Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border

[Vylo]

This is one of the few ways I saw WW3 breaking out. Thankfully Russia and Turkey are meeting in person soon, so hopefully things can get smoothed over.

 

[Aldebaran]

This is one of the few ways I saw WW3 breaking out. Thankfully Russia and Turkey are meeting in person soon, so hopefully things can get smoothed over.

Glenn Beck said the same thing. With so many countries who aren't exactly friendly with each other fighting in the same arena, there are bound to be problems that will only widen the conflict. Now, imagine if a Russian plane downs a US plane, or vice versa. Maybe a Russian cruise missile goes off course and hits an American base.

 

[Vylo]

Glenn Beck said the same thing. With so many countries who aren't exactly friendly with each other fighting in the same arena, there are bound to be problems that will only widen the conflict. Now, imagine if a Russian plane downs a US plane, or vice versa. Maybe a Russian cruise missile goes off course and hits an American base.

If the US and NATO call the bluff and back Turkey, which it looks like we are, Putin is in hot water. He can do nothing and look weak, or risk starting a world war. Neither are good options for him. Have to see how good his political gymnastics are. Fortunately for him, everyone has some vested interest in helping him maintain his tough guy image rather than risk a third world war.

 

[Aldebaran]

If the US and NATO call the bluff and back Turkey, which it looks like we are, Putin is in hot water. He can do nothing and look weak, or risk starting a world war. Neither are good options for him. Have to see how good his political gymnastics are. Fortunately for him, everyone has some vested interest in helping him maintain his tough guy image rather than risk a third world war.

Oh great! I guess things are even worse than we thought! Everyone wants to flex their muscles and nobody is backing down, although it would probably be Obama that would do that first. He's bluffed before in that region, and I'm sure Russia and anyone else on the other side would love to call his bluff again.

 

[Vylo]

Oh great! I guess things are even worse than we thought! Everyone wants to flex their muscles and nobody is backing down, although it would probably be Obama that would do that first. He's bluffed before in that region, and I'm sure Russia and anyone else on the other side would love to call his bluff again.

We won't want to back down because that could fracture NATO, which is what Putin wants. Those planes weren't violating Turkish air space by accident. He was looking for a wedge. They know Erdogan isn't exactly our favorite person, or the most stable, so they immediately attacked him as "unstable" and "crazy" after the incident, hoping NATO would bite. While many from the NATO side seemed to echo the "unstable" comments, they still backed Turkey, because that's how NATO do. Now Erdogan is also in hot water, he has to find a way to kiss behind and let Putin maintain a tough image, while still maintaining his own.

It's all a very lovely web that could collapse and murder millions at any moment. Sleep well .

 

[wing2000]

Timeline since Sept 30th when Russian Air operations began over Syria (...and Turkey at times)

http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/e...-Since-the-Start-of-the-Russian-Air-Campaign/

 

[PatrickT]

Your anti-American attitude is well-noted.
I hope you remember a time not too long ago when Germany a place known for doing some things that America had to come there to stop. Some guy named Adolph was in charge there at that time. It was your people who elected him: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/adolf-hitler-becomes-president-of-germany

1. How can i remember when i as born decades later?

2. Who is Adolph?

3. Hitler never was "president" of germany. He was chancellor.

4. Hitler was supported by US corporations and was actively brought into power.

Maybe because of that we have a better sense for imperialism and facism and see it in USA evrywhere.

 

[PatrickT]

We won't want to back down because that could fracture NATO, which is what Putin wants. Those planes weren't violating Turkish air space by accident. He was looking for a wedge. They know Erdogan isn't exactly our favorite person, or the most stable, so they immediately attacked him as "unstable" and "crazy" after the incident, hoping NATO would bite. While many from the NATO side seemed to echo the "unstable" comments, they still backed Turkey, because that's how NATO do. Now Erdogan is also in hot water, he has to find a way to kiss behind and let Putin maintain a tough image, while still maintaining his own.

It's all a very lovely web that could collapse and murder millions at any moment. Sleep well .

I dont see why we are still in NATO at all. It only pushs our nation in comflicts we habe nothing to do with.

 

[RDKirk]

Pakistan was not as radicalised as IS. Partition would grant sovereign status to the Caliphate of death and demons. Millions of people were displaced and many died in Indias partition. There were several wars between the states. One half of Syria would be under Assad and the other radicalised Sunnis who will support whatever nutjob Islamist death cult is on top this year. Better to have the West dominate the East and put a lid on it. Time to end the chaos.

In Iraq however giving the Kurds their own state seems a good idea. But not sure how the Sunni bit should be handled.

You speak as if the West actually has the decisive word in that. The region is beyond domination by the West.

 

[RDKirk]

If the US and NATO call the bluff and back Turkey, which it looks like we are, Putin is in hot water. He can do nothing and look weak, or risk starting a world war. Neither are good options for him. Have to see how good his political gymnastics are. Fortunately for him, everyone has some vested interest in helping him maintain his tough guy image rather than risk a third world war.

NATO has already chided Turkey for being rash. They're not going to allow Russia to do anything drastic, but neither will NATO give Turkey full justification.

 

[mindlight]

You speak as if the West actually has the decisive word in that. The region is beyond domination by the West.

Sorry- West of Syria dominate East of Syria - should have been clearer.

My point was partition might work for the Kurds but it is doubtful it would work out for Sunni Iraq and East Syria in the current setup

 

[IceJad]

Let face the reality both Turkey and Russia are to blame. Russia for briefly intruding the Turks airspace and Turkey being trigger happy mostly likely because Russia is targeting their proxy.

Both of these country have not been the best of example of being diplomatic. Too much pride too much ego. Turkey looks at herself as defender of Turks and Sunni Islam in broader. And Russia the Slavs/Serbs and eastern Christendom.

If I was turkey I would have sent jets to intercept and escort the Russian out of my borders regardless how many intrusions. And leave the finger pointing in the UN meeting or just call Putin over the phone.

Tit and tat. An eye for an eye. This will sooner lead the region to war than solve anything.

 

[Archivist]

Hitler was supported by US corporations and was actively brought into power.

So the US was responsible for Hitler coming to power, not the Grrman people. Right.

 

[Armoured]

So the US was responsible for Hitler coming to power, not the Grrman people. Right.

Of course. Haven't you worked that poster out yet? If bad-blame America, if good-credit Germany. Hitler was bad, therefore, blame America.

 

[Nithavela]

He's pretty close to failing the Turing test.

 

[Armoured]

He's pretty close to failing the Turing test.

Not as bad as Gottservant, but close.

 

[PatrickT]

So the US was responsible for Hitler coming to power, not the Grrman people. Right.

Yes. Without the treaty of versailes, germany would not be humilated for so many years. Even then Hitler had no chance and lost several elections. He got millions from US corporations then. His largest supporters were Ford, Dow Chemical, IBM. He also got massive funds and election support from popular americans like Charles Lindbergh.

Even with that he only managed to get 18% of the german population to vote for him. He profited massive because so many germans didn´t go voting at all.

There is a famous satirical picture from this time, that shows how Hitler won the election. Its labbeled "Millions stand behind me".

So you might understand why it sounds so funny when a german is confronted about Hitler from an american. Hitler was your wish candidate. Hitler not only got the funds from USA, but also his ideology. Eugentics, euthanasia and all this was a concept made from american philosophers. Even his greeting was something he copied from your cheerleaders.

Funny fact, the Holocaust would never be that efficient if IBM would not have supported it so hard. All this data was processed by advanced Hollerith machines. IBM even send staff to the camps to keep the system in perfect condition.

 

[RDKirk]

Sorry- West of Syria dominate East of Syria - should have been clearer.

My point was partition might work for the Kurds but it is doubtful it would work out for Sunni Iraq and East Syria in the current setup

Well, a partition would not be the "current set up," rather by definition. As I did say, it would result in a rather horrendous loss of lives.

It's also possible that for a couple of cognitively dissonant reasons, Saudi Arabia would oppose it.

 

[RDKirk]

So you might understand why it sounds so funny when a german is confronted about Hitler from an american. Hitler was your wish candidate. Hitler not only got the funds from USA, but also his ideology. Eugentics, euthanasia and all this was a concept made from american philosophers. Even his greeting was something he copied from your cheerleaders.

Funny fact, the Holocaust would never be that efficient if IBM would not have supported it so hard. All this data was processed by advanced Hollerith machines. IBM even send staff to the camps to keep the system in perfect condition.

So is this the new German historical revision for the Millennial generation? The Americans did it? Hitler, Goebbels, Goring, et al were just gullible patsies?

 

[wing2000]

Events leading up to Nov 24th

Oct 3: Russian Su-24 and Su-30 fighters crossed into Turkish airspace north of Latakia in Hatay Province, Turkey. Turkey scrambled two F-16 fighters to intercept, and the Turkish government has warned Russia that any further violations of its air space will make Russia responsible for any unintended consequences.
Oct 5: NATO Warns Russia After Violations of Turkish Airspace: An emergency NATO meeting denounced Russia for 'irresponsible behavior' following reports that Russian warplanes violated Turkish airspace along the Syrian border in two separate incidents on 03 and 04 OCT, calling upon Russia to 'cease and desist' its 'incursions into...NATO airspace'.
Oct 6: Russian warplanes continue to violate Turkish airspace. Turkish officials summoned the Russian Ambassador to Turkey for a third time to warn against repeated Russian violations of Turkish airspace after Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace twice over the weekend and an unidentified MiG-29 fighter jet harassed two Turkish warplanes on patrol on 05 OCT.
Oct 8: U.S. officials stated that Russian warplanes have flown 'intercept tracks' near U.S. Predator drones operating over ISIS-controlled parts of Syria at least three times since the start of the Russian air campaign on September 30.
Oct 16: A Turkish jet downed a Russian drone that crossed from Syria into Turkey, according to an unnamed U.S. defense official.
Nov 20: Turkish Foreign Minister warned that Russian attacks on Syrian Turkmen villages "could lead to serious consequences."
Nov 22: Turkey refuses to allow Russia to send Mi-28 helicopters to Iraq over its airspace. They were sent over Iranian airspace instead.
Nov 24: Two Turkish F-16 planes shot down a Russian SU-24 jet on November 24 that Turkey claimed was in Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings.
http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/e...-Since-the-Start-of-the-Russian-Air-Campaign/