Two women in Revelation 17

[TribulationSigns]

This person took the time to make a chart, put forth their theory on end times which is pretty much everyone speculates and interprets their own meaning to.

Congratulation on your realization for what Douggg's chart really is: a theory! It is not based on biblical facts. The chart like this often built by a false prophet, which means someone who speculates without Scripture support whatsoever, get it?

Hereby, or "this is how" we know the difference between a false prophet teaching with a spirit of error and a true prophet coming in the spirit of Truth. The characteristic of a true Christian is receiving the Truth in LOVE (Get this, Swan7?) not hiding from it. If you are born of God, you "should" know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error because one speaks from out of the Bible, word to word, and the other speculates, theories, assumes, and re-interprets.

IF you had made a chart of your own beliefs, typed out your thoughts and beliefs, only to be met with replies like those you sent to him how willing would you be to listen to correction?

Like I have told Douggg, I do not need a chart to show God's Truth. It is His Word that is sufficient to prove his chart incorrectly and does not represent God's Word. If I create a chart, I would welcome any correction if they will show God's Word to refute my doctrine. Dougg obviously did not take it well yet you want to come to his defense because he is offended by the Truth?

Galatians 4:16 KJV
[16] Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

People believe what they believe, and what they believe is rooted in their heart... there is no reason to beat them in the head.

Ahhh... So it sounds like you saying, "Why do you have to be so nasty? So you think that you are the smartest one on the planet and we are beneath you? How about treating other Christians with respect for what they believe? You are all so cruel, so proud, so heartless toward other Christians who don't agree with you."

Okay tell you what...I was not aware that I was being nasty or "proud." I guess one man's meat is another man's poison, doesn't it? One thing I do know, this is the TYPICAL response to Scripture references that illustrative vividly that what many are saying is true, and that bears witness to what others are saying is not true. Typical equals "There is nothing new under the sun." Again like I said:

Luke 21:15 KJV
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

When one is saying something Scripture says, it's difficult for some professing Christians to resist it rationally. The mouth and wisdom is the witness of the unadulterated word of God, which (correct me if I'm wrong) you seem to find so distressing, offensive and cruel. Thus to gainsay (speak against) it would be to deny God's word, and so you don't have to respond to the Scriptures I give at all. Instead, you respond with charges of what you perceive as our lacking politeness, compassion and Christian niceties. ...what about the Scripture proving you wrong? Any response to that? Hello?

People believe what they believe, and what they believe is rooted in their heart... there is no reason to beat them in the head.

Respect for one's beliefs is not a given, it's a privilege that is earned through sound and honest handling of Scripture. I don't respect anyone's beliefs if they are contrary or contradictory to the testimony of the word of God. And neither should you or anyone else. Do you imagine that the apostle John respected those that held the doctrine of Balaam? Should I respect the doctrines of the Pope, Ellen G. White, Jack Van Impe, etc. Not at all, and rightly not. Respect means you have a deep admiration, high regard, great admiration or appreciation. I have no such appreciation for false doctrines, speculations, erroneous teachings or misguided beliefs. Did the Lord have respect for Cain's gifts? The real question is why?

Genesis 4:6-7

• "And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
• If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

No Christian should have respect for something that he knows is false. For example, the general opinion in the old testament congregation at Christ's first advent was that He wasn't the Messiah. Should I have respect for that opinion? Call me judgmental or proud if you like but I'm sorry, that is decidedly not the will of God for the children of truth. The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that!

Selah!

Any more questions or complaints, Toro?

 

[Douggg]

Like I have told Douggg, I do not need a chart to show God's Truth.

more like, you can't make a chart from the idealist methodology of interpretation.

 

[Douggg]

Congratulation on your realization for what Douggg's chart really is: a theory! It is not based on biblical facts. The chart like this often built by a false prophet, which means someone who speculates without Scripture support whatsoever, get it?

Hereby, or "this is how" we know the difference between a false prophet teaching with a spirit of error and a true prophet coming in the spirit of Truth. The characteristic of a true Christian is receiving the Truth in LOVE (Get this, Swan7?) not hiding from it. If you are born of God, you "should" know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error because one speaks from out of the Bible, word to word, and the other speculates, theories, assumes, and re-interprets.



Like I have told Douggg, I do not need a chart to show God's Truth. It is His Word that is sufficient to prove his chart incorrectly and does not represent God's Word. If I create a chart, I would welcome any correction if they will show God's Word to refute my doctrine. Dougg obviously did not take it well yet you want to come to his defense because he is offended by the Truth?

Galatians 4:16 KJV
[16] Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?



Ahhh... So it sounds like you saying, "Why do you have to be so nasty? So you think that you are the smartest one on the planet and we are beneath you? How about treating other Christians with respect for what they believe? You are all so cruel, so proud, so heartless toward other Christians who don't agree with you."

Okay tell you what...I was not aware that I was being nasty or "proud." I guess one man's meat is another man's poison, doesn't it? One thing I do know, this is the TYPICAL response to Scripture references that illustrative vividly that what many are saying is true, and that bears witness to what others are saying is not true. Typical equals "There is nothing new under the sun." Again like I said:

Luke 21:15 KJV
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

When one is saying something Scripture says, it's difficult for some professing Christians to resist it rationally. The mouth and wisdom is the witness of the unadulterated word of God, which (correct me if I'm wrong) you seem to find so distressing, offensive and cruel. Thus to gainsay (speak against) it would be to deny God's word, and so you don't have to respond to the Scriptures I give at all. Instead, you respond with charges of what you perceive as our lacking politeness, compassion and Christian niceties. ...what about the Scripture proving you wrong? Any response to that? Hello?



Respect for one's beliefs is not a given, it's a privilege that is earned through sound and honest handling of Scripture. I don't respect anyone's beliefs if they are contrary or contradictory to the testimony of the word of God. And neither should you or anyone else. Do you imagine that the apostle John respected those that held the doctrine of Balaam? Should I respect the doctrines of Jim Jones, the Pope, or Ellen G. White. Not at all, and rightly not. Respect means you have a deep admiration, high regard, great admiration or appreciation. I have no such appreciation for false doctrines, speculations, erroneous teachings or misguided beliefs. Did the Lord have respect for Cain's gifts? The real question is why?

Genesis 4:6-7

• "And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
• If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

No Christian should have respect for something that he knows is false. For example, the general opinion in the old testament congregation at Christ's first advent was that He wasn't the Messiah. Should I have respect for that opinion? Call me judgmental or proud if you like but I'm sorry, that is decidedly not the will of God for the children of truth. The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that!

Selah!

Any more questions or complaints, Toro?

look at your chosen avatar - that says what is in your heart. To be a bully in your posts, laced with sarcasm, to cover up for the lack of biblical knowledge and insight. And you make a long winded post to justify your behavior? Look at other people's avatar; that's what in their heart.

Change your avatar, to something biblical, and it might make some difference in the image that people have of you.

Why do you write "Selah!" ? Nobody here relates to that saying. Do you see anyone else on the forum saying that? You are not impressing anyone - just for your information. You just picked something out of the bible to bolster the image you have of yourself.

 

[TribulationSigns]

more like, you can't make a chart from the idealist methodology of interpretation.

As I said, Assumption is the mother of all errors.

 

[TribulationSigns]

look at your chosen avatar - that says what is in your heart. To be a bully in your posts, laced with sarcasm, to cover up for the lack of biblical knowledge and insight. And you make a long winded post to justify your behavior?

Blah blah blah... "cover up for the lack of biblical knowledge," ?! LOL!

You guys are basically wasting your time attacking my personalities, my avatar, or my biblical knowledge. That is childish! This thread is about two women you believe are found in Revelation 17. What you are doing here is a perfect example of not able to gainsay or resist my testimony against you with your false "two women" claim where you have not yet show verses and explain it yourself! Thank you for reading my long-winded post to prove what you are trying to do instead of discussing the subject of your OP.

Why do you write "Selah!" ? Nobody here relates to that saying.

Well, have you studied the word in Scripture? I am not surprised if you do not understand it or why I used it is because you actually did not study about it in Scripture, am I right? If you deny this, explain what the word, "selah" means then?

 

[lsume]

For me, that the great harlot is found in the place of seven mountains, which seems to indicate Rome.

There are a multitude of false beliefs in the churchs, some greater than others, like Mormonism and JW's. But I don't think the ten kings would go out of their way to destroy those.

The seven hills of Rome might be. Blind leading the blind has not stopped. Christ will only Tell The Truth.

 

[Swan7]

Congratulation on your realization for what Douggg's chart really is: a theory! It is not based on biblical facts. The chart like this often built by a false prophet, which means someone who speculates without Scripture support whatsoever, get it?

You assume it's a realization. This is very superficial and suggestive reading. You have a very proud heart by the words which you speak. The way you come across is not of a loving Spirit.

Hereby, or "this is how" we know the difference between a false prophet teaching with a spirit of error and a true prophet coming in the spirit of Truth. The characteristic of a true Christian is receiving the Truth in LOVE (Get this, Swan7?) not hiding from it. If you are born of God, you "should" know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error because one speaks from out of the Bible, word to word, and the other speculates, theories, assumes, and re-interprets.

I understand what love is and Whom it comes from, but I don't think you do given your speech. Knowing the Spirit and being of it are two different things.

Like I have told Douggg, I do not need a chart to show God's Truth. It is His Word that is sufficient to prove his chart incorrectly and does not represent God's Word. If I create a chart, I would welcome any correction if they will show God's Word to refute my doctrine. Dougg obviously did not take it well yet you want to come to his defense because he is offended by the Truth?

Then that is how you learn. Not everyone learns the same way you do either. It doesn't sound like you do welcome correction because of the nature of our conversation with you. You are actually abhorring it and seem greatly offended.

Ahhh... So it sounds like you saying, "Why do you have to be so nasty? So you think that you are the smartest one on the planet and we are beneath you? How about treating other Christians with respect for what they believe? You are all so cruel, so proud, so heartless toward other Christians who don't agree with you."

Okay tell you what...I was not aware that I was being nasty or "proud." I guess one man's meat is another man's poison, doesn't it? One thing I do know, this is the TYPICAL response to Scripture references that illustrative vividly that what many are saying is true, and that bears witness to what others are saying is not true. Typical equals "There is nothing new under the sun." Again like I said:

Ok, then that is how you interpret it.
Not being apologetic is another sign of being proud. I've had to rephrase what I have posted to others and I had no problem apologizing for any misgivings.

Any response to that? Hello?

This is another sign.

Respect for one's beliefs is not a given, it's a privilege that is earned through sound and honest handling of Scripture. I don't respect anyone's beliefs if they are contrary or contradictory to the testimony of the word of God. And neither should you or anyone else. Do you imagine that the apostle John respected those that held the doctrine of Balaam? Should I respect the doctrines of the Pope, Ellen G. White, Jack Van Impe, etc. Not at all, and rightly not. Respect means you have a deep admiration, high regard, great admiration or appreciation. I have no such appreciation for false doctrines, speculations, erroneous teachings or misguided beliefs. Did the Lord have respect for Cain's gifts? The real question is why?

You're not dealing with someone who has a doctrine of Balaam. It's just their interpretation of Revelation, which is not fully revealed to us. Its not a Salvation issue. Revelation is a book of Prophesy about our Lord's Second Coming. Being heavy as you have shown is not required because no sin is being said by the OP. Have some grace like our Lord Jesus Christ.

No Christian should have respect for something that he knows is false. For example, the general opinion in the old testament congregation at Christ's first advent was that He wasn't the Messiah. Should I have respect for that opinion? Call me judgmental or proud if you like but I'm sorry, that is decidedly not the will of God for the children of truth. The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that!

Then show with love instead of being a "know it all", like the Pharisees. It's really that simple, but for a hardened heart needs Jesus' help to soften it.
There is a time to be harsh when the Spirit leads you to do so, but only so when sin is not being repented within Christ's House. I sincerely do hope you will hear according to God's Word and Spirit.

~ Love is the fulfillment of the Law ~
Romans 13 ​

 

[TribulationSigns]

You're not dealing with someone who has a doctrine of Balaam.

​

I am dealing with false prophets and teachers who come with their private interpretation in the book of Revelation that the Word of God does not support. Don't like it? Deal this with God yourself. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with it.

I am going to put you and others on the ignore list because you are not really here to discuss God's Word regarding Dougg's claim about "two women" in Revelation 17. I am not interested in your distraction here.

 

[Douggg]

Blah blah blah... "cover up for the lack of biblical knowledge," ?! LOL!

You guys are basically wasting your time attacking my personalities, my avatar, or my biblical knowledge. That is childish! This thread is about two women you believe are found in Revelation 17. What you are doing here is a perfect example of not able to gainsay or resist my testimony against you with your false "two women" claim where you have not yet show verses and explain it yourself! Thank you for reading my long-winded post to prove what you are trying to do instead of discussing the subject of your OP.



Well, have you studied the word in Scripture? I am not surprised if you do not understand it or why I used it is because you actually did not study about it in Scripture, am I right? If you deny this, explain what the word, "selah" means then?

I think you have run out of material.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I think you have run out of material.

What are you talking about? What material? Are you trying to distracting again from the fact that you do not know what selah means?

 

[Timtofly]

The characteristic of a true Christian is receiving the Truth in LOVE

Did you have fun proving others wrong?

I am going to have a little fun with your chart.

 

[TexFire316]

TexFire316, I read the text and imo the harlot has to be something tangible for the ten kings to destroy with fire. What I think you are talking about is something philosophical. I am not saying you are wrong, but there has to be something tangible regarding the harlot, and for the ten kings to hate harlot. Which given the history of Europe, the politicians have had to accommodate the Vatican for political necessity, and I don't think a lot of them like that having to.

Doug, the church system is pretty tangible. You can even reach out and touch it. The church system is the single wealthiest enterprise on the earth second only to NASA. That wealth is tangible as well. And the people that flock there are real people. And what those leaders tell them, they find a way to believe it. Even if it means altering what the Word of God says.
But don't take my word for it, I'm sure within a few blocks of where you live, there is a physical church, go touch it. Hang around a bit, and I'm sure real people will come around, touch them (be careful where you touch though), when the money is all collected, try to take some of it, and you will feel a real presence of the religious leaders.

 

[Douggg]

The mystery of the woman riding the scarlet colored beast is that she has had influenced on the great harlot that the ten kings will destroy with fire.

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[Marilyn C]

The leaders change but the great powers stay the same.

These the world calls the Quartet of Power. (The UK & USA together)

The UN is the Scarlet woman (the harlot) riding on the beast, the Global Government. They propagate the moral values of the world over ALL religions.

The dreadful beast though, will be, I believe Islam.

 

[Matt5]

In the 6th seal, God is going to bring the 7 Continents back into 1 single Continent.

How do get 7 continents going back into 1? Did I miss something in the 6th seal?

 

[TribulationSigns]

If Rome is destroyed, Satan will be forced to relocate to Jerusalem.

In the 6th seal, God is going to bring the 7 Continents back into 1 single Continent. There will no longer be separation imposed by the Flood (Genesis 6). Seal 4 may be when major cities are destroyed by a major war that wipes out 1 billion lives. The Lamb will bring some peace, along with God’s judgments. However this time will be the separation of sheep from the goats and the Lamb will gather people to where they need to be. Will the goats be as compliant as the sheep?

come on... scripture please. Not speculations. Seven Continents into one under sixth seal?!? Lol.

 

[TribulationSigns]

How do get 7 continents going back into 1? Did I miss something in the 6th seal?

It is NOT in the Bible. What you see is nothing but man-made speculations

 

[TribulationSigns]

View attachment 282547

Newspaper Eschatology. You got the four beasts of Daniel confused.

"The Old Testament concealed is the New Testament revealed."

Yes, God uses the figures of 4 "diverse" beasts in Daniel, representing nations that fought against Old Testament Israel. But those nations prefigured Satan's kingdom just as Israel prefigured the kingdom of God. This does not mean that in the New Testament, Satan's kingdom is literal nations, nor that the one beast in Revelation 13 represents 7 physical or literal nations or 10 men, etc. etc.

We cannot go back to the Old Testament earthly "types" to understand New Testament realities in the same way. For example, literal Egypt is a type of the spiritual bondage of Satan's kingdom from where Christ set them free. Same with the literal nation of Babylon, it was a "type" of Satan's kingdom that held the children of Israel captive. Because God used these old testament nations as types, doesn't mean that the types continue into the New Testament as literal nations. Selah!

In fact, I think if we consider the issue carefully we can see this representation right in the very context of Daniel chapter 7:

Daniel 7:17-18

• "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
• But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever."

Here we have God illustrating these four beasts, and clearly declared that the saints of the Most High shall take THEIR kingdom. What Kingdom? It certainly cannot be the literal nations of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media, Greece or Rome. For though four kingdoms (four beasts) or tyrant rulers would invade Israel, bring her into captivity, usurp and treat her violently until the coming of John, yet Israel would be delivered and restored by Christ. But not the "Literal nation Israel" but the spiritual nation Israel which suffered violence from the spiritual kingdom of Satan, which these nations merely "represented."

That is why we need to study Scripture carefully, instead of playing around with the newspaper or world news like you are doing, because these things are not so cut and dried as they may first appear. Selah!

 

[nolidad]

Nolidad, the worship of the beast and his image will be the notable abomination false religion of all times, because Satan will be worshiped (Revelation 13:4). Why would the ten kings go to an effort to destroy that system of the beast, who they believe in? The ten kings are not going to destroy the abomination of desolation statue image on the temple mount.

I fully agree with you that antichrist worship the culmination of false religion. But there is a "one world superchurch" that is a religious system that the ten kings destroy! A woman when used symobically is always a religious system and a harlot used symbolically is a false religious system and Babylon is where all false religious systems on earth was born!

So that leaves what are they are going to destroy with fire, a religion that is worldwide and has many followers, that sits in the place of seven mountains?

There again, it is not that simple to be talking about just one woman, because in wilderness scene, there is a woman sitting upon the scarlet beast, Satan, having the inscription on her forehead, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The scarlet beast is Satan (the red dragon) so the mystery relion gets its power from Satan. when the kings destroy her it is most likely destroying her seat of power! Rome, Jerusalem, New York, London, Damascus, we will have to wait and see where the false religious system sets up its world headquaters.

The angel in Revelation 17:7 tells (informs) that there is a mystery regarding the two, the woman and the scarlet beast, Satan. Starting with verse 8. It is up to the reader to solve the mystery.

And we solve the mystery by keeping reading the passage!
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

There is no mystery left in this!

In Revelation 10:7 there is the Mystery of God that is going to be completed in the days of the 7th trumpet.

So the whole thing, the mystery of the woman, the mystery of Satan, the mystery of God - goes all the way back to the beginning of the bible and Satan's leading a third of the angels to rebel, and to get Adam and Eve to sin - and God's plan to destroy Satan and them who rebelled with him. The destruction of Satan's kingdom in the days of the 7th trumpet, never to rise again. And the bringing of the Kingdom of God here to earth by Jesus's return to be the reigning Kingdom over the nations.

Revelation has to be read with that awareness in mind.

The only mystery of Satan is why He was so foolish.
The mystery of teh woman is explained in REv. 17.
The mystery of God in REv. 10 is still unknown. Anyone who can say definitely they know what it is is presumptious.