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Two Witnesses now preaching in Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by BABerean2, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    How about if the Olive Tree turned into a pile of firewood, or if it started dropping olives on the ground, or if the candlestick's top caught on fire and kept burning like a menorah, would that do it for you, also???

    :scratch:


    .
     
  2. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    You're still waiting for Elijah? Don't you know that John the baptist was Elijah?

    Matthew 11:13-14
    13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
     
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  3. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Don't you know that the truth of God is the fire that destroys the wicked? It's not literal fire. That's only a symbol. That which actually destroys the wicked is the word of God.
     
  4. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    John 1:21
    “And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.”
     
  5. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Really? It will not what you think will happen but the real question is will you listen to the Gospel that I am about to testify concerning verse 6 that you were being sarcastic about? Let's find out:

    Revelation 11:6 KJV
    [6] These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    The power the believers have to shut heaven and turn waters to blood is an illustration of the power they have to bind and loose. They come with the authority of judgement as God makes His inspired testimony at their mouth, to come to pass (thus are they prophets). This word translated power here is the Greek word [exousia], and means legal warrant or right to do these things. It's the exact same word translated 'authority' in verses such as:

    Matthew 8:9
    • "For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it."
    Matthew 21:23
    • "And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?"
    This authority of God given to His prophets to shut Heaven is the authoritative power of the Word of God which they were 'commissioned' to bring. Just as a solder is commissioned to have authority or legal power, so the believers in the Church are commissioned and given authority. The Spirit in the witness of the Word is the authority of the Church,[23]. For example as the Prophet Moses used rain to illustrate the Word.

    Deuteronomy 32:1-2
    • "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
    • My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:"
    Rain (water), Bread, and Sun light are the things which sustain life in this world, and it is no coincidence that God uses all these things as a 'figure' of His Word which sustains life. This is why Christ is spoken of as the Word, the Bread, the Light, and His blood is symbolized as the water of Life. These are all spiritual truths illustrating our Salvation in Him.

    Isaiah 55:10-11
    • "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
    • So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."
    Deuteronomy 32:2
    • "My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:"
    Isaiah 12:2-3
    • "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
    • Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation."
    Ephesians 5:26
    • "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"
    Rain or water is the symbol of the purveyor of life, the Word of God. It is the water by which we live, and the living Word that by which we wash away our sins. As when Christ hung on the cross, there was water which came forth by the shedding of His blood with a spear. These are all spiritual significations. Rain or water is a figure of the Word and of Salvation. And Heaven often signifies the Kingdom of God (Revelation 12:1,4) from which this rain comes. Thus, the authority to shut heaven that it rain not, symbolizes God's judgment upon His unfaithful Kingdom (that is, the earthly representation of the kingdom of heaven) that there be no rain from it. A famine in the land not of a lack of literal water as some suppose, but of hearing the Word of God, which is the spiritual waters. To stop rain from heaven illustrates a judgement from God because of sin, that the Church will cease to have the Word. A ceasing of the blessings which God has promised to His congregation 'only' if they remained faithful to Him, or repented and turned from their sin. Just as the old testament types in Israel also prefigured.

    1 Kings 8:35-36
    • "When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them:
    • Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance."
    So long as Israel remained a faithful congregation, God promised it rain in due season, and bread abundantly. But He also promised His congregation judgement if it turned away from Him to apostasy. He would shut up heaven that they receive no rain, and it would leave the land desolate. And this is the judgment that is spoken of in revelation chapter eleven. Judgement upon the congregation of His inheritance because of unfaithfulness.

    The authority to change waters to blood and to bring plagues upon men are also significations of God's judgments on the fountains (or places where water normally flows) that they are polluted. Just as God brought these judgments in a very literal sense in the plagues upon Egypt by Moses, and literally shut heaven by His prophet Elijah. The Church, coming in that same spirit and power, are given the authority of the Word. Just as John the baptist coming in the spirit and power of Elijah was. He warned of the coming judgement just as Elijah did.

    1st Kings 17:1
    • "And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor RAIN these years, but according to my word".
    We read according to His Word (illustrating that this comes from Elijah), but we understand that it is truly a Word directly from the mouth of God Himself. This language merely illustrates God gave it to 'him' to speak. i.e., he was given authority by God to say these things on behalf of God. Elijah, being God's Prophet, brought this Word of judgment, and so it is spoken of as, 'according to his word.' In other words, he is the messenger, vessel, or tool which God used to get the job done. And like Elijah, the true Church is the Prophet of God who stands before the God of the earth (Revelation 11:4) having power to shut up Heaven that it rain not. Because (like Elijah) they come with the authority of the Word of God. They come in the spirit and power that elijah did. The Spirit of God that they had is the Word of judgement.

    Luke 4:25
    • "But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land:"
    The chart we saw previously showing the final three and a half days after the witnesses had finished their testimony was illustrating this three and a half year. Estimated by the weeks of years of Daniel chapter nine. It is a time of wrath upon this people. Elias (Elijah) did not shut heaven of himself, it was God who shut Heaven that it didn't rain for three and a half years, but God worked the Word of prophecy through him declaring it. In the same way, God works through His prophets today (the Church) to both seek and Save the lost sheep, and to bring judgment upon the unrighteous. And near the second advent, it will be a severe Word of judgment, for there shall be great apostasy.
    It is also striking to note that the three and a half years corresponds exactly to the 42 months that we read the Holy City is tread down of the Gentiles. The famine of hearing the word of God (no rain) lasts as long as these trample the Holy City and God's Word underfoot. And as we know, it is truly God who is bringing this judgment. And the reason is the same as it has always been. Because the love of God has grown cold, the Church has disobeyed His commandments, and they serve a false god by their unfaithfulness. Therefore has God given them up that there be no rain, and therefore has God turned waters to blood. Shutting heaven is a symbol or figure signifying God's people have fallen away from Him and He has cut them off from His Holy Word. His congregation has come under His judgement.

    Deuteronomy 11:13-17
    • "And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
    • That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
    • And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.
    • Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
    • And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you."
    God will sustain His people in this time of famine (as He did Elijah 1st Kings 17:9), but to the wicked, this is a time of His judgement upon them. By the shutting of heaven by the two witnesses, God is illustrating that the prayer and gospel message of the two witnesses works judgment. If we look in the book of James where it speaks of the Church converting a sinner from his ways, and Saving him from death, it also speaks of the shutting heaven. Truly, the consistency is God's doing, illustrating gloriously that He accomplishes His work through His faithful Church.

    James 5:16-17
    • "...the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
    • Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on earth by the space of three years and six months".
    Amos 8:11
    • "Behold the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the Word of God".
    This is the judgement of no rain. This is the famine which is by the authority of God's Word. Not a time of a lack of literal rain or literal water as many suppose. But a time when God has given that His Word not be unto Salvation, but unto judgment. A time of wrath upon this people, by authority of God. The Church shall be judged for her spiritual harlotry and fornication in unfaithfulness. They shall wander from sea to sea searching for the Word of God and they shall not find it because of their abominations. The Waters turning to Blood symbolizes the pollution of the fountain of living waters. The changing of the Churches from a place that by the Spirit brought forth living waters, to a place which no longer has the living waters, but whose water is polluted that it brings death. Turning water to blood was the first of the ten plagues pronounced upon Egypt by Moses as judgment of God. Note the correlation of the Rod of God (word of God) smiting the waters that they become blood.

    (Continue to next post)
     
  6. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    (Contiune from previous post)

    Exodus 7:17-18

    • "Thus saith the LORD, In this thou shalt know that I am the LORD: behold, I will smite with the rod that is in mine hand upon the waters which are in the river, and they shall be turned to blood.
    • And the fish that is in the river shall die, and the river shall stink; and the Egyptians shall lothe to drink of the water of the river."
    The congregation which has spiritually become as Egypt are as the fish in the rivers that shall die in the plague brought about by the Word of God. These two witnesses have power to smite the earth with these plagues that will come upon it as judgement. As is also seen in Revelation chapter fifteen and sixteen in the plagues in the vials which are poured out upon the earth. Those in victory sing the song of Moses, which is a song of just judgments of God.

    Revelation 15:2-4
    • "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
    • And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
    • Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest."
    ..even so O' Lord, come. And note that chapter sixteen says when the vial was poured out, the waters became blood. And the response to this by God's messenger is, 'Thou art righteous O Lord, for they have shed the blood of the saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink, for they are worthy.' These wicked from spiritual Egypt have killed the saints and prophets by their lawlessness, and so their judgment is a removal of the law. As substitution for the waters of life that was once abundant there, they now will have only blood to drink. And certainly not the blood of Christ, but the blood which is on their hands and which is required of them. As they have silenced the gospel, so they must in this manner be killed. By the lack of water of life, or Salvation that they might have been Saved. Again, symbolism signifying the fall of the Church. Just as God used an olive tree having branches cut off to symbolize the fall of the congregation Israel, so He uses waters being turned to blood to symbolize the fall of the New Testament congregation which has become Egypt. And indeed we shall read later in this chapter how when these Witnesses of God finish their Testimony, that they were indeed killed. The judgment that these saints prophesied of will come upon the unfaithful and their waters will be turned to blood signifying there is no more waters of Salvation. The plagues of famine, blood, locusts, etc., is a pattern of this judgment. They are worthy because the Word that these two witnesses brought testifies against them that they are enemies of Christ's Kingdom.
    The doctrine of the Church of God bringing judgment is not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination. It's just that some do not carefully examine scriptures which speak of their authority to Judge, that they might understand this aspect of the power of the Word. For example an oft quoted verse by some groups illustrates this plainly.

    Matthew 16:19
    • "And I will give unto thee the keys of the Kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven".
    Unfortunately, there are some groups who read this and surmise that this means that the Church (or certain members of the church) have been given authority to literally Save or allow some into the Kingdom, while literally condemning or binding others that they cannot enter the Kingdom. But that is like attempting to make man God, giving him decisions which only God has. True believers understand that Salvation is of sovereign God, and is not in any man's hand. There is no possible way that God has given man the power to literally decide for himself who will, or who will not enter the Kingdom, or receive the Spirit of regeneration. That is Biblically absurd no matter who parrots it. Man cannot consciously lock anyone out of the Kingdom of God, or assure anyone can come inside. This unbiblical idea is born of tradition and/or sloppy exegesis. And in point of fact, any person even remotely familiar with the Greek will tell you that this verse in the original literally reads:

    • "...whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall have been bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall have been loosed on earth."
    This is the God inspired tense as a past action. 'Having been' bound, not shall be bound (a future tense). In other words, it's already been decided of God in Heaven and the Church is merely the tool or vessel God uses here on earth to work His decision out. When judgment (binding) comes by our bringing the Word, it is because God has already declared it so in heaven, and this Word at our mouth was meant as a witness against them. Likewise, when Salvation (loosing) comes by our bringing the Word, it is because God has already declared that loosing in heaven, and the Word at our mouth was ordained of God as a witness to draw them to Salvation. No man has been given any power to Save or Condemn 'except' as they are given the 'authority' of the Word, which does. The power in the Word of God is Christ, and His Spirit in us is the keys to the kingdom which we have been given. The true Church indeed comes with power (authority) both to bind and to loose, but it does so because it comes with the testimony of Christ, which does. A Word which Saves, and condemns.

    2nd Corinthians 2:15-16
    • "For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are Saved, and in them that perish:
    • To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?"
    God's Word does not return void. It is either a Word of Salvation, or a word of death. Thus those with the testimony of Christ come with the power (to them that perish) to bind, and to shut the kingdom of heaven, and to smite with plagues, and to kill them with fire from their mouths. All by the power of the Word of God which they have been given. Those professing Christians who have forsaken God are judged by the very same Word of God which is to the Elect unto Salvation.

    1st Corinthians 11:29
    • "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."
    Clearly, the Word of God taken unworthily by those merely professing Salvation, is unto them the judgment of damnation.

    The overview of Revelation chapter eleven is that it illustrates the Church is given power or authority to be a prophet of God, in the spirit and power of Elijah. We are commissioned to go forth with the authoritative power of the Word, in judgment. A judgment which shuts heaven that man not receive the spiritual rain because of their wickedness. They come with the Spirit and power that Moses had over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will. Because their will is to do the will of God. And their testimony is the Word of God. It is a Word which is not powerless, but authoritative. As messengers of God, their authority is to do all God has sent them to do. To bring the Word of God as waters to a thirsty soul, and to bring the Word of God as a two-edged Sword of complete destruction which cuts both coming and going. To bring the Word both as bread to those who hunger after righteousness, and to bring the Word as a devouring fire for those who reject righteousness. They come with a Word that binds, and with a Word that looses, because they come with an authority which is not their own. This is the same figure we saw when God said these two witnesses came with fire from their mouths, in one sense is our Salvation in Christ, and in another sense it can be as a flood, and a symbol of death in God's judgments.
     
  7. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    Obviously he was not the actual Elijah, but he came in the spirit of Elijah. That's the point!
     
  8. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Bible is quite clear that John the Baptist is called “Elijah” because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah” (Luke 1:17), not because he was Elijah in a literal sense, hence the differing wording. John the Baptist is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah filled that role in the Old Testament - If you accept Jesus as the Messiah anyway. If you dont accept Jesus as Messiah your still waiting for Elijah to come.
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    :amen:
    And will continue to be preached unto the ages of the ages........

    Revelation 14:6
    Then I saw another Messenger flying in the mid heaven, having the everlasting<166> Gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—
    to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—
     
  10. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Did John the Baptist lie about himself then ?
    Jesus said John was Elijah IF THEY ACCEPTED , meaning if they didn;t he was not simple . They did not .
     
  11. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Yea I don't like this Scripture , if he said Yes maybe phariasies would repent .
     
  12. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, IF they accepted Christ... IF you accept Christ as the promised Messiah then John the Baptist is His forerunner, come in the Spirit of Elijah.. IF you don't then your still waiting.. its very clear. Thats what Jesus said.
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    In that case, wouldn't it be ONLY the Jews waiting?
     
  14. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

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    You people do realize that the actual original Elijah is not coming back, right?
     
  15. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Technically it would be the Jews who say they are Jews but are not.

    There are those who have a circumcised heart (Jews) and those who do not (Jews who say they are Jews but are not)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Two Witnesses now preaching in Jerusalem

    But can they do this?


    Luke 1
    16 And he will turn many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God,
    17 and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

    Revelation 11:6
    These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
    and have power over waters to turn them to blood,

    and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    James 5:17
    Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain;
    and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months.


    1Kings 17:1
    And Elijah the Tishbite, of the inhabitants of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the LORD God of Israel lives, before whom I stand,
    there shall not be dew nor rain these years, except at my word.”

     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    They are not claiming to be Moses and Elijah. I believe the two witnesses will literally be Moses and Elijah.
     
  18. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    I guess its a waiting game then
     
  19. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    But did not Jesus say " Elijah has already come and they did whatever they wanted to him ( and Jesus was referring to John the Baptist who came in the spirit of Elijah . )
     
  20. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    In that great city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt where also our Lord was crucified ...In Ezekiel it says , this is the sin of your sister Sodom , pride , fullness of bread , idleness of hands and you dealt not your bread to the hungry . Why is that Jerusalem ...if anywhere Jesus was ALSO crucified , it would be here in the USA because it seems the real Jesus ..( The Way , the TRUTH and the life )has been crucified in so many different ways .
     
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