Two people, Two sins, Two Judgments?

[AmusingMargaret]

Person One
A lady with a family and personal history of alcoholism: She has battled it for years and watched her father and brother lost their battles to the bottle. She often earnestly cried out for freedom, and regularly went long periods of time without drinking, during which time she was faithful to church, where she mostly sat in the back and kept to herself. She read her Bible often, and she prayed a lot, even when she was drunk. After giving in one more time to the addiction, in the middle of a weekend binge, she dies.

Person Two
A man is 150 pounds overweight. He rarely diets, but reminds himself that he needs to start a diet…maybe next Monday he’ll get started. He never misses church, is well-known and well-liked. He is at every prayer meeting, helps others when he can, and is a frequent volunteer for those jobs no one else wants to do. He is dedicated to serving Christ, prays, and studies the Word. One night after stuffing himself at a buffet, he has a heart attack and dies.

Does God judge each person individually based on their particular vice, or is all sin judged the same? Is being 150 pounds overweight and gluttonous or being drunk really a sin? Why or why not?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Like Rev. Lovejoy from the Simpsons claimed....” pretty much everything is A sin”.
A wise person would seek a Saviour who could rescue them from their sins.If these two sinful individuals( we should not judge them just because their sins are different from ours) saw that they were sinners and turned to God ( repentance) to be saved they are in fine shape now.

 

[Doug Melven]

Temperance is a fruit of the Spirit.
If you walk in the Spirit you won't fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Overeating and getting drunk are the same in God's eyes, they both indulge the flesh.

 

[Not me]

Person One
A lady with a family and personal history of alcoholism: She has battled it for years and watched her father and brother lost their battles to the bottle. She often earnestly cried out for freedom, and regularly went long periods of time without drinking, during which time she was faithful to church, where she mostly sat in the back and kept to herself. She read her Bible often, and she prayed a lot, even when she was drunk. After giving in one more time to the addiction, in the middle of a weekend binge, she dies.

Person Two
A man is 150 pounds overweight. He rarely diets, but reminds himself that he needs to start a diet…maybe next Monday he’ll get started. He never misses church, is well-known and well-liked. He is at every prayer meeting, helps others when he can, and is a frequent volunteer for those jobs no one else wants to do. He is dedicated to serving Christ, prays, and studies the Word. One night after stuffing himself at a buffet, he has a heart attack and dies.

Does God judge each person individually based on their particular vice, or is all sin judged the same? Is being 150 pounds overweight and gluttonous or being drunk really a sin? Why or why not?

In your scenario are both people in Christ? For if they are;

Scripture says those that are “in Christ” shall not see judgement.

All question of judgement live or die on the fact of having the Birth of the Son of God in the soul. (i.e. being born again)

Much blessing in Christ, Not me

 

[AmusingMargaret]

Temperance is a fruit of the Spirit.
If you walk in the Spirit you won't fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Overeating and getting drunk are the same in God's eyes, they both indulge the flesh.

If only addiction were that easy to explain away. If only! A praying, believing addict who has begged God for years for deliverance but still fights the same battle is something you can never understand until you've walked the road. God does not always heal, and He doesn't always break the chains of His children for whatever reason.

 

[Not me]

If only addiction were that easy to explain away. If only! A praying, believing addict who has begged God for years for deliverance but still fights the same battle is something you can never understand until you've walked the road. God does not always heal, and He doesn't always break the chains of His children for whatever reason.

This may be none of my business, but God has made a way for all people to be freed from whatever sins bind them. It is by the way of “death to self” this is the way to be freed from all sins. It is simply understanding what our salvation in Christ consists of.

Consider; how could you be guaranteed never to sin again? It is your death. If you were to die right this second, sin would have no more power over you. This is what is meant in scripture about us having “died in Christ”. Regardless of what sin binds you freedom is waiting for you. When a individual comes to the place where they would rather die, than sin, this is what God is waiting for, this realization, that to die, is better than to sin. When this place has been come to, the individual is in the proper state to realize that the only hope, is no hope in themselves. It is than that the individual crys out to God from the depths of their heart with no looking back. For until this point is reached they will inevitably look to themselves for some sort of strength or salvation. But when this point is reached they cry out like Paul did “who shall deliver me from the body of this death”
It is than that the Son shines in the heart a new day dawns and the command to “reckon yourself dead” becomes the most blessed command ever given. And you see what the foundation of our salvation in Christ is. Our death to self.

Much love and prayers in Christ, Not me

(hope it helps)

 

[Doug Melven]

If only addiction were that easy to explain away. If only! A praying, believing addict who has begged God for years for deliverance but still fights the same battle is something you can never understand until you've walked the road. God does not always heal, and He doesn't always break the chains of His children for whatever reason.

Addiction may be a bigger problem for us, it is not a bigger problem for God.
I don't minimize addiction, I maximize God.
So many people have this the other way around.

And I have walked the road of addiction.
Addicted to drugs, alcohol, and the party life. Replaced that with an addiction to inappropriate content which became child inappropriate content later which resulted in 58 months in prison.
Those addictions are gone, replaced with Christ. Now I know what freedom is.

 

[AmusingMargaret]

It's hard...watching someone struggle, and I know they are sincere and love the Lord. They fully realize that the addiction is stronger than them, and tell God they can't do it, begging Him for help. I can quote all the right scriptures to them, and they can receive it/believe it, and earnestly cry out for forgiveness and freedom, and they get up from their knees hopeful, only to find the struggle is still there. They absolutely do not believe they have the power to change, and God doesn't seem to be granting them that grace. When what the scripture says and their reality doesn't match up...what do you do? What's more, people give them all the verses and the Godly advice like you have written out here, and they try to believe it...after years of trying to believe and walk in freedom, but fail, they fall into a pit of hopelessness, discouragement and despair. All they can hear is "This is your fault, you are not dying to self!" when they've tried and tried....and tried. They are exhausted and weary from trying. And they will see someone else set completely free in an instant. I don't know. I didn't mean for this thread to get this serious, but it is a reality for some people.

 

[AmusingMargaret]

This may be none of my business, but God has made a way for all people to be freed from whatever sins bind them. It is by the way of “death to self” this is the way to be freed from all sins. It is simply understanding what our salvation in Christ consists of.

Consider; how could you be guaranteed never to sin again? It is your death. If you were to die right this second, sin would have no more power over you. This is what is meant in scripture about us having “died in Christ”. Regardless of what sin binds you freedom is waiting for you. When a individual comes to the place where they would rather die, than sin, this is what God is waiting for, this realization, that to die, is better than to sin. When this place has been come to, the individual is in the proper state to realize that the only hope, is no hope in themselves. It is than that the individual crys out to God from the depths of their heart with no looking back. For until this point is reached they will inevitably look to themselves for some sort of strength or salvation. But when this point is reached they cry out like Paul did “who shall deliver me from the body of this death”
It is than that the Son shines in the heart a new day dawns and the command to “reckon yourself dead” becomes the most blessed command ever given. And you see what the foundation of our salvation in Christ is. Our death to self.

Much love and prayers in Christ, Not me

(hope it helps)

I posted this below, thinking I was replying to you...so it will be on here twice:

It's hard...watching someone struggle, and I know they are sincere and love the Lord. They fully realize that the addiction is stronger than them, and tell God they can't do it, begging Him for help. I can quote all the right scriptures to them, and they can receive it/believe it, and earnestly cry out for forgiveness and freedom, and they get up from their knees hopeful, only to find the struggle is still there. They absolutely do not believe they have the power to change, and God doesn't seem to be granting them that grace. When what the scripture says and their reality doesn't match up...what do you do? What's more, people give them all the verses and the Godly advice like you have written out here, and they try to believe it...after years of trying to believe and walk in freedom, but fail, they fall into a pit of hopelessness, discouragement and despair. All they can hear is "This is your fault, you are not dying to self!" when they've tried and tried....and tried. They are exhausted and weary from trying. And they will see someone else set completely free in an instant. I don't know. I didn't mean for this thread to get this serious, but it is a reality for some people.

 

[Doug Melven]

It's hard...watching someone struggle, and I know they are sincere and love the Lord. They fully realize that the addiction is stronger than them, and tell God they can't do it, begging Him for help. I can quote all the right scriptures to them, and they can receive it/believe it, and earnestly cry out for forgiveness and freedom, and they get up from their knees hopeful, only to find the struggle is still there.

I can't speak for others, just myself.
My main problem was that I could not forgive myself. I lived in shame of what I had done.
I wanted so badly to stop having those thoughts, but every time I had one I would just beat myself up over it.
And this was after being locked up for for almost 3 years.
I knew the Scriptures, I could give all the correct answers, but when I was alone I would have those horrible images come to mind and I would dwell on them. Putting me back into shame.
I couldn't understand why I couldn't get free of this addiction.
Then one day I was talking with a friend about my problem and he told me I should look in the mirror every day and say, "God loves you".
I felt like such a hypocrite, how could God love me after what I had done.
I had hid what I was doing from my family and they all thought I was the perfect son and the day the police came to take me away the pain I saw in my brother's eyes haunted me.
I felt I had completely betrayed my Mom's love.
I felt I was truly a horrible person. And somehow I was supposed to believe that God loved me?
But I kept at it. It took awhile but one day I found I actually believed what I was saying, God does love me and now I knew it.
And now I knew the truth of, "God wants a relationship with me way more than I want one with Him".
When you finally come to realize how much God loves you, you will be set free.
Jesus said, "If you know the truth, the truth shall set you free".

 

[AmusingMargaret]

I can't speak for others, just myself.
My main problem was that I could not forgive myself. I lived in shame of what I had done.
I wanted so badly to stop having those thoughts, but every time I had one I would just beat myself up over it.
And this was after being locked up for for almost 3 years.
I knew the Scriptures, I could give all the correct answers, but when I was alone I would have those horrible images come to mind and I would dwell on them. Putting me back into shame.
I couldn't understand why I couldn't get free of this addiction.
Then one day I was talking with a friend about my problem and he told me I should look in the mirror every day and say, "God loves you".
I felt like such a hypocrite, how could God love me after what I had done.
I had hid what I was doing from my family and they all thought I was the perfect son and the day the police came to take me away the pain I saw in my brother's eyes haunted me.
I felt I had completely betrayed my Mom's love.
I felt I was truly a horrible person. And somehow I was supposed to believe that God loved me?
But I kept at it. It took awhile but one day I found I actually believed what I was saying, God does love me and now I knew it.
And now I knew the truth of, "God wants a relationship with me way more than I want one with Him".
When you finally come to realize how much God loves you, you will be set free.
Jesus said, "If you know the truth, the truth shall set you free".

Thank you so much for sharing your heart like this. What a wonderful thing your friend suggested, I think I will borrow it!

 

[Not me]

I posted this below, thinking I was replying to you...so it will be on here twice:

It's hard...watching someone struggle, and I know they are sincere and love the Lord. They fully realize that the addiction is stronger than them, and tell God they can't do it, begging Him for help. I can quote all the right scriptures to them, and they can receive it/believe it, and earnestly cry out for forgiveness and freedom, and they get up from their knees hopeful, only to find the struggle is still there. They absolutely do not believe they have the power to change, and God doesn't seem to be granting them that grace. When what the scripture says and their reality doesn't match up...what do you do? What's more, people give them all the verses and the Godly advice like you have written out here, and they try to believe it...after years of trying to believe and walk in freedom, but fail, they fall into a pit of hopelessness, discouragement and despair. All they can hear is "This is your fault, you are not dying to self!" when they've tried and tried....and tried. They are exhausted and weary from trying. And they will see someone else set completely free in an instant. I don't know. I didn't mean for this thread to get this serious, but it is a reality for some people.

It is not anybody’s “fault”, they are in the “school of Christ”. But until they come to the place where they would rather die, than to sin, they will continue to struggle. For only giving up the struggle to save oneself and totally throw yourself to/at the mercy of God, to be really helped by Him in the here and now. Only this total and absolutely dependence on God will free any individual. Though these words are hard to hear, many people are quite sincere with there desire after God. But they want it on their terms and not Gods. Gods terms are “trust me in all things, for I love you” You can pray with your friend, stand with him, but he has to walk the path himself. But when he cry’s out to God, that he would rather die than live in sin, and means it from the bottom of his heart. That is when freedom for sin will be found. Will be praying for you both.

Having this promise, “that He will perfect that which concerns us”

Trust and believe he’s working in your friends life. Which he most assuredly is. For he would not be struggling so if God was not.

Much love and prayer, Not me.

 

[Wet Squirrel]

Person One
A lady with a family and personal history of alcoholism: She has battled it for years and watched her father and brother lost their battles to the bottle. She often earnestly cried out for freedom, and regularly went long periods of time without drinking, during which time she was faithful to church, where she mostly sat in the back and kept to herself. She read her Bible often, and she prayed a lot, even when she was drunk. After giving in one more time to the addiction, in the middle of a weekend binge, she dies.

Person Two
A man is 150 pounds overweight. He rarely diets, but reminds himself that he needs to start a diet…maybe next Monday he’ll get started. He never misses church, is well-known and well-liked. He is at every prayer meeting, helps others when he can, and is a frequent volunteer for those jobs no one else wants to do. He is dedicated to serving Christ, prays, and studies the Word. One night after stuffing himself at a buffet, he has a heart attack and dies.

Does God judge each person individually based on their particular vice, or is all sin judged the same? Is being 150 pounds overweight and gluttonous or being drunk really a sin? Why or why not?

Matthew 15:11

 

[Dave-W]

Person #1 is not so much in sin as in iniquity. That is a different thing.

 

[AmusingMargaret]

Person #1 is not so much in sin as in iniquity. That is a different thing.

How would over-indulgence in food any less iniquitous than over-indulgence in alcohol? I would think the sin is not food, nor necessarily alcohol, but the lack of temperance.

 

[mark kennedy]

Person One
A lady with a family and personal history of alcoholism: She has battled it for years and watched her father and brother lost their battles to the bottle. She often earnestly cried out for freedom, and regularly went long periods of time without drinking, during which time she was faithful to church, where she mostly sat in the back and kept to herself. She read her Bible often, and she prayed a lot, even when she was drunk. After giving in one more time to the addiction, in the middle of a weekend binge, she dies.

Person Two
A man is 150 pounds overweight. He rarely diets, but reminds himself that he needs to start a diet…maybe next Monday he’ll get started. He never misses church, is well-known and well-liked. He is at every prayer meeting, helps others when he can, and is a frequent volunteer for those jobs no one else wants to do. He is dedicated to serving Christ, prays, and studies the Word. One night after stuffing himself at a buffet, he has a heart attack and dies.

Does God judge each person individually based on their particular vice, or is all sin judged the same? Is being 150 pounds overweight and gluttonous or being drunk really a sin? Why or why not?

It kind of depends, sometimes the worst part about the sin is the sin itself. The alcoholic example sounds like someone who was born into a family that was prone to alcoholism. It would have been a lot better if she found her way into a meeting of AA, but not everyone reacts to alcohol the same way. I can't call that one.

A guy who basically ate himself to death. Did you know that NFL linebackers only live about ten years after leaving the NFL? They basically eat themselves to death.

God doesn't just judge us for what we do, God knows why we do it. That makes all the difference, the only real answer, it just depends.

 

[Dave-W]

How would over-indulgence in food any less iniquitous than over-indulgence in alcohol? I would think the sin is not food, nor necessarily alcohol, but the lack of temperance.

Your story makes the difference.

The alcoholic was following a family history of alcohol abuse. The word means to be bent and twisted by what went before.

 

[AmusingMargaret]

Your story makes the difference.

The alcoholic was following a family history of alcohol abuse. The word means to be bent and twisted by what went before.

The glutton was following a lifetime of gluttony. People often overlook gluttony, but not drugs or alcohol.

 

[Doug Melven]

The glutton was following a lifetime of gluttony. People often overlook gluttony, but not drugs or alcohol.

I think people like to overlook gluttony as there are many fat people in church (we couldn't possibly be sinning).
But alcoholism, that's really bad, they say. Those people are in sin, not us fat people.
This from someone who is about 50 pounds overweight.

 

[AmusingMargaret]

I think people like to overlook gluttony as there are many fat people in church (we couldn't possibly be sinning).
But alcoholism, that's really bad, they say. Those people are in sin, not us fat people.
This from someone who is about 50 pounds overweight.

Thank you! haha You said that perfectly! Preachers don't like to talk about gluttony, either. I'm not judging them, it would definitely be hard to stand in front of a congregation where at least 50% are overweight and tell them..."Hey, y'all are getting fat." (From one who likes to overeat her-own-self)