U.S. suffered worst quarterly contraction on record

[loveofourlord]

(1) We don't know how long immunity from the disease lasts.

(2) We don't know how long immunity from the vaccine lasts.

(3) We don't know if the vaccine even works.

thats what they are testing now, but they can test the level of antibodies produced and so on.

 

[Radagast]

thats what they are testing now, but they can test the level of antibodies produced and so on.

A bunch of people stand to make a huge amount of money, so they are hyping their product.

But the only way to find out how long immunity lasts is to wait.

 

[Fantine]

Opinion noted......

The post waa filled with facts and stats.
S. Korea, if led by a scuence-denying, narcissistic, self-interested hotelier seeing his investment collapse, would have had 25730 deaths instead of several hundred.

The U.S., if led by someone with compassion and integrity rather than a sociopath, would have only 84,000 cases.

We are persona non grata at every nation's border. The Toronto Blue Jays are playing baseball in Buffalo because Canada won't allow American players to cross the border. Coming from a nation of super spreaders, we are all super spreaders. We are the pariahs of the world because our president has allowed our country to be a COVID incubator.

 

[childeye 2]

Opinion noted......

Actually, Fantine is stating the same thing all the experts said in front of congress. Also the first priorities in responding to a pandemic according to the pandemic playbook, was an immediate army of testers and trackers on the ground to contain the spread of the contagion, as well as mass production of PPE to supply them with. This playbook was prepared by a team of the best experts in their field with firsthand knowledge and invaluable experience in how to control the spread of such a virus.

The Pandemic team and all the work they did in preparation for this exact type of event was an investment paid for by our tax dollars, which became wasted dollars when Trump disbanded the team and lowered it's priority value as a position it held as part of the Whitehouse. Instead Trump delegated the responsibilities it held to other departments to save money. He said in an interview on Fox he didn't like paying a bunch of doctors to stand around and he could call them back if needed.

Had Trump followed the advice in the playbook, and all the experts were telling him to at the time, we may not have had to shutdown the economy or would have only had minimal shutdowns in the hot spots as they broke out. Hard to say for certain since we didn't go that route, but the countries that did are in a lot better shape than we are and that can't be denied.

By comparison Trump was way too slow to respond and did far too little. He even down played the threat initially rather than show any urgency in the matter. Frankly, his actions showed more of a concern in controlling the messaging to protect his political image than for what was happening to the country.

Pandemic Timeline: The Obama Blame Game

 

[Kenny'sID]

The post waa filled with facts and stats.

The U.S., if led by someone with compassion and integrity rather than a sociopath, would have only 84,000 cases.

By all means, do explain exactly how that particular "fact" was proven to be what is claimed there.

 

[Kenny'sID]

He may not have caused it, but he lay claim on the economy before. He can't quit it now!

What does that even mean??

 

[eclipsenow]

I like our ABC's summing up on his delays:

He hoped to be able to save the economy, even if it meant more people would die from coronavirus. Now he's left presiding over a catastrophic loss of life and a broken economy as well.​

 

[Kenny'sID]

The recovery, if hindered, was hindered by the Republican house who obstructed a great deal. But let's look at Obama vs Trump :
Trump boasts the US economy is the best it's ever been under his watch. Here are 9 charts showing how it compares to the Obama and Bush presidencies. | Markets Insider

View attachment 281958

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How many are unemployed now?
How deep is the federal deficit now? If the economy was the greatest - why wasn't it decreased?

Guess it depends om where one get's their graphs/info. I'm certain I could find more, but point made.

The Trump economy, three years in: What the numbers say

 

[Kenny'sID]

How many are unemployed now?

What exactly is your point, are you seriously not considering the virus and completely forgetting that is what has caused the unemployment problem now?

why wasn't it decreased?

Why wasn't what decreased?

 

[disciple Clint]

I don't hold him accountable for shutting down the country and impact of that action to the economy. I do hold him accountable for his failure to lead the country through a pandemic....a failure that will now extend the economic impact.

and how do you feel about the state governors who demanded that they be given the helm. The absolutely would not let Trump tell them what to do, but now its Trumps fault, Seriously?????

 

[FreeinChrist]

What exactly is your point, are you seriously not considering the virus and completely forgetting that is what has caused the unemployment problem now?

I recognize that the cause of the increased unemployment at this point is due to the virus. Trump likes to take credit for low unemployment - he gets to take credit for high unemployment.
In the chart provided, it showed the rate of unemployment greatly decreasing during Obama's terms, and slowed during Trump's. Trump wants to take credit for it all.

Note, this line of discussion started with one member linking to an opinion that Dems and Obama oversaw a poor recovery. That just is not true.

Why wasn't what decreased?

The national debt. If the economy was the 'greatest' ever, why wasn't that debt decreased?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Guess it depends om where one get's their graphs/info. I'm certain I could find more, but point made.

View attachment 281997

The stock market is not the economy.
Repeat After Me: The Markets Are Not the Economy.

“The linkage is actually pretty weak,” said Jay Ritter, a finance professor at the University of Florida who has studied the long-run relationship between economic growth and market returns in world markets. “In the longer run, the relationship is, empirically, it’s not there.”

None of this is a secret. So why do millions of Americans continue to think the market really is a barometer on the economy? That’s more a question of history and culture than economics.

Historians say the stock market’s link in the American psyche to the economic health of the country goes back, at least, to the 1929 crash.

“You can think of the Great Crash as almost traumatizing Americans,” said Janice Traflet, a financial historian at Bucknell University’s Freeman College of Management.​

It is a good article to read.

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The Trump economy, three years in: What the numbers say

Those graphs back up the ones I provided.

 

[FreeinChrist]

and how do you feel about the state governors who demanded that they be given the helm. The absolutely would not let Trump tell them what to do, but now its Trumps fault, Seriously?????

The state governors waited on a federal plan. They waited for Trump to take it seriously. They waited for Trump to use the Defense Production Act which he finally used but only to a point.
But as the numbers in the early states - New York, Michigan , New Jersey - climbed and the situation got dire, the governors HAD to take the helm. Someone had to lead.
The states were left to fight for supplies, even to sneaking supplies in so that the federal government didn't take it from them.

Remember?
States are bidding against each other and the federal government for important medical supplies — and it's driving up prices

• States are bidding against the federal government to buy personal protective equipment (PPE) for medical staff.
• Low supplies and the existence of multiple bidders has made it difficult for states to get enough protective equipment for medical staff.
• Experts interviewed for this article said the federal government could centralize procurement through FEMA to create more efficiency. Some governors have floated a buying consortium as an alternative.

Illinois Gov. Pritzker says states were forced to compete in 'sick Hunger Games' competition for PPE without national coronavirus plan

Pritzker, a Democrat, told U.S. lawmakers Wednesday the U.S. government’s “muddled response” left states to try to source their own supplies as health-care professionals battled rising cases. He said the federal government’s inaction left states to compete against each other and international allies for supplies.


“In the midst of a global pandemic, states were forced to play some sort of sick ‘Hunger Games’ game show to save the lives of our people,” Pritzker said. “Let me be clear: This is not a reality TV show. These are real things that are happening in the United States of America in 2020.”

The state ended up paying $5 for masks that normally cost 85 cents, he said in testimony before the House Homeland Security Committee.

​

Real leadership would have to implemented the Defense Production Act sooner, and a centralized way for states to buy supplies rather than drive up prices in competition for the supplies.

 

[Paulos23]

What does that even mean??

It means that if he pointed to the economy and claimed it was his doing when it was doing well, he can't then turn around and claim the economy tanking has nothing to do with him. He has to take the good with the bad.

It would have been better if he didn't claim the good economy was because of him.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Guess it depends om where one get's their graphs/info. I'm certain I could find more, but point made.

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The Trump economy, three years in: What the numbers say

That's some pretty convenient windowing of the data there. Your Fox article was published on Feb 17. The S&P500 peaked for the year on Feb 19 with a value of 3386.15, then proceeded on a month-long crash, bottoming out on Mar 23 with a value of 2237.40, for an overall decline (from the peak) of 33.9%. It's value at the time I'm writing this is 3247.60, so it's recovered most of its losses over the last four months, but it's still down 4.1% from that peak. It's closing value on election day (which is a silly benchmark, but okay) was 2139.56, which means that in the 936 trading days he's been in office, it's gone up 51.8%.

Going back 936 trading days before the 2016 election would bring us to 2/22/2013, on which the S&P500 had a closing value of 1515.60. Over that span of time, it rose 41.1%. Sure, that's still lower than Trump over the same length of time, but not as big as your article presents. Moving the cutoff date to inauguration day moves it another couple points in Obama's favor.

 

[civilwarbuff]

In spite of those, immunity from a vaccine is usually less than from the actual disease.

I dunno....smallpox vaccine seems pretty effective....and polio....and MMR....and etc......

 

[civilwarbuff]

he can't then turn around and claim the economy tanking has nothing to do with him.

So covid-19 is Trump's fault? Sounds almost like a conspiracy theory......

 

[civilwarbuff]

Had Trump followed the advice in the playbook, and all the experts were telling him to at the time, we may not have had to shutdown the economy or would have only had minimal shutdowns in the hot spots as they broke out. Hard to say for certain since we didn't go that route, but the countries that did are in a lot better shape than we are and that can't be denied.

Almost every country in the world went to shutdowns whether they followed the 'playbook' or not. New virus=new rules for combating it....

 

[civilwarbuff]

I recognize that the cause of the increased unemployment at this point is due to the virus. Trump likes to take credit for low unemployment - he gets to take credit for high unemployment.

So you recognize the cause but you want to blame Trump anyways.....makes sense in a weird sorta way.....

Note, this line of discussion started with one member linking to an opinion that Dems and Obama oversaw a poor recovery. That just is not true.

That is true and well supported by facts if one only makes the effort and takes the time to comprehend them....

The national debt. If the economy was the 'greatest' ever, why wasn't that debt decreased?

And if the economy was so great under Obama (after 8 years) why did the national debt double?

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

Forgive me Ben Franklin for bastardizing your quote: “Trump who would trade human lives for a good economy deserve neither and will now lose both.”