Twitter - Should I stay or should I go

DaisyDay

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The owner has every right to downsize his workforce, especially if he disestablishes roles (redundancies) but legally (I'm not sure about USA laws) this ought to mean he cannot hire people for those redundant roles.

I don't have a problem with him firing staff for going to public social media and saying derogatory stuff about the company or company directors or owners. The company should have an established policy about such stuff on public social media sites.

But it seems beyond the pale for him to have been so disruptive to staff moral in his first 2 weeks of ownership, with big changes such as mass redundancies, demanding instantly changing from work from home to work from office, demanding staff work hard (hard is fair enough, but is he demanding 80 hrs per week?), demanding programmers fly in and show him their code (this is just nuts). And then to top that off, after he has upset all his staff, he then spies on them, in private internal communications, and fires people he thinks have been talking bad about him.

I think it will be fascinating to see where the company goes from here. I have no dog in this race. I have never used Twitter, I don't actually know why people use it. I don't care about this weird idea of "free speech no matter what the cost", I don't believe that the voice of the political right has been suppressed previously (I just expect that dangerous or bigotted tweets have been removed and serious misinformation that could lead to deaths during a global pandemic have been removed regardless of the political leanings of the poster. I don't see these things as being inherently political right or left.
In the US, it mainly depends on which state as some favor employees and some favor employers, but usually employers can fire whomever they please and refill them at will. Unions protect workers, but they are increasingly rare. Although it is illegal, many non-union shops fire employees merely for talking about unionizing (Starbucks, Amazon).
 
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FireDragon76

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I left Twitter today.

I have no illusions that my departure will make any difference - but - it's like voting. If 1,000,000 people like me depart it will have an impact.

I left because of Musk's attitude to his employees. I also left because I suspect Musk's simplistic attitude to freedom of speech will turn Twitter into a sewer which has huge potential for damaging society - particularly the US.

OB

Thanks for your concern.

I never bothered with Twitter. And now I think I never will. A multinational website with no content moderation policies... what could go wrong, huh? It'll only be a matter of time before it becomes a haven for Russian troll farms.
 
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Nithavela

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RestoreTheJoy

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To steal a phrase from The Clash - "Should I stay or should I go"
We hear lots of news lately about Elon Musk's heavy hand blazing a trail of destruction through his newly acquired company Twitter.
He fired half his staff and with his heavy hand he has been monitoring and spying on staff internal conversations on private slack channels and firing people that have said negative things about him.
He has demanded people to work in office and to commit to long hours at high intensity or leave. Early reporting is suggesting that the majority of staff are choosing to leave.
Way to go Elon, how to, within the space of two weeks turn a workforce from highly engaged, passionate, valued, proud and excited, to disgusted, disengaged, unvalued, disappointed and wanting to leave.

Anyway, this thread isn't about staff. This is about users and how they might be answering the question "Should I stay or should I go"
There doesn't seem to be much media focus on this.
We have heard about the Blue Check fiasco, where user's could trust that celebreties and people and organisations with official positions had been verified by Twitter and so the messages coming from accounts with the Blue Check could be trusted as coming from the people and organisations that user think these are coming from. But now with the Blue Check just meaning that a subscription fee has been paid, now users have no idea who is saying what.
But other than this Blue Check, we don't really hear much about the impact on users.
Are users staying or leaving?

After Elon Musk’s abrupt takeover of Twitter, many people saw and heard so many SEOs and marketers take the bold but necessary step of leaving the platform.

But a recent poll that was conducted in this regard proved that users are not ready to leave just yet.


The bizzareness of the above narrative is that from that linked to poll, 21% have said that they have left already (which is massive) and a further 12% have said that they are planning to leave. This makes 33% of the user base (at least those responding to the poll) have said that they have already left or are planning to leave. Which completely contradicts the article which says "proved that users are not ready to leave just yet"

Twitter is struggling to keep its most active users - who are vital to the business - engaged, underscoring a challenge faced by the Tesla chief executive as he approaches a deadline to close his $44 billion deal to buy the company.
These "heavy tweeters" account for less than 10% of monthly overall users but generate 90% of all tweets and half of global revenue. Heavy tweeters have been in "absolute decline" since the pandemic began, a Twitter researcher wrote in an internal document titled “Where did the Tweeters Go?”
...interest in news, sports and entertainment is waning among those users. Tweets on those topics, which have helped Twitter burnish an image as the world’s "digital town square," as Musk once called it, are also the most desirable for advertisers.


So it seems that Twitter was facing some big problems (even before Musk's takeover) of the active users becoming disengaged and less active and moving towards links and conversations that are less appealing to advertisers.

Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter has some in Hollywood heading for the exit.

"Grey's Anatomy" creator Shonda Rhimes and others in the entertainment industry say they plan to quit the platform now that it is owned by Musk, a self-proclaimed "free speech absolutist" who has vowed to make sweeping changes — including potentially reversing the ban on former President Donald Trump.

"Not hanging around for whatever Elon has planned. Bye," Rhimes tweeted to her nearly 2 million Twitter followers Saturday afternoon, two days after Musk closed his $44 billion deal to purchase the service.


I don't know what the above means. Is this just a few anecdotes. Are all celebreties thinking this way, or just some? Are celebretities significant to keeping Twitter interesting for other users????

Anyway, I'm not a Twitter user, I don't have an account. I am just interested in whether Musk is destroying this platform or not. Twitter is obviously a very significant platform to many people.
The only way to answer your question of whether you should stay or you should go is:

If (you) go, will there be trouble?
And if (you) stay will it be double? ;)

Seriously, if you enjoy Twitter, stay. Don't read anyone who bothers you, just like you don't listen to all telephone calls made in the world or read all Facebook (or other site) posts there are. Easy.

It's a shame that some are SO intolerant that they cannot bear that someone else, with whom they may disagree, may now speak, and will no longer be silenced. So what? Don't read it, if it bothers you that much. Or better yet, logically refute what you read with facts and evidence.

No one is stopping those flouncing from speaking, nor did they ever. It is just that those threatening to flounce cannot tolerate that others who disagree with them may also be permitted to speak.

It's confusing, but I guess it is best if everyone knows and establishes his own limits.
 
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stevil

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It's a shame that some are SO intolerant that they cannot bear that someone else, with whom they may disagree, may now speak, and will no longer be silenced. So what? Don't read it, if it bothers you that much. Or better yet, logically refute what you read with facts and evidence.

No one is stopping those flouncing from speaking, nor did they ever. It is just that those threatening to flounce cannot tolerate that others who disagree with them may also be permitted to speak.
It's not about freedom of speech or tolerance of words.

It's about 2 items
1.Continuing to support or refusing to support a person who is incredibly mean to his employees
2. Continuing to support or refusing to support an organisation/platform that allows the spread of hate, calls to violence and misinformation that leads to mass deaths.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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It's not about freedom of speech or tolerance of words.

It's about 2 items
1.Continuing to support or refusing to support a person who is incredibly mean to his employees
2. Continuing to support or refusing to support an organisation/platform that allows the spread of hate, calls to violence and misinformation that leads to mass deaths.
How is he "mean to his employees"? Requiring them to show up? Asking them to commit to hard work instead of the loose home schedule many had kept? What precisely constitutes "mean"?

Do you ever ride a plane? Someone in that organization allows "the spread of hate" (vague as that is). Violence happens every day on airlines. Misinformation leading to deaths? Misinformation does not lead to deaths. Making the wrong decision for you (whether it's a drug, or just being unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time) leads to death. Hearing all sides of an issue does NOT "lead to death".

Pharmaceutical companies are hit with billion dollar judgments almost yearly due to the outcomes of drugs they put on the market. Ever get an antibiotic? Then you have supported that, like all of us.
 
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stevil

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How is he "mean to his employees"? Requiring them to show up? Asking them to commit to hard work instead of the loose home schedule many had kept? What precisely constitutes "mean"?
Perhaps things are done differently in USA to my country. We seem to be much more humanistic and less authoritarian over here.
If we are going to implement change such as getting staff back into the office rather than the common work from home strategy, we typically give plenty of notice and allow people time to make arrangements to deal with this change. Ease people in rather than give them a couple of days and just threaten to fire people straight off the bat.
We also don't spy on staff internal comms and fire people that speak negatively about the illustrious leader.
And also demanding that all programmers fly in to show lines of code (this is very degrading and totally unnecessary). If the boss wants to know what workers are doing, he/she should be discussing with managers, if he/she wants to know where development focus is, again talk to managers, if he/she wants to know long term strategies then read roadmap documents, speak to managers, talk to architects. No need to disrupt the lives of every programmer. No need to get them stressed and worried.
Also depends on what is meant by "hard work". If the employee has signed up to a 40hr week, you can't just force them to work 80hr weeks. Not in my country anyway.
Misinformation does not lead to deaths. Making the wrong decision for you (whether it's a drug, or just being unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time) leads to death. Hearing all sides of an issue does NOT "lead to death".
I don't know where you get this from?

How many people in USA don't think masks work? Especially those that listen to Fox News opinion shows and other right wing media that state this nonsense.
How many people in USA don't think the Covid vaccine works? How many think the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease?
How many think Ivermectine works on Covid? How many think Hydrochloraquine works on Covid?
From reports I have seen, Republicans have been twice as likely to have died from Covid than Democrats, which means that people have certainly died because they received and believed misinformation.


How many people in USA believe that the 2020 election was stolen? How many are outraged by this and violently attacked the Capitol, or are considering taking up arms against the "left"? i.e.
"I mean, literally, where’s the line? How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?" - 'How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?'
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Perhaps things are done differently in USA to my country. We seem to be much more humanistic and less authoritarian over here.
If we are going to implement change such as getting staff back into the office rather than the common work from home strategy, we typically give plenty of notice and allow people time to make arrangements to deal with this change. Ease people in rather than give them a couple of days and just threaten to fire people straight off the bat.
We also don't spy on staff internal comms and fire people that speak negatively about the illustrious leader.
And also demanding that all programmers fly in to show lines of code (this is very degrading and totally unnecessary). If the boss wants to know what workers are doing, he/she should be discussing with managers, if he/she wants to know where development focus is, again talk to managers, if he/she wants to know long term strategies then read roadmap documents, speak to managers, talk to architects. No need to disrupt the lives of every programmer. No need to get them stressed and worried.
Also depends on what is meant by "hard work". If the employee has signed up to a 40hr week, you can't just force them to work 80hr weeks. Not in my country anyway.

I don't know where you get this from?

How many people in USA don't think masks work? Especially those that listen to Fox News opinion shows and other right wing media that state this nonsense.
How many people in USA don't think the Covid vaccine works? How many think the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease?
How many think Ivermectine works on Covid? How many think Hydrochloraquine works on Covid?
From reports I have seen, Republicans have been twice as likely to have died from Covid than Democrats, which means that people have certainly died because they received and believed misinformation.


How many people in USA believe that the 2020 election was stolen? How many are outraged by this and violently attacked the Capitol, or are considering taking up arms against the "left"? i.e.
"I mean, literally, where’s the line? How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?" - 'How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?'
I know it is different there. I have family there. Even the 20 year olds get a month of vacation. It's not how life works here. Not to say it is bad, of course.
Musk told them to come back to the office for months, as I recall. The employees - the malcontents - began publicly denouncing their boss. You can't do that here, as virtually all employment is at-will, and it damages the company reputation. You can privately complain to your friends all you want.

Not commenting on the programming, as he understands it, and that is not my wheelhouse.

I believe the "hard work" thing was just to root out the malcontents. He is starting with the best employees that he wants to keep. Twitter is running flawlessly. I don't know. I guess we shall see.

I stand by my comment.

"Misinformation does not lead to deaths. Making the wrong decision for you (whether it's a drug, or just being unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time) leads to death. Hearing all sides of an issue does NOT "lead to death".

Informed consent is a requirement in medical practice. One needs to hear all sides of an issue from informed parties. You would have a point if a subset of doctors and scientists were not silenced, deplatformed, and fired merely for suggesting other treatments were viable (especially early on) to treat the virus. Some had a good deal of success. That's not misinformation. If I tell a child that a plant will grown in his belly if he swallows a seed, THAT is mis or disinformation.
 
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stevil

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Musk told them to come back to the office for months, as I recall.
He hasn't owned the company for months.
You would have a point if a subset of doctors and scientists were not silenced, deplatformed, and fired merely for suggesting other treatments were viable (especially early on) to treat the virus. Some had a good deal of success. That's not misinformation. If I tell a child that a plant will grown in his belly if he swallows a seed, THAT is mis or disinformation.
Doctors, GP's are not experts in everything. They are people too, and some are susceptible to propaganda nonsense.
But general people look up to doctors for their expertise in getting them cured, they need to be able to trust them. When a doctor ventures beyond known science and medical research and goes into woo like recommending acupuncture or Ivermectin for Covid, then they are not practising medicine, and they should be silenced. People need to trust doctors, so the system should be putting in large effort to discipline and shut down doctors that are giving out bad advice.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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He hasn't owned the company for months.

Doctors, GP's are not experts in everything. They are people too, and some are susceptible to propaganda nonsense.
But general people look up to doctors for their expertise in getting them cured, they need to be able to trust them. When a doctor ventures beyond known science and medical research and goes into woo like recommending acupuncture or Ivermectin for Covid, then they are not practising medicine, and they should be silenced. People need to trust doctors, so the system should be putting in large effort to discipline and shut down doctors that are giving out bad advice.
I was inadvertently thinking of Tesla, where Musk told the employees to get back to the office last summer.

You are correct. It is only weeks ago that Musk told the Twitter employees to get back to the office. My apologies. I remember reading it but conflated the companies.


Your statement makes no sense when several doctors of advanced achievements were silenced and fired. It was not just Joe Podunk, talking in his truck, as you seem to think.

Let the lawsuits prevail(though it is hard to prevail against the government collusion).
"Earlier this month, three physicians filed a lawsuit against the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, and FDA Commissioner Robert M. Califf in a Texas court. They allege the FDA acted outside its authority and “illegally interfered with their ability to practice medicine” by discouraging the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19. The physicians are Dr. Robert L. Apter, M.D., Dr. Mary Talley Bowden, M.D. and Dr. Paul E. Marik, MBBCh, MMed.

Bowden is an ear, nose and throat specialist in the Houston area. Marik is an internist and critical care physician board-certified in the U.S., Britain, Canada and South Africa. Apter is licensed to practice medicine in Arkansas and Washington."

But this post was about Twitter, so I guess we have gone afield.
 
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