U-234 and the German A-bomb

[Ryder]

The German submarine U-234, one of the larger submarines of its time, left Germany in 1945 headed for Japan. The war in Europe ended while she was on-route in the atlantic ocean, and U-234's captain decided to surrender to the Americans. Of particular notice was the fact that the ships manifest had over half a ton of uranium listed as cargo for delivery apon arival in Japan to the Japanese army. Also on-board were two Japanese officers (dead) who allegedly committed suicide before U-234 surrendered to the Americans. That's the short version, a sum-up!

Still in question is...

-What happened to the uranium, thrown over? never there? Americans seized it for their atomic project? (The last one is my bet, why not eh? U-234 surrendered anyways).

-What grade was the uranium, useless? partially refined? weapons ready? (Depends on the German project progress, doubtful it was 'weapons' grade).

-What was Japan's use for it, nuclear weapon? project work? dirty bomb? (My guess is a dirty bomb, but who knows).

In any case, I just found the example of the U-234 as further justification of the atomic attacks on Japan. The US had no reliable evidence regarding Japan's progress in modern weapons, but if you caught a U-boat loaded with uranium headed for Japan, would you bet millions of lives that it was the only one? The US had reason to fear that Japan could find a way to deal serious damage to American civillians before the close of the war, so the Atomic attacks were further justified, IMHO. Japan had also developed Jet fighters and ramjet style engines that could (if nessesary) run on lawnmower-grade fuel, so aside from nukes or dirty bombs, Japan had other surprises for the US had the war not been so abruptly ended. Any thoughts, I just thought this was neat.

-Also, as a side note, some people believe that some of the uranium headed for Japan on-board U-234 was confiscated and used in construction of one of Americas A-bombs. I guess if your delivery is late your next one's on us.

 

[Islander]

Still in question is...

-What happened to the uranium, thrown over? never there? Americans seized it for their atomic project? (The last one is my bet, why not eh? U-234 surrendered anyways).

The ocean is deep and it's probably at the bottom but I don't totally throw out the possibility the US Navy took the uranium.

-What grade was the uranium, useless? partially refined? weapons ready? (Depends on the German project progress, doubtful it was 'weapons' grade).

Good question. I also doubt it was weapons grade. I think weapons grade is something like 90% pure which is very hard to do. They would have needed an atom smasher or breeder reactor and I'm pretty sure they had neither. Getting what they needed would have been expensive and to get the money they would have to make promises to Hitler that they weren't sure they could fulfill. They kept Hitler in the dark about the possibility of atomic weapons because they knew they could get killed if a nuclear program failed.

-What was Japan's use for it, nuclear weapon? project work? dirty bomb? (My guess is a dirty bomb, but who knows).

They wanted to build an atomic bomb but almost all experts say they probably would have used it for dirty bombs.

Another item of history you might be interested in is why the Soviets were in such a rush to get to Berlin. A Brittish tank commander has been studying the question and the answer he has come up after much research is that the Soviets were wanting to be the first to capture a castle in the outskirts of Berlin. It was the center of the small Nazi research project into building an atomic bomb. They captured uranium and some Nazi research papers. The uranium would be very important to developing a nuclear bomb.

 

[Knight]

Anybody know what was done with the boat?

 

[TScott]

It was torpedoed in target practice by the USS Greensomethingorother.

 

[Ryder]

Prob. If not it coulda wound up where most of the german navy did, oceanic atomic bomb tests in the fifties 'n sixties (seventies too? not sure). They wanted to see how far away ships would be structurally safe from a blast in the air, and they had livestock onboard to test leathal rates at different points inside 'n out of the ship. Most of these japanese and german ships were outright destroyed when an underwater nuke was tested however, because water conducts pressure waves better than air (a guy jumpin next to you doesnt do much, but if he jumps next to you in the pool eh? you'll feel that). The underwater nuke made destroyers literally 'jump' and virtually everything sunk or was rendered completely useless.

Also, the soviets wanted their share of the 'V' rocket project materials too, further explaining their reckless advances in eastern germany (if not the particular one on berlin).

 

[Islander]

Also many American vessels were sunk in the nuclear tests.

Also, the soviets wanted their share of the 'V' rocket project materials too, further explaining their reckless advances in eastern germany (if not the particular one on berlin).

It's also the reason why the Soviets had such a good space program for the first few years of the space race.

 

[Ryder]

Yup, they (the soviets) got their share of V-project materials, but the leading scientists themselves surrendered to the americans (not so much surrendered as took the americans up on a cushy job opertunity). None of the german brains wanted to end up in russia after the war, so while the soviets captured their share of materials, the bulk of the german scientists themselves went to the states. Thus the states could play catch-up easy with russia, they had their own plus germanys scientists for a fair time after the war. Incidentally I've heard argentina got a few (one, two?) jet fighter techies after ww2, LOL I wonder how eh.

 

[AradJohn]

germans r smart they would of had the a bomb sooner or later probly sooner because remember right after the german scientists went to us we got the atom bomb

 

[Jet Black]

I doubt it, there were a few scientists in germany doing a pretty good job of sabotaging their experiments... the whole weapons program was on a wild goose chase, and the only people clever enough to spot it were the people doing it on purpose.

 

[AradJohn]

ya but hitler was smart but he was also phycotic but thats diff most smart people are. yhe would of cought on sooner or later.

 

[Islander]

It would have taken years for the Germans to develop the bomb if they ever would have. Iraq has been working on it since the 1960's and has received a lot of help by trading oil for information and they still haven't built a bomb. Many of the nations with bombs like China and Russia first built a bomb through large amounts of espionage. It took many years and billions of dollars for the US to build the bomb and only then with help from the England and German defectors. Much like Iraq today Germany didn't have access to large amounts of uranium and unlike the US all of its buildings were constantly being bombed. Also its best scientists left for Allied nations, were sent to the Eastern Front, sent to concentration camps, killed in bombings, or were exiled before the war. The best experts on physics and nuclear science were killed by Hitler when decided that having more soldiers on the Eastern Front was more important than developing his weapons program. It was a very dumb decision for Hitler to send these men to Russia but it did help us to win the war so in the end it was a good thing.

 

[Jet Black]

ya but hitler was smart but he was also phycotic but thats diff most smart people are. yhe would of cought on sooner or later.

It was actually thought at the time that it might not even have been possible to detonate an atomic bomb. That is one of the reasons that the US had to use 2.

Look trust me, I think you should read up on the copenhagen meetings between Werner Heisenberg and Niels Bohr, and the fact that alot of people have looked at the work of heisenberg afterwards and noticed many fundamental errors that he should not have made. Heisenberg was actually the guy in charge of the program, so he was the one returning results to Hitler. Hitler was good at some things, but a scientific authority he was not. If it is true that Heisenberg was sabotaging the program, then I think it highly unlikely that Germany would ever have got the bomb, unless the program was taken over by a supporter of hitler with equal scientific merit to Heisenberg himself. As Heisenberg was literally one of The Only world authorities in this area, I find it highly unlikely.