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Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Nithavela, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Germany has "greater power over Europe" only because Germany, at least West Getmany, got off easy after World War II. Germany was never required to pay more than a fraction of the costs for the deaths and damages that it caused during the war.
     
  2. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Assad used gas against civilians. Don't try to tell me that he isn't a terrorist.
     
  3. wing2000

    wing2000 E pluribus unum Supporter

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    For example?

    WHat has Russian done against ISIS forces in Syria specifically? The Russian jets were not bombing ISIS targets near the Turkey border.

    Has Russia deployed any Russian troops to take back and hold territory held by ISIS?

    Really? The situation on the ground is far more complex than you let on....
     
  4. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Dont blame me for your mistakes. :)

    You needed us :)
     
  5. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I don't recall ever blaming you for anything. I just pointed out a simple fact.
     
  6. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    totally fine. And we used our cards greatly and build up an empire without one shot fired. ;)
     
  7. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I am convinced that you are a troll so it really isn't worth continuing this discussion. According to you the US is always in the wrong--we are responsible for both Hitler and ISIS--while the Germans--the wonderful people who murdered Anne Frank and millions of others--aren't at fault for anything. Now you say that Germany is building a new empire. I'm sure your fellow Europeans would disagree that Germany is the rightful leader of Europe. End of discussion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  8. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I´m not a troll. And no, i don´t think the USA is always wrong. I see the USA as natural rival of my nation. Sometimes usefull and sometimes not. The art is to push USA under the train when they aren´t helpful.

    You aren´t responsible for Hitler, you simply supported him.

    That you are responsible for ISIS is a historical fact. You attacked iraq, then left with a vacuum, allowing terrorists to grow and later funded them to fight Assad in Syria. I would be perfectly fine with Assad and Saddam still in power.

    I don´t care about Anne Frank. Not any more than you care about Pocahontas and all the wonderful people your nation murdered.

    It doesn´t matter what my "fellow europeans" thing, agree or disagree with. Their opinion is irrelevant. They follow our orders and thats what matters.

    You can read it in the new statesment.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...h-ruins-war-how-new-european-empire-was-built

    Germany’s triumph: from the ruins of war, how a new European empire was built
    European integration was designed to contain Berlin’s power – instead, it has increased it.


    I´m proud for that. What you think or believe is totally irrelevant for me.

    Look basic fact is, that large parts of europeans live in misery, while we germans dictate them evrything and funnel the whealth to germany through the €-System. We profit from their misery. The worse they are, the betetr we get.

    I´m a trainee and can afford holidays at Mauritius and Seychelles. Next year visiting Chile. That would have been impossible for the generation of my parents.

    And its this what counts. Evrything else is totally irrelevant.

    P.s.: Don´t bore me with Anne Frank or this nonsense. That happened a million years ago and my personal compassion regarding this is near to zero. I feel nothing when seeing an concentration camp and this won´t change anytime soon.
     
  9. PapaZoom

    PapaZoom Well-Known Member

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    :doh:
     
  10. LoveBeingAMuslimah

    LoveBeingAMuslimah Newbie

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    "Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, speaking at a dinner for foreign ambassadors Thursday, said Turkey had deported more than 1,300 Syria-bound foreigners suspected of links to ISIS, according to an Anadolu report."

    Turkey arrests 21 suspected ISIS members, 3 of them foreigners

    They're doing a pretty bad job aiding, abetting, and supporting ISIS.

    What is this job? Targeting ISIS?

    Last June, the U.S. embassy in Damascus accused Bashar al-Assad’s air force of clearing a path for an ISIS advance on Syrian rebels in the Aleppo town of Azaz. “Reports indicate that the regime is making air strikes in support of [ISIS’s] advance on Aleppo, aiding extremists against Syrian population,” the embassy account tweeted, following up with a broader accusation: “We have long seen that the regime avoids [ISIS] lines, in complete contradiction to the regime’s claims to be fighting [ISIS].”

    Russia seems to have inherited Assad’s role as the unacknowledged air force of ISIS.

    "John Schindler, a former U.S. intelligence analyst and occasional Daily Beast contributor," said, "Joint operations with ISIS are to be expected, some with intent, some by default, and should not surprise given the extent of regime intelligence penetration of [ISIS].”


    Russia’s Giving ISIS An Air Force

    A man who gets election results like 99.7% (lol) in a majority Sunni country that has been oppressed by the Alawite dictatorship blesses Russia's involvement in Syria. I don't see why this should hold any weight for the majority of Syrians (i.e. the ones who belong to a group that are being targeted).

    Perhaps they're anti-Assad because he's a genocidal dictator whose regime and allies have killed ~200,000 Sunnis civilians.

    errrr. Not quite sure what to say to this except I'm sure the majority of Syrians (including refugees) would disagree with you. They can hate both without being accused of allying with the other.

    "Isil fighters captured the oilfields of eastern Syria in 2013. Since then, the regime is believed to have funded the jihadists by purchasing oil from Isil. But those links are understood to extend further than was previously thought. Instead of merely being a customer for Isil's oil, the regime is understood to be running some oil and gas installations jointly with the terrorist movement."

    Oil middleman between Syria and Isil is new target for EU sanctions

    Only a blind Assad sympathizer can't see that the Syrian regime is wrong in this?
     
  11. Oafman

    Oafman Try telling that to these bog brained murphys

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    So, why then was Turkey anti-Assad before ISIS existed? You haven't thought this through
     
  12. ArmenianJohn

    ArmenianJohn Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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    Turkey is anti- any powerful nation that neighbors them and Syria - Assad - was one of them. So was Iraq prior to the US dismantling it and killing Saddam Hussein.

    No, I didn't "think this through" because there's nothing to think through, it's what I've known all along because I have familiarity with that region and its peoples and history. I don't think it through any more than I think through American history or political events that I already know.
     
  13. Oafman

    Oafman Try telling that to these bog brained murphys

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    The point is that you have your order wrong. Turkey is not anti-Assad because it is pro-ISIS. Turkey provides support to ISIS because it is anti-Assad. It's an important distinction because it explains that Turkey's support of ISIS is not ideological, it's cold hard pragmatism, of the most cynical kind. They want Assad out at any cost.
     
  14. LoveBeingAMuslimah

    LoveBeingAMuslimah Newbie

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    Proof of them providing support to ISIS?
     
  15. Oafman

    Oafman Try telling that to these bog brained murphys

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    Refusal to assist in Kobane, and more importantly, in Jarablus, where Erdogan's 'red line' prevented the YPG from capturing it from IS, and denying them their main border crossing to Turkey, and supply lines for arms and recruits. Link

    The Turkish air force consistently pins down Kurdish fighters in north east Syria. This isn't just their general oppression of Kurds, it's a deliberate attempt to hamper IS's opponents. Link

    The MIT agents caught delivering arms and ammo to IS. Turkey said it was humanitarian supplies for the Turkmen, but the Turkmen said no such supplies had been delivered: link

    It's widely accepted that the MIT have at least allowed IS oil sales to cross the Turkish border, if not actively bought it themselves: Link

    I'm sorry I don't have more time to add meat to this, but the evidence against Turkey is stacking up, and looks compelling. I was cynical at first, but have been convinced otherwise.
     
  16. LoveBeingAMuslimah

    LoveBeingAMuslimah Newbie

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    Snipping your post for brevity. None of that proves they're aiding ISIS. They support the rebel groups that are actively fighting against ISIS. Fighting against armed Kurds or not wanting them to cross over into Turkey does not mean they are supporting ISIS. They also actively target ISIS (which makes even more sense considering the attack in Turkey by ISIS): "But the Turks have made clear to us they are all in on this effort. They have been, I think, from the moment that we opened the Incirlik Air Base agreement and started flying out of there. And one thing you can look at is that the Turks are flying F-16s and doing bombing runs against ISIL in this Mar’a line area regularly, consistently now." Coalition Efforts Against ISIL

    Regarding the armed trucks going into Syria for shipment to ISIS, that's a claim by someone who comes from an opposing party. Unless there is evidence to back his claim up, it remains just that.

    As for the oil, Kurds have bought oil from ISIS. Does this make them (or the Iraqi government) supporters of ISIS in your eyes? "From early July until late October, most of this oil went to Iraqi Kurdistan. The self-proclaimed Islamic caliphate sold oil to Kurdish traders at a major discount. From Kurdistan, the oil was resold to Turkish and Iranian traders." Inside Islamic State’s oil empire: how captured oilfields fuel Isis insurgency

    Turkey has also intercepted smuggled oil: "In an emailed statement, officials with the Turkish energy ministry....In the first seven months of this year, it said, Turkish authorities had intercepted 5.3 million gallons of smuggled oil along the Syrian and Iraqi borders — a nearly 400% increase from the same period in the previous year. Between Sept. 5–11 alone, it added, Turkish authorities intercepted 3,318 gallons of illicit oil and 7,546 feet of pipe used for smuggling it." This Is How ISIS Smuggles Oil
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  17. Nithavela

    Nithavela lologist

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    I bet.
     
  18. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    You sure do. Btw did you ever see anyone cry at the collosseum? Or at Maya ruins? Nope. Same thing. I wasn´t there. I don´t know said person not personal so any shown "sadness" is pure for show and memoria folcloristic.

    I visited Buchenwald. I was as touched as i was at the local bus station.
     
  19. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    I mean this with all due respect, it is a serious question from sincere concern, has anyone ever suggested psychiatric assessment? Your lack of empathy seems almost pathological.
     
  20. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I have empathy. For my people, people i personal know and i can ditinguish between good and bad morals. If you mean by empathy that i throw myself into the mud and cry how bad evrything was and insult my own ancestors, then no. I recognize the holocaust as a rather negative event in history just like any other genocide. Be it armenia, australian aboriginals, tasmanians or american natives.
     
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