Two women in Revelation 17

[Timtofly]

How do get 7 continents going back into 1? Did I miss something in the 6th seal?

Revelation 6:12-14
12 Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red.
13 The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Which island is every Island? Why would God move something an inch? They will no longer be in their places period. Where we now see mountains and continents. They will no longer be there in the 6th seal. Symbolize it if you want to. God is a literal being and creator of all. Not a symbol of human imagination.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 6:12-14
12 Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red.
13 The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Which island is every Island? Why would God move something an inch? They will no longer be in their places period. Where we now see mountains and continents. They will no longer be there in the 6th seal. Symbolize it if you want to. God is a literal being and creator of all. Not a symbol of human imagination.

I am sorry, but God is not talking about physical islands and continent here. This is why you came up with assumptions and speculation WITHOUT Word of God. You need to check with the Bible for an answer!

The sixth seal (and all seals) has everything to do with God's New Testament Congregation! Not Rocky Mountain in the United States and an island called Hawaiian.

The earthquake in Scripture signifies judgment of God. It is a judgment upon his New Testament unfaithful congregation of Israel, the Church! Remember what Revelation 12 talked about the woman who clothed with sun, moon and stars?! She is a congregation of Israel! The sixth seal is about the woman (congregation) being judged by God for her unfaithfulness. The sun turned black. Moon becomes blood. And stars falling. It has spiritual signification. Do you undersatnd what those means to the church who are not faithful to God?

Now, what about the mountain and island in verse 14. I will help you understand if you listen to Word of God I testify here:

The islands and mountains here I believe refer "specifically" to the churches. Mountains and Islands are used in Scripture to refer to kingdoms, and often are the representation of the Lord's kingdom. Islands because they as a refuge, retreat, shelter, or oasis seated in the midst of the sea (symbolizing world), and thus used as a representation of God's kingdom. And mountain because in the past they were also illustrating places of protection. Those who are wary of sin flee as a bird to their mountain because that is where the protection of God is. It is the lofty place of safety from attack, and thus it is often used to represent the protection of God's kingdom. For example, we are those in the mountains that go forth to bring the good news of the gospel (Isaiah 52:7).

Isaiah 51:5

• "My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust."

Isles are the same as Islands. Islands here represent the Lord's kingdom. As also seen in Isaiah 60.

Isaiah 60:9

• "Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee."

Mountains often have the same representation of His kingdom:

Psalms 87:1-3

• "His foundation is in the holy mountains.
• The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
• Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah."

also...

Psalms 11:12

• "...In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?
• For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart."

Psalms 121:1-2

• "I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.
• My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth."

The word translated hill is the exact same word translated mountain. Mount Zion represents the kingdom of God. Not literal mountain but KINGDOM! Thus when we read Revelation 16:20, in its proper context, and in harmonious relationship to the whole Bible, we see this is God's judgment specifically on the unfaithful church, whom He had warned of their removal before. They are being removed as the consequence of their disobedience.

Revelation 16:20

• "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Compare this with what God warned the "fallen church" that He would do as a judgment if they didn't repent and do the first works:

Revelation 2:5

• "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

This is the fate of the fallen church, to be moved out of its place. For example, as symbolized also in Revelation chapter 6:

Revelation 6:14

• "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

The mountain and island are the church as a representation of the kingdom of God (as Israel's was before it fell), but because of their abominations, God's spirit is removed from them that they are no longer houses of God. In that verse, the heaven departing like a scroll "signifies" the Kingdom of Heaven is gone from them (as with Israel before them -Matthew 21:43), and it is done like a scroll closed to "signify" the word of God being shut up to them. A famine of hearing the word of God (Amos 8). This is the fulfillment of what God promised the church in Revelation chapter 2 would happen if they didn't repent of their evil works. God's judgment upon the churches realized.

Selah!

 

[Timtofly]

I am sorry, but God is not talking about physical islands and continent here. This is why you came up with assumptions and speculation WITHOUT Word of God. You need to check with the Bible for an answer!

You do not have to apologize to me. It is God's Word, not mine. Thank you for the spiritual application. Now if souls listen to God, they will not be confused when God literally does what God says to God’s creation. They will be prepared spiritually and physically. Both are God's creation equally.

 

[friend of]

what about the woman in REV 12?

 

[TribulationSigns]

You do not have to apologize to me.

Yes, I do. As God is my witness, I apologize to say that you are indeed incorrect with your interpretation. That is as polite as I can be!

It is God's Word, not mine.

You did quote God's Word, Revelation 16:12-14. Good job. But the real question is do you really UNDERSTAND it? Did you compare earthquake, sun, moon, stars, heaven, fig tree, mountain, and island with the rest of Scripture like I have done? Nope. You did NOT! You just make an assumption by taking a verse out of context and out of Scripture and say the removal of mountains and islands means there will be one continent. Did God actually say this? No, you did. You came up with your private interpretation because you lack biblical exegesis, to begin with.

You need to learn how to compare Scripture with Scripture to find God's interpretation. Not interpretation based on National Geography of Jerusalem post! Selah!

Now if souls listen to God, they will not be confused when God literally does what God says to God’s creation.

What are you talking about? God's Elect hears what God said by studying in HIS WORD, and search it out for HIS interpretation. Spiritual discernment.

 

[TribulationSigns]

what about the woman in REV 12?

What about her? Please be specifically in Revelation 12 that you wanted to know more about.

 

[friend of]

I was responding to the OP. He says there are two women in Revelation but Douggg appears to have forgotten about the woman in the constellations.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I was responding to the OP. He says there are two women in Revelation but Douggg appears to have forgotten about the woman in the constellations.

Ahh. I assure you that there is only one woman - the congregation of God.

 

[Douggg]

The mystery of God in REv. 10 is still unknown. Anyone who can say definitely they know what it is is presumptious.

Have you heard people (usually in the ministry) ask what is your "world view" ? Which a person could respond any number of ways, but the pastor has something he wants to say - so asks that lead-in question to get the ball rolling.

So, instead of my "world view", but similar in concept - my overall bible view is that the mystery of God is His plan to correct all that is wrong in the world begun in the garden of Eden, and Satan and his third of the angels rebellion. That's what's in my mind when I read Revelation.

 

[Douggg]

Ahh. I assure you that there is only one woman - the congregation of God.

You have a contorted alternative to covenant theology and dispensation theology, which you have originated with your own version of understanding the bible framed as "old testament congregation" and "new testament congregation".

So you go on absurd explanations of the verses in Revelation, based on that brain storm of yours.

No-one can chart your commentary because it is fragmented and rambling, closer to being philosophical, than actual interpretation.

It is preposterous to claim that Revelation 6-19 is God's judgment on Christians.

 

[Douggg]

I was responding to the OP. He says there are two women in Revelation but Douggg appears to have forgotten about the woman in the constellations.

In Revelation 17 specifically.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It is preposterous to claim that Revelation 6-19 is God's judgment on Christians.

Obviously, you do not read very well. Read again! I said it is the judgment of God upon HIS UNFAITHFUL CONGREGATION - the professed Christians. Not the True Elect (because God told them to come out of her, remember? Didn't you read the Scripture?)

Preposterous? It seems to a natural man, yeah.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[TribulationSigns]

In Revelation 17 specifically.

It seems that Douggg is afraid to compare the woman of Revelation 17 with the rest of Revelation and Scripture, doesn't he?

 

[Douggg]

Obviously, you do not read very well. Read again! I said it is the judgment of God upon HIS UNFAITHFUL CONGREGATION - the professed Christians. Not the True Elect (because God told them to come out of her, remember? Didn't you read the Scripture?)

Preposterous? It seems to a natural man, yeah.

1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Everything is a category of what "congregation" in your system.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Everything is a category of what "congregation" in your system.

As I said, a natural man does not understand... congregation, covenant relationship, kingdom representative, etc.

 

[Timtofly]

Did you compare earthquake, sun, moon, stars, heaven, fig tree, mountain, and island with the rest of Scripture like I have done? Nope. You did NOT! You just make an assumption by taking a verse out of context and out of Scripture and say the removal of mountains and islands means there will be one continent. Did God actually say this? No, you did. You came up with your private interpretation because you lack biblical exegesis, to begin with.

So to remind people that we are living in days that Scripture says is comparable to the days of Noah. Where the windows of heaven were opened and the fountains of the deep "ripped" apart. This time the whole sky will roll back, not just the windows opened. Instead of the foundation of the earth split apart, God will bring the Continents back together. The Flood of Noah was spoken of by Peter as completely destroying the old world, 2 Peter 3.

The one were God in Genesis 1 separated the land from the water and it was one Continent. It was altered by the Flood in Noah's day. It will be restored in the 6th seal when God on the throne with the Lamb by His side bring to a close the punishment given to Adam. Adam and the sinful nature of his descendants corrupted the sons of God, to the point God would no longer strive with their spirits, Genesis 6. The Flood brought on division and further separation.

Once again in the 6th seal Revelation 6, God is bringing humanity back to front and center. No more a divided land. All will be in close view of God on the throne. No nation will have an excuse they are isolated from the presence of God.

 

[DavidPT]

You did quote God's Word, Revelation 16:12-14. Good job. But the real question is do you really UNDERSTAND it? Did you compare earthquake, sun, moon, stars, heaven, fig tree, mountain, and island with the rest of Scripture like I have done? Nope. You did NOT! You just make an assumption by taking a verse out of context and out of Scripture and say the removal of mountains and islands means there will be one continent. Did God actually say this? No, you did. You came up with your private interpretation because you lack biblical exegesis, to begin with.

The Greek word for islands is neso. It's only used in a handful of verses. Every place prior to Revelation, when it is being used, it is apparently meaning in a literal sense as far as I can tell. The first time neso is used in Revelation is Revelation 1:9.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle(neso) that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Surely you are not going to argue, that since this same Greek word is found in Revelation, and that Revelation is full of symbolism, it's not meaning in the literal sense here either?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle(neso) that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Surely you are not going to argue, that since this same Greek word is found in Revelation, and that Revelation is full of symbolism, it's not meaning in the literal sense here either?

Was the isle of Patmos part of the vision John received in the spirit?

 

[DavidPT]

There are two women in Revelation 17, not one as is often thought.

One is the great harlot that gets destroyed by the ten kings in the end times.

The other is the kingdom of Satan and his third of the angels, that is at the root of all false religions and abominations upon the earth.

Here is my chart to aid in understanding the difference.

View attachment 282480

As far as I can tell, all of the following are who all is involved with Revelation 17.

1---the great harlot

2---the kings of the earth

3---the inhabitants of the earth


4---a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


5---there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

6---ten kings


7---The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.


8---the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Number 1 and 8 are obviously referring to the same woman. So where can this other woman you are alleging be found? There is no other woman mentioned in this chapter.

Your chart also appears to ignore ch 18 altogether. How can you possibly expect to determine all of these things apart from ch 18? Does not ch 18 reveal that the woman in question is meaning Babylon the great? Wouldn't that mean the great city in number 8 above is meaning Babylon the great?

 

[Marilyn C]

Newspaper Eschatology. You got the four beasts of Daniel confused.

So God only knows the OT nations? Did He not say that He reveals His plans to His prophets? (Amos 3: 7)

And is it a coincident that the Quartet of Power are - UK & USA, EU, Russia & the UN. They have emblems that are recognised today as - Lion, Eagle, Bear & leopard. The first 4 great powers control the G7, G20 & the UN. So is all that just a coincident????