1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Turns Out A Lot of Christians Are Against Trump's Pro-Christian Agenda

Discussion in 'News & Current Events (Articles Required)' started by Go Braves, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. Go Braves

    Go Braves I miss Senator McCain

    +8,901
    United States
    Catholic
    In Relationship
    US-Republican
    Turns Out a Lot of Christians Are Against Trump's Pro-Christian Agenda
    A new group called Christians Against Christian Nationalism has formed in the U.S. to fight for the rights of other religions.

     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,930
    Anabaptist
    According to all Scripture, whether any other religion has any rights under the world government in existence doesn't matter. They all perish eternally unless they repent. Since no world government is a Theocracy(or whatever term could be used to indicate Yahuweh in charge, as in Israel before they sinned like all the pagan nations and asked for a King) .... well, does that make a difference? (in that the whole world is doomed)
     
  3. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +12,208
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    Speaking personally, I'm not against any man, but I am against any agenda that seeks to co-opt my religion (even if just in name) in order to implement things that do not actually come from the Church our its holy faith, but instead from the political calculations of a man and his team. In Egypt, Christians are among those who have fought the loudest to have religion removed from the compulsory national ID cards, as it is used as the basis for discrimination both officially and unofficially against Christians, Baha'i, Atheists, and others who are not of the Sunni Muslim majority. So why the heck would we then support someone who has the same stupid idea that is being fought against in the Muslim world, for the sake of everyone's rights?

    Given that, I likewise wouldn't need to form or join such a group as described in the OP. This is how we already operate as a Church and a people, and frankly I'm disgusted in every way to see Christianity tied to something as violent and terrible as the shooting of the mosque in New Zealand. Again, this is exactly the kind of behavior we are trying to stop in the Middle East/North Africa region. We don't want it to start up again in the 'lands of immigration'. Why else do you think the Middle Eastern/North African Christians came to the West? To live peacefully, in places without the sectarianism and violence that characterized their lives in their homelands. Don't bring that here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. Go Braves

    Go Braves I miss Senator McCain

    +8,901
    United States
    Catholic
    In Relationship
    US-Republican
    The article in the OP is currently trending on Reddit, in multiple sections. This organization has given folks some hope about Christianity in America, so that's a positive.

    I won't post the link on account of how I'm sure if you stroll through that huge number of comments, somebody has said something that's not allowable on here. But if y'all use Reddit, you can look it up in the politics section. It's got about 45,000 upvotes there right now. The top few comments have scripture.

    This is all from one of the top posts, in support of the group against Christian nationalism:

    Leviticus 25:35 If any of your people become poor and unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner or stranger, so they may continue to live among you.

    Proverbs 11:24 One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want.

    Proverbs 13:11 Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow.

    Proverbs 15:27 Whoever is greedy for unjust gain troubles his own household, but he who hates bribes will live.

    Proverbs 17:5 He who mocks the poor taunts his Maker; He who rejoices at misfortune will not go unpunished

    Proverbs 22:22-23 Do not exploit the poor because they are poor, or crush the needy in court, for the Lord will plead their case, and exact life for life.

    Proverbs 22:16 Whoever oppresses the poor for his own gain and whoever gives to the rich, both come to poverty.

    Proverbs 22:26–27 Do not be one of those who shakes hands in a pledge, one of those who is surety for debts; if you have nothing with which to pay, why should he take away your bed from under you?

    Proverbs 28:25-28 A greedy man stirs up strife, but the one who trusts in the Lord will be enriched. Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered. Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.

    Proverbs 29:7 A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.

    Psalm 62:10 Put no trust in extortion; set no vain hopes on robbery; if riches increase, set not your heart on them.

    Psalm 82:3-4 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the poor and afflicted. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

    Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do good; seek justice, fight oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

    Isaiah 10:1-2 Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless.

    Isaiah 56:11 The dogs have a mighty appetite; they never have enough. But they are shepherds who have no understanding; they have all turned to their own way, each to his own gain, one and all.

    Isaiah 58: 6-7 Is this not a better fast, to loose the chains of injustice and untie the burden, to free the oppressed and break every yoke? Or to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—to clothe the naked, and not to turn your eyes away from your brother?

    Isaiah 58:10 If you break the yoke of oppression, end the finger-pointing and malicious talk, and work to feed the hungry and fight for the oppressed, your light will rise in the darkness; your night will be like the midday sun.

    Ezekiel 16:49 Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and apathetic; they did not help the poor and needy.

    Ecclesiastes 5:10-14 Whoever loves money never has enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income. This too is meaningless. As riches increase, so do those who covet them. Of what benefit are they to the owners except to feast their eyes on them?

    Zechariah 7:9-11 This is what the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other.’

    Jeremiah 22:3 Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the resident alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood here.

    Jeremiah 22:13 Woe to him who builds his house without righteousness, and his upper rooms without justice, who makes his neighbor work for nothing and refuses to pay his wages.

    Jeremiah 5:26-29 For scoundrels are found among my people; they devour the goods of others. Like fowlers, they set traps to catch men. Like a cage full of birds, their houses are full of lies; therefore they have become great and rich, fat and sleek. They are boundless in evil; they judge without justice the cause of the orphan, to make it prosper, and they do not defend the rights of the needy. Shall I not punish them for this? says the Lord. ‘Shall I not avenge myself on such a nation?”

    Malachi 3:5-6 "I will be quick to denounce sorcerers, adulterers, and perjurers, and those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.

    Amos 2: 6-7 “For three sins of Israel, even for four, I will not relent. They sell the innocent for silver, and the needy for a pair of sandals. They trample on the heads of the poor as on the dust of the ground and deny justice to the oppressed.”

    Matthew 5:42 “Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.”

    Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

    Matthew 13:22 “As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the lure of riches choke the word, and it yields nothing.”

    Matthew 19:21 “If you want to be perfect, go and sell your belongings and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.”

    Mark 8:36 “What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?”

    Luke 3:11 “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

    Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and restore sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

    Luke 12:15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

    Luke 12:48 “To whom much is given, much will be expected; and from whom much has been entrusted, much more will be asked.”

    Acts 8:20 May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!

    Acts 20:35 “In all I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words of Lord Jesus himself: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

    1 Timothy 6:17-19 Command those who are currently rich not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is fleeting, but in God, who richly provides for us. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will save up treasure for the coming age, so that they may have life that is truly life.

    1 Timothy 6:9 But those who desire wealth fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

    Philippians 2:3-4 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, value others above yourself in humility, looking out not for just yourselves, but each of you for the good of others.

    2 Corinthians 8:13-15 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you work hard, but that there might be equality. At this time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”

    James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and well-fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

    James 5:4-6 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

    1 John 3:17-18 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
     
  5. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven Well-Known Member

    +11,252
    United States
    Christian
    Married
  6. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +8,348
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Well, we need to teach against it, since it can happen anywhere. Here's something I heard from a close friend at church just recently. He had visited a church because some relative wanted him to go for some reason, and it was large, and at the front of the sanctuary they had hung a gigantic American flag.

    And they had hung it *covering up* the cross, so that the cross was only visible as an outline, covered by the flag.

    These tendencies, towards tribalism and nationalism, are in human nature, the flesh. As Christians we want to help people escape from the flesh, and instead begin to walk in the Spirit. I'm beginning to think it's good to tell the gospel message over and over to people, in various ways, the amazing love in how Christ has come to rescue us, to save us, from our sins, that He died for us to break the power of sin over us, so that we can escape from the power of of the flesh, and Live in Him.
     
  7. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

    +20,521
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
    I see loads of churches putting both the American and Christian flag up on the stage, with the American flag stage right and the Christian flag stage left. According to US flag code, the US flag goes furthest stage right because the code considers that the place of highest honor. The exception in the code is that Naval chaplains are allowed to fly church flags to the right when conducting services at sea. But many churches seem perfectly okay with that sort of prioritization.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  8. bèlla

    bèlla ❤️ Supporter

    +16,582
    United States
    Non-Denom
    In Relationship
    I would never join this. You have no idea who’s behind it or how the information would be used.
     
  9. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +12,208
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    It's not too difficult to find national flags in the various patriarchal residences around the world, particularly in places where Christians are a vulnerable minority like in the Middle East. It is part of paying respect to places where you have a flock who have probably recently been through war and displacement, as is the case with the recently-established Patriarchal residence of the Syriac Orthodox Church in Lebanon (the Patriarchate itself remains in Damascus). This is not to be confused with the kind of thing that you saw, though. We would never, ever cover the cross with any national flag of any kind, and who does so would be severely reprimanded.

    [​IMG]
    Preparation for a statement to be issued to Syriac Orthodox media around the world from the Patriarchal residence in Lebanon. Note the Lebanese flag alongside the Syriac Orthodox one (which is not a "national" flag to begin with, so much as the traditional seal of the Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate put on a flag), and the holy cross (in the pan-Syrian style, with the twelve blooms around it representing the apostles) properly placed above both of them, and the episcopal thrones, and everything.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +32,319
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
  11. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven Well-Known Member

    +11,252
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I've seen the American flag displayed at evangelical oriented churches as well. The church my family and I have attended for years displayed two American flags at each side of the entrance to the church.

    I didn't think the display was appropriate, so I requested a private meeting with the pastor and the church board. I calmly presented my case for objecting to the American flags being displayed to the pastor and the board members. After hearing what I had to say, they all agreed to remove the flags. The pastor and board members said my attitude was respectful and my case was well presented.
     
  12. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

    +17,461
    United States
    Other Religion
    Married
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  13. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

    +8,348
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I see. That's not disturbing. It's not covering up the cross.
     
  14. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven Well-Known Member

    +11,252
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    It is very wise to properly research an activist group before joining it first. I've been a political activist long enough to know not to join some activist group without thoroughly researching it for myself.
     
  15. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven Well-Known Member

    +11,252
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    It took longer than I expected to, but I was expecting some kind of response like that.
     
  16. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven Well-Known Member

    +11,252
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I would expect such a biased and scathing article in response to this Christian group from its author, Cheryl K. Chumley since she's a conservative online opinion editor. Upon reviewing some of her other articles online, I found her previous articles where she called some of her fellow conservatives 'fake conservatives' and she called the late Senator John McCain a 'traitor.' I'm not quite sure she actually knows the real history of America if she believes America was originally founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. Maybe she forgot about the massive land theft, forced NDN removals, and legalized slavery.

    According to her article, she seems to have a personal problem with LGBT rights and the Christians who support LGBT people. I'm not sure why she or her personal angry opinions that she spews in her article about this Christian group and against liberals should be taken even remotely seriously.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • List
  17. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

    +12,208
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    Yeah. I think the key is maybe (and this is me guessing as an outsider, based on my interactions with people from all over the Middle East as a convert to one of their churches) that nationalism works differently or interacts differently with religious identity in different places. In America and probably the broader West, we are rightly suspicious of people who come to us with a Bible in one hand and an American flag in the other, due to the history we've had with mixing religion and government, which hasn't really turned out good for anyone (it tends to corrupt both, and cause misery for those upon whom government force is placed by the supposed 'will of God' in the form of some guy or a lot of guys who show up looking to take all their land and stuff).

    Whereas in other parts of the world, it is seen as a triumph for the unity of the country (Christians and non-Christians) that the Christian minorities would be seen as integrated enough into the society to openly display their symbols and declare their faith without fear, because in the past their faith was used against them to oppress them. So in a weird way, in places like Egypt or Sudan or Eritrea (places with very well-defined social and legal boundaries between religious communities), to see the cross placed together with the national flag or even in another more specifically political symbol is a good sign, because it means integration and harmony and a lack of sectarianism, even if that's more the ideal than the reality at any given time.

    Hence it could be seen as a good thing that the symbol of Egypt's nationalist Wafd Party (a major political party behind the revolution of 1919 and the subsequent drafting of the Egyptian constitution of 1923) was a combination of Christian and Muslim symbols:

    [​IMG]

    In fact, it is often the case in countries with the appropriate religious demographics that the Christians and Muslims be appealed to as distinct communities in the name of unifying against some outside force, which necessarily places the Christians in a role as political actors -- something which our religion is perhaps less well-suited to than others', but which has still been seen as essential to the liberation movements of those countries, like in Eritrea. Eritrea may not have been officially independent until the 1990s, but as this song from the 1960s shows, they've been very cognizant of the religious divide of their country (roughly 50/50 Christian/Muslim), which is a lot easier to appeal to than other types of divides (there are more languages and ethnic groups than religions in the country, after all, and pretty much everyone is either one religion or the other):


    Ateweberhan Segid (famous Eritrean singer) sings "Aslamay, Kristanay" (Muslims, Christians)

    "Aslamay, Kristanay, Wedi Kolla Dega, Ne Mihri Wetsa'i ayte habo Waga. Ayte habo waga, keyt'e khun idaga!" (Muslims, Christians, high & low land citizens, don't give value to the teachings of the foreigners or you'll be up for sale!)

    Is this bad because it creates a kind of 'Christian nationalism', i.e., appeals to Christians as Christians in a political context? I don't think so, since it's not for the purpose of "unite against the other half of the country that doesn't believe as you do!" or whatever. It's for the unity of Eritreans across religious lines, but in other societies that is not accomplished by pretending that those lines aren't there, or that they don't matter. Of course they do. But they don't have to be something exclusionary or hateful.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  18. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

    +17,461
    United States
    Other Religion
    Married
    One would not take such nonsense seriously in ordinary times, but her opinions are widespread in Trump's base of supporters.
     
  19. Shiloh Raven

    Shiloh Raven Well-Known Member

    +11,252
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The fact that she's an obvious Trump supporter is another reason why I don't take her seriously, tbh.
     
  20. iluvatar5150

    iluvatar5150 Well-Known Member

    +20,521
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Democrat
Loading...