Turns Out A Lot of Christians Are Against Trump's Pro-Christian Agenda

[Shiloh Raven]

--SE--

There's a reason why these attacks are on the rise: US neo-Nazi groups on the rise under President Donald Trump: report. I've posted several other articles on white supremacists supporting Trump.

 

[Gigimo]

Sounds interesting. Here's the lowdown on the new organization:

‘Christian’ group — and that’s ‘Christian’ in quotes — warns of faith-based nationalism

Am not surprised in the least, some folks never learn.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, we need to teach against it, since it can happen anywhere. Here's something I heard from a close friend at church just recently. He had visited a church because some relative wanted him to go for some reason, and it was large, and at the front of the sanctuary they had hung a gigantic American flag.

And they had hung it *covering up* the cross, so that the cross was only visible as an outline, covered by the flag.

These tendencies, towards tribalism and nationalism, are in human nature, the flesh. As Christians we want to help people escape from the flesh, and instead begin to walk in the Spirit. I'm beginning to think it's good to tell the gospel message over and over to people, in various ways, the amazing love in how Christ has come to rescue us, to save us, from our sins, that He died for us to break the power of sin over us, so that we can escape from the power of of the flesh, and Live in Him.

Years ago I went with my dad to visit a church with him, this was still during my "wilderness" phase, before I had become Lutheran. I don't recall the denomination the church was, it may have been non-denominational. It also so happened that it was 4th of July weekend.

When we showed up the sanctuary had been decked, front to back, with American flags. And in the front of the sanctuary, no cross, just a large, massive flag. I can't recall if the cross had been moved or if the flag was simply covering it, neither scenario is much better than the other.

The opening "hymns" weren't hymns, but instead patriotic songs such as "America the Beautiful". The prayer between singing and the sermon had no mention of Jesus, no mention of the Gospel; only a vague reference to God as in God has blessed America, may God bless America, etc.

I didn't stay for the sermon. This is one of the only times, perhaps the only time, I straight up just left a church in the middle of a service. I was angry, horrified, disgusted.

I waited outside the church, my dad stayed--he didn't see a problem with it. And he didn't understand why it offended me so much.

But it was also important to me. Prior to this I was already at a point where I was uncomfortable with the co-mingling of American nationalism with Christianity. This put me well over the line. This was desecration, idolatry, and grotesquely blasphemous. The whole thing almost seems like it should be a parody of the heresy of intermingling nationalism with religion, but it was very real.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Nithavela]

Years ago I went with my dad to visit a church with him, this was still during my "wilderness" phase, before I had become Lutheran. I don't recall the denomination the church was, it may have been non-denominational. It also so happened that it was 4th of July weekend.

When we showed up the sanctuary had been decked, front to back, with American flags. And in the front of the sanctuary, no cross, just a large, massive flag. I can't recall if the cross had been moved or if the flag was simply covering it, neither scenario is much better than the other.

The opening "hymns" weren't hymns, but instead patriotic songs such as "America the Beautiful". The prayer between singing and the sermon had no mention of Jesus, no mention of the Gospel; only a vague reference to God as in God has blessed America, may God bless America, etc.

I didn't stay for the sermon. This is one of the only times, perhaps the only time, I straight up just left a church in the middle of a service. I was angry, horrified, disgusted.

I waited outside the church, my dad stayed--he didn't see a problem with it. And he didn't understand why it offended me so much.

But it was also important to me. Prior to this I was already at a point where I was uncomfortable with the co-mingling of American nationalism with Christianity. This put me well over the line. This was desecration, idolatry, and grotesquely blasphemous. The whole thing almost seems like it should be a parody of the heresy of intermingling nationalism with religion, but it was very real.

-CryptoLutheran

Christianity is a wonderfull tool for both getting the "right" people into politics and shaming the "wrong" people to silence. There is a cornucopia of quotes for both.

Right and wrong of course change according to the doctrine of the current ruler, as well as the color of their ties.

 

[Halbhh]

Years ago I went with my dad to visit a church with him, this was still during my "wilderness" phase, before I had become Lutheran. I don't recall the denomination the church was, it may have been non-denominational. It also so happened that it was 4th of July weekend.

When we showed up the sanctuary had been decked, front to back, with American flags. And in the front of the sanctuary, no cross, just a large, massive flag. I can't recall if the cross had been moved or if the flag was simply covering it, neither scenario is much better than the other.

The opening "hymns" weren't hymns, but instead patriotic songs such as "America the Beautiful". The prayer between singing and the sermon had no mention of Jesus, no mention of the Gospel; only a vague reference to God as in God has blessed America, may God bless America, etc.

I didn't stay for the sermon. This is one of the only times, perhaps the only time, I straight up just left a church in the middle of a service. I was angry, horrified, disgusted.

I waited outside the church, my dad stayed--he didn't see a problem with it. And he didn't understand why it offended me so much.

But it was also important to me. Prior to this I was already at a point where I was uncomfortable with the co-mingling of American nationalism with Christianity. This put me well over the line. This was desecration, idolatry, and grotesquely blasphemous. The whole thing almost seems like it should be a parody of the heresy of intermingling nationalism with religion, but it was very real.

-CryptoLutheran

Wow. Yeah. That's fitting what my friend experienced. This isn't just one church somewhere, but it's some kind of movement, and it seems very much like a competing religion to me. If flag comes first, then God 2nd (or worse). My own wondering: do they even believe? I mean, in a poll they would say "yes" if faced with a yes/no. But what is "God" to them -- do they really believe Christ rose?

 

[Halbhh]

Christianity is a wonderfull tool for both getting the "right" people into politics and shaming the "wrong" people to silence. There is a cornucopia of quotes for both.

Right and wrong of course change according to the doctrine of the current ruler, as well as the color of their ties.

If by "Christianity" you meant instead what is in the New Testament, then the objective, realistic overview would instead be: Christianity is a powerful force to bring in all repentant sinners (and all are equally sinners in need of Grace), and to break the bonds of the oppressed, and lift up the weak and disadvantaged, and make us treat the marginalized and poor as our total equals.

So, quite a contrast between what you are seeing, and what's in the New Testament.

Now, the majority of Christians are not involved in politics vocally to the level of endorsing candidates as the choice of their church, and lately the voices that do that are mostly the Christian Nationalists, which seems in many ways to be a different religion than what is actually in the New Testament. A competing religion wanting the legitimacy of being called 'Christian'.

 

[Albion]

When it comes to a non-denominational congregation, there's no telling what to expect, but on the other hand, this sort of thing is not common.

 

[Halbhh]

I came here to make the same comment.

All sorts of groups could want to claim the label 'Christian' because it has legitimacy, because of Jesus's actions and words.

Doesn't it make sense though to you, with radically unalike groups using the label, that the only good definition of what is "Christian" then would be...what Christ said.

"Christian" being what "Christ" says, His instructions, and the way of life that result -- that's how I think of it, so that the word retains a definite meaning, instead of having opposite meanings here and there, depending on the person and moment.

Consider if a group wanted to claim the label "American Values Party" and that they want us all to do things the "American Way"...but, most of their positions directly contradicted the U.S. Constitution.

Would you think then that "American Way" is...this new version, largely opposite of the Constitution?

No, you'd stick to "American Way" meaning pretty much the way aligned with the constitution, instead of the radical new thing.

 

[Albion]

Right and wrong of course change according to the doctrine of the current ruler, as well as the color of their ties.

Is that some kind of a Nehru jacket that she wears (and has come to be identified with)??

 

[iluvatar5150]

When it comes to a non-denominational congregation, there's no telling what to expect, but on the other hand, this sort of thing is not common.

That's not been my experience at all. Sure, there are varying degrees to which this happens, but IME, there are tons of churches guilty of some degree of conflating nationalism with Christianity. It's sort of endemic among farther right evangelical churches, particularly out in talk radio country.

 

[Halbhh]

Consider if a group wanted to claim the label "American Values Party" and that they want us all -- the nation -- to change and do things the "American Way" as they tell of it...but, most of their positions directly contradicted the U.S. Constitution.

Would you think then the "American Way" is...this version from this group, even if it's largely opposite of the Constitution?

No, you'd stick to "American Way" meaning pretty much the way aligned with the Constitution, instead of the 'American Way' that group is trying to define.

 

[Nithavela]

If by "Christianity" you meant instead what is in the New Testament, then the objective, realistic overview would instead be: Christianity is a powerful force to bring in all repentant sinners (and all are equally sinners in need of Grace), and to break the bonds of the oppressed, and lift up the weak and disadvantaged, and make us treat the marginalized and poor as our total equals.

So, quite a contrast between what you are seeing, and what's in the New Testament.

Now, the majority of Christians are not involved in politics vocally to the level of endorsing candidates as the choice of their church, and lately the voices that do that are mostly the Christian Nationalists, which seems in many ways to be a different religion than what is actually in the New Testament. A competing religion wanting the legitimacy of being called 'Christian'.

Oh, I agree. If everyone would follow the lofty ideals of your religion, the world would be a better place.

That holds true for most religions, be they true or not.

But the fact is that it only takes a little bit of effort to turn everything a religion stands for onto its head and use it as a tool of control, like it has been done for millenia.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Turns Out A Lot of Christians Are Against Trump's Pro-Christian Agenda

Since his presidential campaign, many have blamed the newfound popularity of Christian Nationalism on Donald Trump, based on his history targeting minority faith groups. In 2015, then-candidate Trump said, if elected, he would implement a database to track Muslims in the U.S., and did not rule out giving Muslims an ID noting their religion. Later, he successfully implemented a ban on citizens from several Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. In 2017, he said that “some very fine people” were part of a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville during which they chanted “Jews will not replace us.” His administration has also been a major supporter of anti-abortion legislation that attempts to implement reproductive laws based on Christian beliefs.

 

[super animator]

Sounds interesting. Here's the lowdown on the new organization:

‘Christian’ group — and that’s ‘Christian’ in quotes — warns of faith-based nationalism

Ah yes, the no true Scotsman fallacy.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

That's very encouraging! So, where do I sign up to join? I was saying the other day on this site that I wish more Christians would raise their political voice and take a united stand against Trump.

People will vote in another President soon; that is how we speak. As for now, Christians (Staff Edit) follow scripture:

1 Tim 2:1-2: I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

1 Peter 2:17: Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king. (Leader, Ruler, Emperor - whatever the leader is called).

Romans 13:1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

2 Chronicles 7:14:
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Proverbs 21:1: The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will.

Yep - that means Obama, whether you liked him or not. Carter, whether you liked him or not. Trump, whether you like him or not. Whoever comes next, no matter how good or awful - we deal. And pray.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Turns Out A Lot of Christians Are Against Trump's Pro-Christian Agenda


View attachment 260484

That photo is embarrassing, no matter which President you are hoping will die. Christians are better than this.

 

[Tinker Grey]

That photo is embarrassing, no matter which President you are hoping will die. Christians are better than this.

Of course, it started ealier. A Republican senator just prayed that Obama’s "days be few." This is how the GOP got Trump.

 

[St. Helens]

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[SoldierOfTheKing]

Restricting immigration from Islamic countries isn't about Christianity in particular. It's about the security of Americans of all religious persuasions, and none at all. It's isn't just Christians that Muslims tend to come into conflict with.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Of course, it started ealier. A Republican senator just prayed that Obama’s "days be few." This is how the GOP got Trump.

And after the "May his days be few" with Barack Obama, we're now back to the Bible verses of God ordaining national leaders and obeying government authorities since Donald Trump was elected.