U.S. Constitution now labeled as "harmful content".

[Aldebaran]

I don't see how it isn't when the entire point of the thread is apparently how outraged you are that the Constitution supposedly now comes with a warning label attached.

Is this thread now about something other than warning labels?

The point of the thread has nothing to do with me.

 

[Ligurian]

Did you miss the second part of the OP where they claimed that even the rotunda is racist?

Also interesting is that the same people have also declared that their own Rotunda that houses the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights – is an example of “structural racism” and that the Founding Fathers and other White, historically impactful Americans are portrayed too positively.
National Archives task force cites Rotunda as 'racism' example

Seems like they're saying that America was founded as a racist nation. Unlike all other nations, which were founded by... hmmm... How many nations were NOT founded by one race? It's kinda hard not to see their plan, isn't it? They did the same thing to German women after the war. And like it or not, their movie scripts tell us about it:

If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out. ...Search that and see what pops up.

"The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice."
--Coudenhove-Kalergi

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057

 

[Aldebaran]

Seems like they're saying that America was founded as a racist nation. Unlike all other nations, which were founded by... hmmm... How many nations were NOT founded by one race? It's kinda hard not to see their plan, isn't it? They did the same thing to German women after the war. And like it or not, their movie scripts tell us about it:

If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out. ...Search that and see what pops up.

"The man of the future will be of mixed race. The races and classes of today will gradually disappear due to the elimination of space, time, and prejudice."
--Coudenhove-Kalergi

Das pan-europäische Manifest

They say we're a nation of immigrants, while also saying we're a racist nation. Classic!
Maybe we should have warned the Afghan refugees about how racist we supposedly are before they boarded the planes.

 

[dzheremi]

They say we're a nation of immigrants, while also saying we're a racist nation. Classic!

I don't think those are necessarily opposing claims. Have you never met an immigrant who looks down on other immigrants for not being as productive, thankful, etc. as they/their people are?

 

[Ligurian]

They decided they've wasted their time, but want to make sure other people notice it... They complain that a thread is off course when it's not even their thread...
They have no way to control what's happening but character assassination...
Note to self: Try hard not to do these things.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't think those are necessarily opposing claims. Have you never met an immigrant who looks down on other immigrants for not being as productive, thankful, etc. as they/their people are?

That wouldn't make them racist. Suppose Afghan refugees who come here start setting up anti-American organizations, and even commit acts of terror, and then an immigrant who came here from Honduras says that the Afghan refugees obviously aren't as thankful to be here as the Honduran is, it wouldn't be racist. He would be making a conclusion based on the actions of those he was referring to.

 

[dzheremi]

They decided they've wasted their time, but want to make sure other people notice it... They complain that a thread is off course when it's not even their thread...
They have no way to control what's happening but character assassination...
Note to self: Try hard not to do these things.

Who are 'they'?

 

[dzheremi]

That wouldn't make them racist. Suppose Afghan refugees who come here start setting up anti-American organizations, and even commit acts of terror, and then an immigrant who came here from Honduras says that the Afghan refugees obviously aren't as thankful to be here as the Honduran is, it wouldn't be racist.

My point was that there's nothing that says that a nation that has been built by successive waves of immigrants wouldn't or couldn't also be a racist nation just because that is its makeup. In the process of integration, people often take on attitudes that make themselves feel superior to other immigrants. Somehow I don't think my grandmother picked up anti-African sentiments as a small child in Mexico (where there are relatively few African-descended people; less than 2% of the population), but she certainly had them when I went to see her at a convalescent home where she was recovering from shoulder surgery and she ranted effusively at me about how she didn't like the nursing staff there, because "they get these Africans fresh off the street who don't know anything about the world, and they don't how to take care of their old people like we (Latinos) do." That may not be out and out saying "I don't like them because they're black", but it is saying that because of their background -- because of who they are and where they're from -- they have certain deficiencies that we, the good immigrants/good people, don't have. That's a basis for racism right there.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Did you miss the second part of the OP where they claimed that even the rotunda is racist?

Also interesting is that the same people have also declared that their own Rotunda that houses the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights – is an example of “structural racism” and that the Founding Fathers and other White, historically impactful Americans are portrayed too positively.
National Archives task force cites Rotunda as 'racism' example

OK, so you messed up with respect to the archive disrespecting the constitution, so now you want us to get all enraged because they are criticizing the artwork in the Rotunda. So now let's debunk that one too. There are aspects of the artwork in the Rotunda that depict the indigenous Americans in positions of subjugation. However much disrespect you think these views have for the art in the Rotunda, it was completely overshadowed by the mob of Trump supporters who vandalized six sculptures and two paintings on January 6th. If you want to point fingers at people disrespecting the Rotunda, start there.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The war crime trials for these = the great white throne judgement?

https://www.amazon.com/Other-Losses-James-Bacque/dp/1559581735
https://www.amazon.com/British-Concentration-Camps-History-1900-1975/dp/1399011405
Japanese-American Internment | Harry S. Truman

I've got no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ligurian]

They say we're a nation of immigrants, while also saying we're a racist nation. Classic!
Maybe we should have warned the Afghan refugees about how racist we supposedly are before they boarded the planes.

So then... what do you think about this?

It’s time to tell the truth; the 14th amendment was never ratified.

 

[Ligurian]

OK, so you messed up with respect to the archive disrespecting the constitution, so now you want us to get all enraged because they are criticizing the artwork in the Rotunda. So now let's debunk that one too. There are aspects of the artwork in the Rotunda that depict the indigenous Americans in positions of subjugation. However much disrespect you think these views have for the art in the Rotunda, it was completely overshadowed by the mob of Trump supporters who vandalized six sculptures and two paintings on January 6th. If you want to point fingers at people disrespecting the Rotunda, start there.

Thanks... here ya go:

"FBI Finds Scant Evidence U.S. Capitol Attack Was Coordinated"
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...nce-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources

 

[Aldebaran]

My point was that there's nothing that says that a nation that has been built by successive waves of immigrants wouldn't or couldn't also be a racist nation just because that is its makeup. In the process of integration, people often take on attitudes that make themselves feel superior to other immigrants. Somehow I don't think my grandmother picked up anti-African sentiments as a small child in Mexico (where there are relatively few African-descended people; less than 2% of the population), but she certainly had them when I went to see her at a convalescent home where she was recovering from shoulder surgery and she ranted effusively at me about how she didn't like the nursing staff there, because "they get these Africans fresh off the street who don't know anything about the world, and they don't how to take care of their old people like we (Latinos) do." That may not be out and out saying "I don't like them because they're black", but it is saying that because of their background -- because of who they are and where they're from -- they have certain deficiencies that we, the good immigrants/good people, don't have. That's a basis for racism right there.

From what you quoted from your grandmother, it doesn't sound as if she didn't like them because of their race, but rather how she was being treated by them compared to how she was treated by other Latinos. If she had been treated well by Latinos up to that point, and suddenly is under the care of multiple Africans who don't know what they're doing, then I could see how that would leave her with such an impression.

 

[Aldebaran]

OK, so you messed up with respect to the archive disrespecting the constitution, so now you want us to get all enraged because they are criticizing the artwork in the Rotunda. So now let's debunk that one too. There are aspects of the artwork in the Rotunda that depict the indigenous Americans in positions of subjugation. However much disrespect you think these views have for the art in the Rotunda, it was completely overshadowed by the mob of Trump supporters who vandalized six sculptures and two paintings on January 6th. If you want to point fingers at people disrespecting the Rotunda, start there.

I posted the Rotunda item at the same time in the OP.
Also, this has nothing to do with "Trump supporters", no matter how tempting it is to make everything about them.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I posted the Rotunda item at the same time in the OP.

And I have debunked both of them.

Also, this has nothing to do with "Trump supporters", no matter how tempting it is to make everything about them.

They are both about disrespecting what is in the Rotunda. It looks like anyone can disrespect those items, not just the archive mentioned.

 

[Occams Barber]

This thread is an argument by proxy.

Scrape off the varnish and the underlying issue here is not library warnings. It’s a (mainly) conservative fear that America’s ‘glorious’ history will be tarnished by those who wish to recognise the dark side of it’s past. History written by the victors has difficulty in recognising the treatment afforded to its victims.

Founding stories are by their nature romanticised, glorified and mythologised versions of reality. The problem arises when the founding process involves harsh and unconscionable treatment of certain peoples. In America’s case this is Native Americans and the enslaved.

A couple of decades ago Australia was involved in a debate about the validity of what was known as the ‘Black Armband” view of its history. There was a view that Australia had failed to recognise the extent of the trauma it had done to its indigenous population – hence ‘Black Armband’. Conservative elements went to some lengths to minimise past oppression and maintain a, somewhat whitewashed, version of our past. It was even argued that those who promoted the actuality of our treatment of Aboriginals were ‘tarnishing’ our history.


Its this type of thinking which underlies this thread. Simmering below the surface I see objections to CRT, the rise of black protest and the fear of a non-white ethnic majority taking charge. By nature conservatives will resist these things since their acceptance means taking responsibility for past sins and overcoming the fear of change.

American foundational history verges on the sacred. In some minds any attempt to open up the ‘glorious’ past to scrutiny amounts to heresy.

OB

 

[Aldebaran]

And I have debunked both of them
.

Arguing against an idea isn't debunking.

 

[dzheremi]

and the fear of a non-white ethnic majority taking charge.

I wish the people who think like this would admit it so that they can then explain where it's coming from, cos I don't get it. Why does it matter that there will be a non-white ethnic majority? There didn't used to be a white ethnic majority in North America (or a lot of other places where there now is one), so who's really conservative, in this context: the ones that see an idealized version of the 1950s as what we should be getting back to, or the ones who want to reexamine the founding documents from the 18th century?

 

[Occams Barber]

I wish the people who think like this would admit it so that they can then explain where it's coming from, cos I don't get it. Why does it matter that there will be a non-white ethnic majority? There didn't used to be a white ethnic majority in North America (or a lot of other places where there now is one), so who's really conservative, in this context: the ones that see an idealized version of the 1950s as what we should be getting back to, or the ones who want to reexamine the founding documents from the 18th century?

I'm white (but not American) and I don't know where it's coming from either. I suspect it's mostly unconscious. In the case of white Americans perhaps it's a fear of what might happen if the 'others' get control. Will there be some form of subtle revenge for the sins of white society against people of colour? Or maybe it's just a deep seated fear that society will change and white advantage will be lost as a natural consequence.

In real terms I suspect it will take many decades, even with a non-white majority, to prise the levers of power from the fanatical grip of elderly male WASPs.

EDIT added for interest
White fear of demographic change is a powerful psychological force - Vox
OB

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

I'm white (but not American) and I don't know where it's coming from either. I suspect it's mostly unconscious. In the case of white Americans perhaps it's a fear of what might happen if the 'others' get control. Will there be some form of subtle revenge for the sins of white society against people of colour? Or maybe it's just a deep seated fear that society will change and white advantage will be lost as a natural consequence.

In real terms I suspect it will take many decades, even with a non-white majority, to prise the levers of power from the fanatical grip of elderly male WASPs.

EDIT added for interest
White fear of demographic change is a powerful psychological force - Vox
OB

I’m a mixed American (German, Irish, Japanese, Korean, from-the-reservations-Cherokee) and I don’t understand it either.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus”-(Galatians 3:28)