took the virus as seriously as nations like S. Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Finland, Norway, and others, the disease would not have increased to the point where we have ten times as many cases as every other country in the world (save 3--Russia, Brazil, and India--all of whom have less than half our cases).
Our businesses would not have been closed as long. Our stimulus packages could have been lower--since the impact would be lower.
Worst of all, Trump ignored the virus on Kushner's advice because it was initially only raging in blue states--and he figured "who cares if a bunch of people in blue states die?"

Show me all the detailed states to prove that is a fact. Somehow I get the idea no one actually knows that is true, meaning all it is is talk, and a need to pass the blame to someone you want to be blamed.

No offense intended, but your claim means nothing to me, I've heard plenty of them and without a Crystal Ball, again, it' only talk.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ha! It was the biggest since WWII. Til now.

You mean till the pandemic brought it to a halt, right?
Obama Wins The Gold For Worst Economic Recovery Ever
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/obama-recovery-is-worst-in-postwar-history/
7 Facts That Show Obama’s Economic Recovery Has Been AWFUL
.....and etc and etc.......

 

[FreeinChrist]

You mean till the pandemic brought it to a halt, right?
Obama Wins The Gold For Worst Economic Recovery Ever
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/obama-recovery-is-worst-in-postwar-history/
7 Facts That Show Obama’s Economic Recovery Has Been AWFUL
.....and etc and etc.......

no
Explain why the Fed had to start printing money in Sept. 2019 before the virus was ever around. Why was liquidity a problem? How was the corporate bond market at that time?


btw:
Obama’s 2009 Recovery Act Kicked Off Over 10 Years Of Economic Growth

No President Trump, Obama’s Economic Recovery Was Not A Con Job

After President Obama tweeted about signing the Recovery Act on its 11-year anniversary on Monday, President Trump tweeted that Obama was trying to take credit for the economy under the Trump Administration. Trump continued with his usual falsehoods that the jobs numbers are the best ever and that there is an “Economic Boom” taking place under his Administration.

When one looks at the actual numbers for GDP growth and new jobs for the past three years, the con is Trump gaslighting how strong the economy is. His tax cut looks like it was a sugar rush for one year, which has also helped to create the largest federal deficits in history when the economy is growing.​

Fact check: How Trump's economy compares to Obama's - CNNPolitics