• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Two Possibilities in Explaining Christ's Divine Behavior & His Limited Human Behavior.

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Jason0047, Aug 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Who here is willing to say Jesus had lusts?
     
  2. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    If God says we are to worship God alone, then how can we worship Jesus if He has a human soul and human spirit?
     
  3. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I believe the Son of Man title for himself was the temple (or the flesh and blood body) with him suppressing His divine power of Omniscience.

    Also, stop and think for a second. If Jesus did take on a human soul and or human spirit in some way, then this would mean Jesus came into existence into our universe as a newly created being and that means He has not always existed. But this contradicts Micah 5:2, John 1:1-5, etc.

    Again, I am not saying that HU (Hypostatic Union) is not true. It can still work as a slim possibility IF one accepts that Christ is able to speak from the perspective of a divine side and then later from His human side (Thereby suggesting that He is not a perfect amalgam of two natures unified as one).
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +26,449
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    A fallen state. Again the Incarnation was a miracle without a human father. There are no materialistic or natural ways to explain such because it is a miracle. Mary was human and she provided the very same elements all human mothers provide to their children.
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +26,449
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Because He is truly God.
     
  6. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

    +1,848
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    "and thou didst not leave his soul in hell"

    from a Psalm prophesying Jesus' death and descent into hades

    He had a SOUL that was not to be left in hell.
     
  7. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yes, I believe it was by the virgin birth that helped to bypass the sin of Adam being spread to Jesus. I believe Mary provided the physical DNA to make up the DNA of the body for Jesus Christ. But his mind, will, and emotions were 100% God. They had to be, otherwise you are faced with many contradictions in Scripture.
     
  8. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +26,449
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    My point was humans were originally created without sin.
     
  9. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    God has a soul.

    Leviticus 26:11
    And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

    Leviticus 26:30
    And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

    Isaiah 42:1
    Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    Zechariah 11:8
    Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

    Matthew 12:18
    Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    Hebrews 10:38
    Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
     
  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us Ecumenical loose canon

    +1,848
    United States
    Methodist
    Private
    US-Others
    Psa 16:10
    For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Act 2:27
    Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    Act 2:31
    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
     
  11. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    But they were not created higher than the Heavens like Jesus (as mentioned in Hebrews 7:26). Also, Adam would be included as a sinner. Jesus was said to be holy and separate from sinners. Jesus is the second man. This second man is the Lord from Heaven and not a newly created being within the universe.
     
  12. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yes, Jesus is truly God. But if He had a human soul or human spirit, this would undo the command to worship God alone. For we are not to worship anyone or anything but God alone. If a human soul or human spirit was thrown into the mix, that would destroy us being able to worship God alone. It would be worshiping God + some newly created human soul and human spirit, too.
     
  13. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    See my post #29.
     
  14. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +26,449
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Since there are no contradictions in Holy Writ (I know you agree), then when faced with a paradox we examine all the truths and not just some of them.

    This is where I wish this discussion could be on a front porch with a refreshing glass of iced tea or lemonade. My best advice brother is to examine the paradox from the perspective of Jesus Christ as Son of Man and Jesus Christ as Son of God. There is no separation of the truly God and truly human here yet He was/is both and because He was/is we have our wonderful gift of salvation.

    Personally? I was raised Roman Catholic and the Trinity and historic orthodox Christology is taught from the cradle as FACT. When God in His great Mercy and Grace called me a damned destitute sinner to salvation and repentance, I had to square some doctrines with my new found love the Word of God. So I immediately keyed in on "Son of Man" what exactly does that mean, and then "Son of God" what does that exactly mean and how can He be both and that got me searching. He had to be truly a human being in all aspects of humanity (without sin). That means Jesus of Nazareth had to have my very own mortal body and how my humanity informs that body. He needed to have a soul and not be a soulless frame of flesh. How he agonized in the garden of Gethsemane really did it for me. Our human will comes from our soul/spirit and Jesus clearly stated in that garden:

    Luke 22: KJV

    39And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. 40And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. 41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +19,572
    Anglican
    Married
    It wouldn't be the sacrifice of a human, however. It would be, in theory, something unique. Sort of an animal sacrifice, I warrant, but then we would be left to say that because of the death of a talking hybrid not like any one of us in all his everyday doings, and who had no choice in the matter of his death, God had taken the sins of the world on himself, etc. Really?

    Are you supposing that men would be listening to the sermon on the mount as delivered by an alien traveler, a spectre, or some kind of zombie-like being on the order of Frankenstein's monster? And taking lessons in morality from how he behaved? Not in the real world.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  16. Jason0047

    Jason0047 Give in secret & you will be rewarded openly. Supporter

    +4,697
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Do you believe Jesus had the capacity to sin?
     
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +26,449
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Again, the Incarnation addresses this. Jesus Christ Son of the Living God had/has two natures but is one Person. The Divine Logos is eternal.
     
  18. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +19,572
    Anglican
    Married
    and while we are talking about that, what if he were not a complete human like ourselves--what would the Resurrection be?

    It would mean that something overcame physical death, but it would not suggest that we too would experience the same thing!
     
  19. JerseyChristianSuperstar

    JerseyChristianSuperstar Member

    119
    +131
    United States
    Calvinist
    Single
    US-Democrat

    I'm sure you've read a DC comic book once or twice, right? You know the superhero, Martian Manhunter? Cool guy.

    Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onnz) is a Martian, not a human being, but he occasionally takes on the guise and physical form of a human being during which times he goes by the name John Jones, although he is not really human.

    Are you saying that God was just pulling a Martian Manhunter here, wearing a disguise, and that He did not become truly human at the Incarnation 2000 years ago?

    How, then, can we call Jesus "Immanuel", meaning "God with us", when He never really condescended to our level and was never truly a human being?

    I believe Jesus was truly man and truly God, He did take on a human nature and will and mind.

    Why do I say this? Look at this quote from Jesus:

    Luke 22:42 - "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."

    Jesus was clearly distinguishing between His will and the Father's will: He is referring to His human will here, which is connected to His human nature.

    If you're saying that Apollinarianism is true and Christ, the 2nd Person of the Trinity, took on a human nature and will, then you're are essentially saying there are three divine wills in the Trinity: that of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, as opposed to the orthodox position of there being one Divine will.

    This, of course, leads to tritheism/polytheism, as three divine wills undoubtedly means three gods.
     
  20. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

    +26,449
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    What you quoted says Jesus was like "us."

    Hebrews 7: NASB
    26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

    Meaning He became human like us. Then the qualifiers follow...He is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners and made higher than the heavens. What the writer of Hebrews is contrasting prior to this is the human priestly service of Aaron and his sons. The "higher than the heavens" is the service of the high priest Jesus Christ.

    Was the Incarnation of Jesus Christ 'special?'---Absolutely.

    Think on what is communicated in this verse and entire chapter. Jesus human like us means body, soul-spirit as what was God's design from the beginning.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...