U.K. plan would allow same-sex unions in church

[Psudopod]

Psudopod,

Where are these studies then? How do you know what I think about them if you haven't shown them to me?
​

Well I wasnt the one who first claimed there was no harm. First show us all which studies you trust then I would be happy to show some studies which show there is harm.

How can I show you which studies I would trust if you won't show me any studies at all? Either you have evidence, or you don't. You are welcome to believe that same sex relationships are harmful if you wish, but don't claim you have evidence that they are unless you are willing to share it.

 

[David Brider]

You mentioned love...

And you said, "If there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that."

Do you realise that that's incorrect?

Depends what you mean by relationship.

I just told you. Two people who are, for example, going out together, dating, courting, engaged, or married are said to be in a relationship.

It's possible to be in such a relationship without sexual interaction. Do you understand that?

in human reasoning yes, but not in God’s purposes, God detests what some humans call same sex marriage. God’s word describes sex as being appropriate for faithful man woman marriage only, same sex acts and intended acts such as at Sodom are described as wicked.

I'm not talking about sex acts, I'm talking about same-sex relationships and/or same-sex marriages. You're suggesting that what happened at Sodom is somehow akin to such relationships.

You're wrong.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,

How can I show you which studies I would trust if you won't show me any studies at all?

Quite easily I should have thought. I will show you studies when I have seen you give evidence for what you claimed.
Forgive me, was you who claimed there was no harm or was it someone else?

 

[Psudopod]

Quite easily I should have thought. I will show you studies when I have seen you give evidence for what you claimed.

That's not what you asked for. You asked me show you which studies I trust.

Forgive me, was you who claimed there was no harm or was it someone else?

As I already said, it wasn't me. I don't believe same sex relationships are any more harmful than opposite sex ones because there is nothing unique to one and not the other. However, I do not have any studies to hand adn never claimed to. Not that any of this matters. You did claim to have studies, and yet you repeatedly refuse to show them.

 

[Phinehas2]

David Brider,

Do you realise that that's incorrect?

No its correct. The Bible only countenances sexual activity within a man/woman marriage. I go by what God’s Biblical testimony says.

I just told you. Two people who are, for example, going out together, dating, courting, engaged, or married are said to be in a relationship.

True but the Bible only countenances sexual activity within a man/woman marriage and only man and woman in marriage. I think what you are trying to do is pretend what you just described as a relationships might also apply to two men or two women together; the Bible describes that as error.

I'm not talking about sex acts, I'm talking about same-sex relationships and/or same-sex marriages.

The Bible only man and woman in marriage, so there is no such thing as the same sex marriages you describe except in human disobedience to God’s purposes.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,
Ok. Well I can give some evidence should I see some in support for the claim that it does no harm.

 

[David Brider]

Can you please explain to me what this:

No its correct. The Bible only countenances sexual activity within a man/woman marriage.

...has to do with this:

If there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that.

Because it seems that not only are you talking at cross purposes with me, you're also talking at cross purposes with yourself here.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

David Brider,

Because it seems that not only are you talking at cross purposes with me, you're also talking at cross purposes with yourself here.

What 'seems' to you doesnt 'seem' to me.
The Christian churches hold to the Bible scriptures that countenance man and woman in marriage and same sex sexual relations as error.

Therefore concerning the thread, the UK government is trying to dictate and chnage aspects of historic apostloic Christianity. They cant, they will have to persecute Christians to get their perverted ideas accepted.

 

[David Brider]

The Christian churches hold to the Bible scriptures that countenance man and woman in marriage and same sex sexual relations as error.

But what does that have to do with your statement that "if there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that"?

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

David Brider,

But what does that have to do with your statement that "if there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that"?

The Bible only countences man and woman in marriage. There are many relationships in the Bible where people loved each other, but sex outside faithful marriage is only ever condemned, including specifically same sex acts.

 

[Polycarp1]

Belk,
A footballer would be one who plays football rather than one who plays golf but merely calls himself a footballer, right?
Again it depends who you also are talking about. The God whose Biblical testimony refers to His wrath against sin certainly detests it. Not least Romans 1 where people do the kinds of things we are talking about here when they turn from God.

You know, there may be the problem. Most people on this site believe in the God who so loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. He did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. And He called a man named Paul who wrote a letter to the Romans with sixteen chapters. You might try reading the whole thing sometime; it's really an eye-opener.

 

[David Brider]

David Brider,
The Bible only countences man and woman in marriage. There are many relationships in the Bible where people loved each other, but sex outside faithful marriage is only ever condemned, including specifically same sex acts.

But that has nothing to do with your statement that "if there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that."

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Polycarp1,

You know, there may be the problem. Most people on this site believe in the God who so loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. He did not come into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

So does the church, what you have paraphrased from the Bible the Christian church holds to as well.
But the Christian church also holds to homosexual relations being error. Romans 1 actually refers to those who engage wilfully in them as turning from God.

...and I have read all 16 chapters and so have the Christian churches.

 

[Phinehas2]

David Brider,

But that has nothing to do with your statement that "if there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that."

Yes it does, if the Bible only describes sex within faithful marriage then one can call all other relationships whatever one wants and I think examples of all I mentioned can be found in the Bible.
What the Christian churches cant have is "same-sex 'unions'" in church.

 

[David Brider]

Yes it does, if the Bible only describes sex within faithful marriage then one can call all other relationships whatever one wants...

But "if there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that," is actually arguing the exact opposite of what you're claiming the Bible teaches!

Think about it - what your "if there were no sexual interaction" statement is implying is that there can be no such thing as two people in a romantic not-just-friends type of relationship unless they're sexually active! If two people are dating, courting, engaged, even married - by your logic, unless they're sexually active, their relationship is just a friendship - or a business partnership or a fellowship. Apart from not being supported by anything the Bible has to say, this is quite clear bunk that has no connection with real life. 'Cos there are many couples - dating, courting, engaged, married - who aren't sexually active.

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

David Brider,

Think about it - what your "if there were no sexual interaction" statement is implying is that there can be no such thing as two people in a romantic not-just-friends type of relationship unless they're sexually active!

My statement is based on what the Bible says, not sure what you mean by ‘romantic not-just-friends’ type of relationship is.

If two people are dating, courting, engaged, even married - by your logic, unless they're sexually active, their relationship is just a friendship - or a business partnership or a fellowship.

If a man and a woman are dating, courting engaged to be married then its up to you what you call it, I would call it a friendship, ie girlfriend and boyfriend. They may however also both be Christians in fellowship.

Apart from not being supported by anything the Bible has to say,

Apart from what has been provided.

this is quite clear bunk that has no connection with real life. 'Cos there are many couples - dating, courting, engaged, married - who aren't sexually active.

On the contrary real life is either in line with God’s word or outside it.

 

[Belk]

Belk,
A footballer would be one who plays football rather than one who plays golf but merely calls himself a footballer, right?

And you have been authorized to determine what rules one must follow to be a footballer, yes?

Again it depends who you also are talking about. The God whose Biblical testimony refers to His wrath against sin certainly detests it. Not least Romans 1 where people do the kinds of things we are talking about here when they turn from God.

God has authorized you to speak in his stead has he? The same God who detests people shaving their side burns and touching their wife during her period? As I said, you would make your god as petty as a human.

 

[Phinehas2]

Belk,

And you have been authorized to determine what rules one must follow to be a footballer, yes?

Football matches occur all the time with a referee to make sure the rules are followed. I know what the rules are as well. Not sure what you don’t understand abut this.

God has authorized you to speak in his stead has he?

No not in His stead nor did I claim that, I specifically referred to His Biblical testimony.

 

[David Brider]

My statement is based on what the Bible says, not sure what you mean by ‘romantic not-just-friends’ type of relationship is.

Something like the relationship you have with your wife - both now as husband and wife, and in the past at any point since you stopped being just friends.

If a man and a woman are dating, courting engaged to be married then it's up to you what you call it.

Most people would call it dating, courting, or engaged to be married.

I would call it a friendship, ie girlfriend and boyfriend.

Most people would understand that if two people have become girlfriend and boyfriend, or are dating or courting or engaged, their relationship is more than merely a friendship.

Apart from what has been provided.

Except that you've provided absolutely no Biblical basis for your assertion that "if there were no sexual interaction the relationship would be a friendship, business partnership or fellowship or something like that." You've repeatedly stated that it's what the Bible teaches, but provided no Scriptural basis for it.

On the contrary real life is either in line with God’s word or outside it.

And in real life, there are many couples who are dating, courting, engaged and married, who are not sexually active. Do you think that's in line with God's word or outside it?

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

David Brider,

Something like the relationship you have with your wife - both now as husband and wife, and in the past at any point since you stopped being just friends.

So you mean when we were courting? We are still friends, we were friends when we were courting. We got married.
I would call it courting, engaged to be married or girlfriend and boyfriend. Any of those are ok.

And in real life, there are many couples who are dating, courting, engaged and married, who are not sexually active. Do you think that's in line with God's word or outside it?

The word of God, the Biblical testimony which the Christian
churches hold to defines man and woman for marriage. Therefore if it is a man and a woman then its ok, but not if it’s a man and man.