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Tucker Carlson falsely claims John Bolton was ‘man of the left’

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by tulc, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    Tucker Carlson falsely claims Bolton was ‘man of the left’
    tulc(thinks even by Tucker Carlson standards this was...odd) :sorry:
     
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  2. Cimorene

    Cimorene Ciao! Supporter

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    John Bolton was personally picked by Donald Trump. So Tucker thinks that Trump picked a man of the left?

    Lol, ok.
     
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  3. Albion

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    This turn of events was initially a bit of a shocker because of John Bolton's reputation as some sort of Conservative, but Tucker Carlson made a good case for the benefit of those people who were willing to listen to it. Politifact's editors obviously weren't among them.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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  5. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    ‘But Bolton’s hawkishness — which Carlson described as a preference for "the brute force of government" — does not make him liberal, LeoGrande said. "In the foreign policy field, Bolton’s speciality, the interventionists have been conservative Republicans."

    "From Central America in the 1980s to the Middle East today, conservatives have been the ones who think that the United States can get its abroad way by ‘brute force,’" he said.‘

    ‘The United States does not view itself as an aggressor state, but with the brief exception of the Obama administration (2009–16), whose core energies were absorbed with holding the U.S. and global economy together along with mitigating the impact of two unwinnable wars, the United States has become both more interventionist and less likely to cleave to its core principles of opposing genocide (e.g. Rwanda, Darfur) and abiding by the rule of law (e.g. Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib). It has fought two fantastically costly wars, won neither, and then insisted that Iran not acquire the means to defend itself. Allies and adversaries alike may therefore be forgiven for reimagining the United States as an aggressor and a possible threat to the international order.’

    ‘isystematic investigation of the role of U.S. foreign influence as a determinant of civil (domestic) conflicts in other countries...cvil wars around the world are more likely under Republican governments’

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304387814000534

    I guess they must all be secret lefties. Who knew? But if Tucker Carlson, well known arbiter of ‘da troof’ says so I suppose they must be.
     
  6. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    You left out Obama’s drone wars.
     
  7. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    It’s more a list of conflicts started than continued. As I understand it, drone attacks were used to reduce US casualties and troop numbers on the ground, whether that was successful or not I don’t know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  8. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Those drone strikes were expanded in Oman.

    Not to mention Obama extended our combat operations in Iraq to Syria. But he had to in my estimation as he was responsible as commander in Chief to chase ISIS to where they were operating.

    Obama maintained and expanded the globalist agenda. Trump has been trying to have us scale back and has actually shown more constraint than the previous 4 presidents. But he faces the same dilemma as did Obama. Full withdrawal in all corners of the ME and Afghanistan would be a disaster. No president wants their legacy to be the one which makes places we shed blood turn out worse.

    Obama learned that lesson. He agreed with the Bush withdrawal of Iraq and executed the Bush timeline. But the Bush plan called for military advisors, special forces and intelligence collection support for Iraq until they could provide their own. Obama did not agree with this minimal presence and in 18 short months ISIS was operating and controlling towns 20 miles from Baghdad. So Obama increased our support for Iraq beyond the levels Bush called for. Which continued on into Syria.
     
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  9. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    What are the probabilities of things improving do you think?
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Obama supporting Iraq in 2014 saved that country from ISIS controlling half the country and Iran coming in to claim the other half.

    To answer your question? No easy answers. Obama pretty much abandoned Iraq (which Joe Biden was supposed to “be in charge” of) in 2011. By 2013 ISIS expanded deep into Iraq and made significant gains in Syria. When we went back things got better. The moral of the story is it is indeed in our national interest to not let states fail and become havens and sanctuaries for the likes of Islamic terror groups like ISIS.

    The challenge is getting these weak states to become stable and do the policing themselves. That takes a lot of time. Now Obama is not to be blamed for the Shia dominated government from alienating the Sunni West and Northwest. Once we pulled plug, the Sunni had no arbiter (US) to influence the Iraqi government.

    We would have never been successful in the 2007-2008 surge of forces if Petraeus did not broker a deal with the Sunni leaders in Anbar province. The Shia majority government promises jobs for the Sunni males who were unemployed and fodder for AQI and other extremist groups. The Sunnis joined us full measure and in a matter of three months Anbar, the most violent province became the most peaceful. Which allowed US and Iraqi security forces to focus on Baghdad and the northern provinces.

    In 2011 after we left, the Obama admin did not keep engaging the the Shia majority government, the Sunni job deal fell through and the unemployed males in Anbar and Mosul ended up joining the ranks of ISIS.

    The generals kept reminding the Obama administration and State Dept of the deal brokered with Anbar, but they were not interested. Biden showed up in Iraq in the summer of 2009 when I was deployed there. He brought along a Congressional group. The headliner of the visit for the new administration was the Iraqi government’s lack of protective laws for homosexual citizens.
     
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  11. redleghunter

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  12. Tom Farebrother

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  13. Cimorene

    Cimorene Ciao! Supporter

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    It's dumb tribalism. Tucker is a head cheerleader in Trump's tribe. So when Trump decides to hire somebody even though there's a ton of valid objections like there totally was with Bolton the tribe goes rah rah rah & embraces the new hire bc he is now in their tribe. Then when invariably that person bolts bc Trump's got the worst staff turn over of any POTUS in history - the tribe wants to say he never was one of them to begin with. Then you can always always always bet tribe will chant "butter emails" or "OBAMA!" Bc those are the only cheers they know.
     
  14. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    This President will be on his 4th National Security Advisor in less than 3 years and at a time when the potential for military conflict is high!

    Dismissing John Bolton as a "leftist" is an easy way for Trump surrogates to explain his dismissal - given that the majority of this President's supporters are rural, white and uneducated!
     
  15. jgarden

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    This President will be on his 4th National Security Advisor in less than 3 years and at a time when the potential for military conflict around the world is high!

    Dismissing John Bolton as a "leftist" is a simplistic way for Trump surrogates to explain his dismissal - given that the majority of this President's supporters are rural, white and uneducated and believe every thing they're told!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  16. Tom Farebrother

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    Actually I do think Tucker Carlson has his own mind, he chooses to be a Trump supporter rather than because he should, I think. His views about the world in general though are often full of holes I think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  17. Albion

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    However, there is the Obama example (noted by others here) where he simply went to war on his own against a nation that was causing us no problems--Libya. And then you have Clinton, who did the same against Serbia. Also, keep in mind that so-called 'Neo-Cons' who were the advocates of war during several Republican administrations are not considered to be Conservatives by most Conservatives themselves.
     
  18. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    Was the intervention in the balkans considered to be a war in the US?
    Sounds like a mixed bag, from the outside the Republican administrations appear to have been the most hawkish when it comes to foreign policy. Nb that is not a critical statement, just saying, that is how it appears, from the data.
    Who is generally considered to be the arbiter of what is meant by conservative?
     
  19. Albion

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    Fifteen thousand people reportedly were killed, thanks to relentless American bombing runs. Most Americans had no doubts about this being war. And that was not done in isolation, you know; a ground war was underway in Kosovo at the time and the American/Clinton intervention was intended to assist one of the sides fighting in Kosovo.

    Could be. But if so, it should be sufficient for us to appreciate that Tucker Carlson may have had a point when he characterized John Bolton as he did.
     
  20. Tom Farebrother

    Tom Farebrother Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    Deaths from UN actions were a lot lower than that, in the hundreds.

    Sounds suspiciously like the Judean People's Front - maybe TC is a Monty Python fan?
    people's front of judea - Yahoo Video Search Results
     
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