U S National debt

[Galaxy Hunter]

Put the lock box back on social security and we will be running a surplus. We had that until George W. Bush decided to spend it on tax cuts and an unnecessary invasion of Iraq.

You're right SS is a mess. It's a shame what they've done to it by taking money from the old folks who deserve it and giving it to anybody and everybody to get votes. There's not a penny in it....just a bunch of IOUs and they have the nerve to call the money that doesn't exist a "trust fund".

 

[rambot]

But we have nukes and Japan does not. Plus, the last time Japan tried to to take over our economy we ended up making most of their top companies bankrupt. I think Trump had a lot to do with that in the late 80s by selling them overpriced real estate.

My argument is that your debt is pretty spread out.
But also i think you have essentially stated a rational for not caring at all about your debt.

 

[redleghunter]

My argument is that your debt is pretty spread out.
But also i think you have essentially stated a rational for not caring at all about your debt.

Well we are Americans. If we ever run out of trees we can come get some from Canada.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You're right SS is a mess. It's a shame what they've done to it by taking money from the old folks who deserve it and giving it to anybody and everybody to get votes. There's not a penny in it....just a bunch of IOUs and they have the nerve to call the money that doesn't exist a "trust fund".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lets-debunk-this-social-security-myth/

 

[Zoii]

But we have nukes and Japan does not. Plus, the last time Japan tried to to take over our economy we ended up making most of their top companies bankrupt. I think Trump had a lot to do with that in the late 80s by selling them overpriced real estate.

What does Nukes have to do with the US national debt? Surely you're not advocating firing a nuclear weapon on your ally and trading partner.

 

[Zoii]

But we have nukes and Japan does not. Plus, the last time Japan tried to to take over our economy we ended up making most of their top companies bankrupt. I think Trump had a lot to do with that in the late 80s by selling them overpriced real estate.

I don't understand why the people of the USA find the bankruptcies of an ally's major companies desirable. And that Trump according to you scammed property investors, why is that positive. I just don't understand the mindset there.

 

[redleghunter]

What does Nukes have to do with the US national debt? Surely you're not advocating firing a nuclear weapon on your ally and trading partner.

No but reminding them we have that option helps.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't understand why the people of the USA find the bankruptcies of an ally's major companies desirable. And that Trump according to you scammed property investors, why is that positive. I just don't understand the mindset there.

I was not advocating such....just telling it as it is.

 

[Zoii]

No but reminding them we have that option helps.

Really? Is that something that's discussed in general circles? Like is that what the average person thinks..
Ie that if trade or debts become untenable with allies or trading partner, youd remind them that if the USA chose it would launch a nuclear attack.... People in the USA think this of their allies?

 

[redleghunter]

Really? Is that something that's discussed in general circles? Like is that what the average person thinks..
Ie that if trade or debts become untenable with allies or trading partner, youd remind them that if the USA chose it would launch a nuclear attack.... People in the USA think this of their allies?

I didn't say it was right.

 

[mark kennedy]

Not quite.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lets-debunk-this-social-security-myth/

You're right SS is a mess. It's a shame what they've done to it by taking money from the old folks who deserve it and giving it to anybody and everybody to get votes. There's not a penny in it....just a bunch of IOUs and they have the nerve to call the money that doesn't exist a "trust fund".

When they were balancing the budget they found 160 billion in social security, almost by accident. One of the keys to balancing the budget was the lock box on social security, which would be different now because the baby boomers are aging.

The Trust Fund represents a legal obligation of the federal government to program beneficiaries. The government has borrowed nearly $2.8 trillion as of 2014 from the Trust Fund and used the money for other purposes. (Social Security Trust Fund - Wikipedia)
​

That's just over ten percent of the national debt and we owe it to Social Security.

Intragovernmental Holdings. This is the portion of the federal debt owed to 230 other federal agencies. It totals $5.6 trillion, almost 30 percent of the debt...Debt Held by the Public. The public holds the rest of the national debt ($14.7 trillion). Foreign governments and investors hold nearly half of it. (Who Owns the U.S. National Debt? The Biggest Owner Is You!)​

 

[OldWiseGuy]

When they were balancing the budget they found 160 billion in social security, almost by accident. One of the keys to balancing the budget was the lock box on social security, which would be different now because the baby boomers are aging.

The Trust Fund represents a legal obligation of the federal government to program beneficiaries. The government has borrowed nearly $2.8 trillion as of 2014 from the Trust Fund and used the money for other purposes. (Social Security Trust Fund - Wikipedia)
​

That's just over ten percent of the national debt and we owe it to Social Security.

Intragovernmental Holdings. This is the portion of the federal debt owed to 230 other federal agencies. It totals $5.6 trillion, almost 30 percent of the debt...Debt Held by the Public. The public holds the rest of the national debt ($14.7 trillion). Foreign governments and investors hold nearly half of it. (Who Owns the U.S. National Debt? The Biggest Owner Is You!)​

The non-tradable special issue securities used to borrow the Trust Fund is the "lock box", as is the "full faith and credit" of the United States.

We cannot leave the excess SS funds sequestered in an account that only pays out benefits. This would starve the economy resulting in the need to issue more debt to replace it. However as the baby boomers retire the fund will be drawn down significantly.

Special issues—available only to the trust funds.
Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/specialissues.html

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Really? Is that something that's discussed in general circles? Like is that what the average person thinks..
Ie that if trade or debts become untenable with allies or trading partner, youd remind them that if the USA chose it would launch a nuclear attack.... People in the USA think this of their allies?

No, they don't.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

There is no possibility that the USA could ever pay off its debt.
It can not even pay the interest on it except by creating furter debt.
If China ever did call it out the Usa would be finished. China could do so, because it is in equally massive credit and does not actually need the cash. However it does need the market, so as to keep its people in enployment.
It would take a global war to keep china running if it lost its markets.
A global war really would see the end of the USA financially.

Just as the UK had to hand over the roll as the world banker, when stirling lost its position as the defacto world reserve currency. So would happen to the dollar. And the UK had nothing like the debt that the USA has now. China is the obvious candidate to pick up that role.

 

[essentialsaltes]

If a default ever occurs though, you can kiss your AAA credit rating goodbye

S&P downgraded US Treasuries to AA+ in 2011 after the Congress played games with the debt ceiling.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is no possibility that the USA could ever pay off its debt.
It can not even pay the interest on it except by creating furter debt.
If China ever did call it out the Usa would be finished. China could do so, because it is in equally massive credit and does not actually need the cash. However it does need the market, so as to keep its people in enployment.
It would take a global war to keep china running if it lost its markets.
A global war really would see the end of the USA financially.

Just as the UK had to hand over the roll as the world banker, when stirling lost its position as the defacto world reserve currency. So would happen to the dollar. And the UK had nothing like the debt that the USA has now. China is the obvious candidate to pick up that role.

No worries.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...debt-a-national-security-threat/#5664ed99156d

 

[whatbogsends]

Nothing about Obama doubling our debt?

Yes, Obama doubled our debt.

Nothing about Bush doubling our debt?

Nothing about Reagan doubling our debt?

The only 8 year president that didn't double our debt since 1980 was Clinton. That doesn't necessarily make him a good president, but if doubling the debt is your metric, both of the last 2-term Republicans did it, too.

And, yet, somehow, when we've elected the self proclaimed "King of Debt", you think it's unlikely that debt won't climb by at least as high of a rate?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

America has been in debt since our founding.

 

[Zoii]

There is no possibility that the USA could ever pay off its debt.
It can not even pay the interest on it except by creating furter debt.
If China ever did call it out the Usa would be finished. China could do so, because it is in equally massive credit and does not actually need the cash. However it does need the market, so as to keep its people in enployment.
It would take a global war to keep china running if it lost its markets.
A global war really would see the end of the USA financially.

Just as the UK had to hand over the roll as the world banker, when stirling lost its position as the defacto world reserve currency. So would happen to the dollar. And the UK had nothing like the debt that the USA has now. China is the obvious candidate to pick up that role.

China already is a world power if not the leading one. India is the next one on the move. EU UK and USA will always be leaders but I think we'll see Asia lead the world now

 

[Galaxy Hunter]

Check out a graph of how the US debt has gone up since the Sept 11, 2001 attacks. We have let this thing get so bad the terrorists will probably declare victory if it collapses our economy.