Try to find SDA view of Sabbath vs Sunday in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

[Daniel Marsh]

Try to find SDA view of Sabbath vs Sunday in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i.e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus
Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath.

Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

 

[Dave-W]

You won't. The writings of the ECFs that were retained are mostly post-Bar Kochba, when Rome cracked down hard on anything that looked Jewish. So the church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Writings that advocated for a continued Saturday Sabbath were not retained. Indeed, Eusubius, writing circa 300 ad, listed sabbath keepers like the Nazoreans and Ebionites as heretics.

 

[Crosstian]

Just something to think about:

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Try to find SDA view of Sabbath vs Sunday in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i.e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus
Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath.

Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Chapter XVI.
ANF06. Fathers of the Third Century: Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius, and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arnobius by Schaff, Philip
that is, by four in one day, from the eighth …divine Scriptures themselves. And from the eighth day before…. And from the eighth day before the Kalends of July,

Chapter XVII.
ANF06. Fathers of the Third Century: Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius, and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arnobius by Schaff, Philip
first day; and the season of summer is divided by the eighth day before the Kalends of July, and that of autumn by the eighth before the Kalends of October, and

Luke 1:59
Barnes' New Testament Notes by Barnes, Albert
THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO LUKE - Chapter 1 - Verse 59 Verse 59. On the eighth day. This was the day on which it was required to circumcise children,

Chapter XXI.—The date of the martyrdom.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus by Schaff, Philip
day of the month Xanthicus just begun, The translation is … “of the present month.” the seventh day before…eighth hour. Great obscurity hangs over the chronology here
The Ancients Assumed Original Sin.

NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
were brought even before the eighth day after his birth,…baptized before the eighth day. None agreed with the person … that the uncertain question of the eighth day was solved,
MartPol.21

The Apostolic Fathers by Lightfoot, John
Now the blessed Polycarp was martyred on the second day of… the eighth hour. He was apprehended by Herodes, when

Part IV.
ANF08. The Twelve Patriarchs, Excerpts and Epistles, The Clementia, Apocrypha, Decretals, Memoirs of Edessa and Syriac Documents, Remains of the First Age by Schaff, Philip
the eighth century. preached at Edessa and in Mesopotamia … the days of Abgar the king. And, when he was

Jewish Customs.
ANF08. The Twelve Patriarchs, Excerpts and Epistles, The Clementia, Apocrypha, Decretals, Memoirs of Edessa and Syriac Documents, Remains of the First Age by Schaff, Philip
their sons on the eighth day without fail, and shed … Gentiles has ever submitted to this on the eighth day;…the world, mixed with Gentiles, and on the eighth day

NPNF (V2-14) by Schaff, Philip
the bishop, or to the presbyters, on the fifth day of… the Trullan Synod in its seventy-eighth canon.
The Eighty Concubines, What; The Knowledge of the Incarnation Communicated to the Prophets.

ANF06. Fathers of the Third Century: Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius, and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arnobius by Schaff, Philip
the spiritual eighth day Here, and in many other places…seed, and foretold the circumcision of the spiritual eighth day

Questions 51-75
The Westminster Shorter Catechism
Sabbath-day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day …For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the
St. Anatolius

ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries. by Schaff, Philip
Nicomedia on the day preceding the kalends of May, 30th of April. in the eighth consulship of Galerius…divine forgiveness. In a few days after he was consumed by
Tersteegen, Gerhard (1697-1769)

and Lord of glory! Easter Day. Evening: The Resurrection from the Death of Sin Eighth Sunday after Trinity: The…Day: The Childlike Heart Jesus, pitying Saviour, hear
Barn.15

The Apostolic Fathers by Lightfoot, John
beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another …Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in …of His hands in six days, and He ended on the

What Covenant of God the New-Born Babe Breaks. What Was the Value of Circumcision.
NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
the eighth day. How could he have so sinned, how so… not circumcised on the eighth day, his soul shall be … the eighth day, that is, by the sacrament of the

Leviticus 12
Darby Trans. Bible
And on the eighth day shall the flesh of his foreskin …shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of the…days in the blood of her cleansing; no holy thing
Leviticus 12

WEB Bible
eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. …she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of …three days. She shall not touch any holy thing, nor

Cyprian the bishop.
NPNF (V2-03) by Schaff, Philip
and Gallienus, in the eighth persecution, on the same day that Cornelius was put to death at Rome, but not

Why the Circumcision of Infants Was Enjoined Under Pain of So Great a Punishment.
NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
mother’s womb, on the eighth day from their birth; … not circumcised on the eighth day.” Gen.
SpecLaws2.XI

The Works of Philo Judaeus by Philo
seventh day of seventh days. The eighth is the …to hear called a festival. This festival is every day. The second festival is the seventh day, which
John 7:2

Barnes' New Testament Notes by Barnes, Albert
wilderness, Le 23:42,43. The feast was continued eight days, and the eighth or last day was the most distinguished…the fifteenth day of the month Tisri, answering to the

Chapter XLI.—The oblation of fine flour was a figure of the Eucharist.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus by Schaff, Philip
circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the… all the days, is called, however, the eighth, … first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord

Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus by Schaff, Philip
shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a …the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which …creation [thus]: “And God made in six days the
In What Sense Christ is Called 'Sin.'

NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
as if circumcised on the eighth day; inasmuch as he is circumcised in Him who rose again the third day indeed … come to heal our offences. On whatever day, therefore
He Shows that Cyprian Had Not Doubted the Original Sin of Infants.

NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
administered before the eighth day, he endeavoured, as far…eighth day that infants were before circumcised), that they…baptized and sanctified before the eighth day after its birth,
Leviticus 12
ASV Bible
And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be… she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of…her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no

Leviticus 12

bear a man child, she shall be unclean seven days, according to the days of the separation of her flowers. And on the eighth day the infant shall be circumcised:

Leviticus 12
KJV Bible
: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his
Leviticus 12

Psalm XII
NPNF (V1-08) by Schaff, Philip
be taken as the day of judgment. “For the eighth… This Psalm was used by the Hebrews on the eighth day… To the end, for the eighth, a psalm of David.

Further References to Cyprian.
NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
infant might be baptized before the eighth day, this …put away, ought to be given before the eighth day. To…the eighth day, we all thought very differently in our

John 7:37
Barnes' New Testament Notes by Barnes, Albert
Verse 37 Verse 37. In the last day. The eighth day of the festival. That great day. The day of … seems to have been called the great day, 1st. Because
JESU, NOSTRA REDEMPTIO

Hymns of the Early Church: Translations from the Poetry of the Latin Church by Brownlie, John
eighth century. Found in three MSS. of the eleventh … Day in that author’s “Hymns of the Primitive Church…captives hailed the glorious day; And by Thy mighty triumph
Dedication.

Good Thoughts in Bad Times and Other Papers. by Fuller, Thomas
May-day, Anno Dom. 1517, in the ninth year of King Henry the Eighth, wherein much mischief was done …more confounded. This last good May-day hath made
The Platonists’ Opinion About the Existence of the Soul Previous to the Body Rejected.

NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
of the foreskin. For the eighth day, in the recurrence of weeks, became the Lord’s day, on which the
Chapter XVIII.—Passages from Moses, which the heretics pervert to the support of their hypothesis.

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus by Schaff, Philip
the eighth day, for sometimes they will have him to … the eighth day, Gen. xvii. 12. represented the… creation, every one of them generates something new, day
He Touched Her Hand

Matthew 1:25
Barnes' New Testament Notes by Barnes, Albert
eighth day, at the time of his circumcision, Lu 2

ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix by Schaff, Philip
following are the contents of the eighth book of the Refutation… err who contend for keeping Easter on the fourteenth day
In What Respect the Pelagians Acknowledge God as the Author of Our Justification.

NPNF (V1-05) by Schaff, Philip
receive on the eighth day after birth; he immediately adds

Wesley on 'Boston Stump'
Journal of John Wesley by Wesley, John
am entered this day into the seventy-eight year of my… as when I entered the twenty-eighth. This hath God

Leviticus 22:26-28; Exodus 22:20; Exodus 34:26; Deuteronomy 14:21
Harmony of the Law (V2) by Calvin, John
and from the eighth day and thenceforth it shall be … eighth day thou shalt give it me. … grow accustomed to cruelty. The eighth day is

John 7:22
Barnes' New Testament Notes by Barnes, Albert
10. Ye on the sabbath-day, &c. The law required that the child should be circumcised on the eighth day. If that day happened to be the Sabbath, yet they
Chapter XXIV.—The Christians’ circumcision far more excellent.

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus by Schaff, Philip
it is possible for us to show how the eighth day possessed a certain mysterious import, which the seventh day did… hands all the day unto a disobedient and gainsaying people
Chap. XII

ANF07. Fathers of the Third and Fourth Centuries. by Schaff, Philip
whole earth. When that day dawned, in the eighth … Chap. XII. A fit and auspicious day was … “That day, the harbinger of death, arose,

Leviticus 23

holocausts to the Lord. The eighth day also shall be most…on the first day and the eighth shall be a sabbath, …which you shall call holy. Six days shall ye do
Leviticus 23

WEB Bible
eighth day shall be a holy convocation to you; and you…rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.…. “‘Six days shall work be done: but

Search Results (61 - 70 of 1977)

The Consecration of Joy
Expositions of Holy Scripture: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers by MacLaren, Alexander
unto the Lord; on the eighth day shall be an holy…sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. …assembly on the first and eighth days, with cessation from

Chapter IX. The reason why a Vigil is appointed as the Sabbath day dawns, and why a dispensation…

NPNF-211. Sulpitius Severus, Vincent of Lerins, John Cassian by Schaff, Philip
appointed as the Sabbath day dawns, and why a dispensation … East before the Sabbath (Saturday) and Lord’s Day,…Saviour had been crucified on the sixth day of the week,

Hymn XIX.

NPNF-213. Gregory the Great (II), Ephraim Syrus, Aphrahat by Schaff, Philip
. 11. Let the eighth day, which circumcised the …triumphs, the sum of all help:—as the first day of …the sword. 3. The day of the All-Lightening,

Leviticus 23
ASV Bible
offering made by fire unto Jehovah: on the eighth day …day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day …feasts. Six days shall work be done: but on the

Leviticus 23
YLT Bible
eighth day ye have a holy convocation, and ye have … eighth day a sabbath; and ye have taken to …they [are] My appointed seasons: six days is work


ANF08. The Twelve Patriarchs, Excerpts and Epistles, The Clementia, Apocrypha, Decretals, Memoirs of Edessa and Syriac Documents, Remains of the First Age by Schaff, Philip
on the eighth day before the kalends of April, which is the twenty-fifth day of the month of March, in the
The Burgundians embrace Christianity under Theodosius the Younger.

NPNF (V2-02) by Schaff, Philip
the eighth day baptized and dismissed them. Accordingly becoming…ordering them to fast seven days, and having meanwhile
Josephus, son of Matthias.

NPNF (V2-03) by Schaff, Philip
highly esteemed. In the eighth book of his Antiquities he…appeared to them the third day alive. Many things, both …Christians, so named from Him, exists to the present day.
Jesus the Christ.

ANF05. Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix by Schaff, Philip
Be Baptized Before the eighth day After Its Birth, He …eighth day, we all thought very differently in our council.… the eighth day in the Jewish circumcision of the flesh,
Chapter IV

NPNF (V1-06) by Schaff, Philip
circumcision on the eighth day in the Old Testament, and …day which is certainly the eighth, and at the same time…kingdom of heaven.” This eighth sentence, which goes back
Chapter IV

NPNF (V1-06) by Schaff, Philip
circumcision on the eighth day in the Old Testament, and …day which is certainly the eighth, and at the same time…kingdom of heaven.” This eighth sentence, which goes back

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Just something to think about:

my computer does not have speakers, so video is a waste of time for me

 

[Crosstian]

my computer does not have speakers, so video is a waste of time for me

That's ok. Then it isn't for you.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

You won't. The writings of the ECFs that were retained are mostly post-Bar Kochba, when Rome cracked down hard on anything that looked Jewish. So the church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Writings that advocated for a continued Saturday Sabbath were not retained. Indeed, Eusubius, writing circa 300 ad, listed sabbath keepers like the Nazoreans and Ebionites as heretics.

Nice excuse to avoid history. I am asking for Early Church Fathers with links to quotes. Some of the Church Fathers were taught by the Apostles themselves.

Church Fathers 50 - 750 A.D. Timeline | Preceden

 

[Dave-W]

Nice excuse to avoid history. I am asking for Early Church Fathers with links to quotes. Some of the Church Fathers were taught by the Apostles themselves.

Church Fathers 50 - 750 A.D. Timeline | Preceden

There was nothing "funny" about my reply. It is dead serious.

Yes some of the ECFs were taught by the apostles. But there was an underlying antisemitism in those gentile believers. (do you know of writings by any ECFs who were Jewish?) They were intent (once the apostles were dead and gone) to distance Christianity from Judaism; and changing the Sabbath was one way of doing that.

I would submit that neither our Lord, nor any of the apostles, wanted to do that. Christianity should have stayed a movement within greater Judaism.

 

[Crosstian]

Circumcision of the flesh on the eighth day, a one time event being counted from the moment of birth of a MALE, yep. That's Biblical.

What does that (physical circumcision of a MALE) have to do with a weekly event - "the first [day] of the week" (mian twn sabbatwn), which day, is nowhere called the "eighth day" in scripture at all, ever? Biblical text?

As for Philip Schaff, you do know that he was tried for heresy by his own peers and fellows, and was an admirer of Mde Helena P. Blavatsky (Schaff had worked with the Luciferian Theosophical Society in directing the Parliament of World Religions of 1893; David S. Schaff, The Life of Philip Schaff, NY: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, pp. 357-358), and textual critic? - The Trial of Phillip Schaff - Leben

 

[Crosstian]

... In the Epistle of Barnabas ...

You do realize that the so-called "epistle of Barnabas", actually Pseduo-Barnabas (apocryphal; Pseduopigrahon) is found in Codex Sinaiticus (Codex Aleph), which is found to be a forgery, and is anything but 4th cent.:

 

[Crosstian]

As for Sunday, beware of misquotations and misrepresentations in the ECF:

Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

 

[eleos1954]

Try to find SDA view of Sabbath vs Sunday in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

In the Epistle of Barnabas (xv) we read: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eight day (i.e. the first of the week) with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead".

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sunday

ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus
Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath.

Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.
ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

It doesn't matter about what any "church" has taught ... what matters is what Jesus and the apostles taught ... and we are to follow the Lamb ... He is our perfect example. Jesus and the apostles kept the 7th day Sabbath.

The "Jesus was a Jew"... statement/claim does not "fly" either. Jesus IS God ... who knows more about God than God?

Colossians 2:9

For in Him (Jesus) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

1 John 2:6

Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

He did not make it difficult to understand .... made it simple .... follow me He said.

Luke 6:46

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Ephesians 5:1

Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

Luke 6:40

A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

There was nothing "funny" about my reply. It is dead serious.

Yes some of the ECFs were taught by the apostles. But there was an underlying antisemitism in those gentile believers. (do you know of writings by any ECFs who were Jewish?) They were intent (once the apostles were dead and gone) to distance Christianity from Judaism; and changing the Sabbath was one way of doing that.

I would submit that neither our Lord, nor any of the apostles, wanted to do that. Christianity should have stayed a movement within greater Judaism.

e. Those who lived in Italy, Spain, or Gaul, and had little communication with Jews, are of minor signi- ficance for Jewish literature, compared with the Fathers of Palestine, Syria, and Egypt.
...
Justin Martyr was born about 100 A.D., in Flavia
Neapolis, formerly called Sichem, in the country of the
Samaritans
...
The differences between the Synagogue and the Church
turn mostly on the exegesis of Holy Writ; a large por-
tion of the Agada in the Midrash and Talmud is a polemic
against Christiani
...
The writings of Titus Flavius Clemens of Alexandria
offer but few materials of interest for Jewish literature.
His distinguishing excellence consisted in a sound know-
ledge of Hellenic literature rather than of theology.
His information about Judaism he seems to have derived
exclusively from Greek writings, particularly from
Philo and Josephus. A persecution of the Christians,
which raged in Alexandria in the years 202 and 203,
drove Clement to seek safety in flight, and he appears
to have taken up his residence for a short while in
Syria
...
Accept Terms and Conditions on JSTOR

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Chapter 71. The Jews reject the interpretation of the Septuagint, from which, moreover, they have taken away some passages
Justin: But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying; but since I am aware that this is denied by all of your nation, I do not address myself to these points, but I proceed to carry on my discussions by means of those passages which are still admitted by you. For you assent to those which I have brought before your attention, except that you contradict the statement, 'Behold, the virgin shall conceive,' and say it ought to be read, 'Behold, the young woman shall conceive.' And I promised to prove that the prophecy referred, not, as you were taught, to Hezekiah, but to this Christ of mine: and now I shall go to the proof.


CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

How is what Justin wrote there Anti-Semitic?

 

[Dave-W]

How is what Justin wrote there Anti-Semitic?

If you can't see it I doubt I could convince you.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Our teacher of these things is Jesus Christ, who also was born for this purpose, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judæa, in the times of Tiberius Cæsar; and that we reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place, and the prophetic Spirit in the third, we will prove. For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.
...
Me note: this is the text overlooked in proof texts.

And again in other words, through another prophet, He says, "They pierced my hands and my feet, and for my vesture they cast lots."[66] And indeed David, the king and prophet, who uttered these things, suffered none of them; but Jesus Christ stretched forth His hands, being crucified by the Jews speaking against Him, and denying that He was the Christ.
...
Me note: this is the Me note: this is the proof text used to say he was anti jews.

And this the Jews who possessed the books of the prophets did not understand, and therefore did not recognise Christ even when He came, but even hate us who say that He has come, and who prove that, as was predicted, He was crucified by them.
...
Chap. xlix.—His rejection by the Jews foretold.

And again, how it was said by the same Isaiah, that the Gentile nations who were not looking for Him should worship Him, but the Jews who always expected Him should not recognise Him when He came. And the words are spoken as from the person of Christ; and they are these: "I was manifest to them that asked not for me; I was found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, to a nation that called not on my name.

Me note: when read in context, it is clear Justin is not speaking about every single Jewish person in Jesus's time on earth.
but the Jewish and Samaritan races are called the tribe of Israel, and the house of Jacob.

Ante-Nicene Christian Library/The First Apology of Justin Martyr - Wikisource, the free online library

And again, from the sayings of the same Jeremiah these have been cut out: 'The Lord God remembered His dead people of Israel who lay in the graves; and He descended to preach to them His own salvation.'

For, indeed, He was also called Israel, and Jacob's name was changed to this also. Now Isaiah shows that those prophets who are sent to publish tidings from God are called His angels and apostles. For Isaiah says in a certain place, 'Send me.' Isaiah 6:8 And that the prophet whose name was changed, Jesus [Joshua], was strong and great, is manifest to all. If, then, we know that God revealed Himself in so many forms to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, how are we at a loss, and do not believe that, according to the will of the Father of all things, it was possible for Him to be born man of the Virgin, especially after we have such Scriptures, from which it can be clearly seen that He became so according to the will of the Father?



CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)





From another source that is claimed to be anti-Jewish people:

For it is written concerning Him, partly with reference to Israel, and partly to us; and [the Scripture] saith thus: "He was wounded for our transgressions, and bruised for our iniquities:

Ante-Nicene Christian Library/Epistle of Barnabas - Wikisource, the free online library

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Circumcision of the flesh on the eighth day, a one time event being counted from the moment of birth of a MALE, yep. That's Biblical.

What does that (physical circumcision of a MALE) have to do with a weekly event - "the first [day] of the week" (mian twn sabbatwn), which day, is nowhere called the "eighth day" in scripture at all, ever? Biblical text?

As for Philip Schaff, you do know that he was tried for heresy by his own peers and fellows, and was an admirer of Mde Helena P. Blavatsky (Schaff had worked with the Luciferian Theosophical Society in directing the Parliament of World Religions of 1893; David S. Schaff, The Life of Philip Schaff, NY: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, pp. 357-358), and textual critic? - The Trial of Phillip Schaff - Leben

It all shows that spiritual events of ritual and worship are lawful on the eight day.

Now, reread the texts about the Church worshiping on the eight day, which would be a Sunday.

Aside Thread somewhat related is: How does this line up with Scripture?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

You do realize that the so-called "epistle of Barnabas", actually Pseduo-Barnabas (apocryphal; Pseduopigrahon) is found in Codex Sinaiticus (Codex Aleph), which is found to be a forgery, and is anything but 4th cent.:

I do not have speakers on my computer.

But, I heard of the nut case you posted in the videoes and since he is related to Chick. I have no doubt he is not a reliable source.

Codex Sinaiticus

There are a couple of things in this article that are somewhat misleading. First, this is a codex, not a Bible. And the terms are not synonyms. A codex is a collection or book of writings. Codex Sinaiticus includes Old and New Testament books, and other writings that weren't considered "Bible" at the time of it's compilation. So Codex Sinaiticus is not a Bible - it's a collection that includes Biblical writings along with other writings.

Second, Codex Sinaiticus has all 27 books of the New Testament that we have today and only two other writings that were understood at the time of the compilation to be disputed. The inclusion of the Epistle of Barnabas and The Shepherd of Hermas doesn't mean this was a different version of the Bible used at the time. F.F. Bruce points out in his book on the Biblical canon that writings other than those that were considered authoritative were used for additional readings by church bodies for the insight and benefit they offered, devotional-type readings. Collections of what was read were made sometimes for convenience. So simply because this volume includes Biblical books doesn't necessarily mean that the people who compiled the codex or collection considered everything in it "Bible" or on par with the authoritative writings it does include.

Third, there was much more agreement than disagreement about the books of the Bible that were to be considered "canon." Juan Garces says in this article that "the Bible has developed and changed over the years." There is some truth to this, but that statement is easily misleading because there really hasn't been that much change or development, and the little there was was resolved quite early on. Though there was some debate in the first couple of centuries, there was primarily agreement on the books that were authoritative. These were the writings that could be traced to an Apostle of Jesus, the people who had learned directly from Jesus (this includes Paul), or could be traced to eyewitnesses (Luke). There was some minor disagreement about other books, but the New Testament books included today were agreed upon by the middle of the 4th century.

Emperor Constantine asked Eusebius in AD 330 to prepare 50 copies of the New Testament, and the volumes he compiled were the 27 books of the New Testament we have today and the five catholic epistles, which he noted were still disputed. By the time Codex Sinaiticus was compiled around the same time, the New Testament was upon with little more disagreement. So the Bible didn't develop much after the first couple of centuries and was fairly well settled by the time of Codex Sinaiticus.

Fourth, Codex Sinaiticus has some passages that are different or missing. This isn't surprising or problematic for the reliability of the text we have today. Scribes copied these collections by hand and were known to make mistakes. In fact, the text of this codex has markings of later corrections. But the good news is that we don't have to rely on one copy of the New Testament to determine what the text was or check the accuracy of the text. If we did, then were would be left to wonder about scribal mistakes. Codex Sinaitucs is only the earliest known complete collection of the New Testament, it's by no means the earliest manuscript evidence we have for the New Testament text. We have literally thousands of pieces of manuscripts of the New Testament and even more quotations of the the New Testament in the writings of the church fathers to compare and arrive at a very reliable text. Greg describes the process here: Is the New Testament Text Reliable?

So Codex Sinaiticus is a significant text, but it doesn't at all call into question the authority and reliability of the Bible. It's not one copy that tells the story of the Bible, it's the multitude of copies and pieces that can be examined. The canon of Scripture was agreed upon very early, prior to Codex Sinanticus. And the manuscript evidence we have gives us great confidence in the accuracy of the text.

You may also want to read Greg's article No "Lost" Books of the Bible.

Posted by Melinda Penner on February 19, 2010 at 01:47 AM in :Melinda Penner, Apologetics | Permalink

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Chick and false teachers, not really his fault?