Try to find SDA view of death in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

Daniel Marsh

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Try to find SDA view of death in the Early Church Fathers with links to quotes

Death and Resurrection Z26 The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is
an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous
will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take
place a thousand years later. (Job 19:25-27; Ps. 146:3, 4; Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10; Dan. 12:2, 13; Isa. 25:8; John 5:28, 29; 11:11-14;

https://szu.adventist.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/28_Beliefs.pdf
 

Dave-W

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Was the SDA around in the first or second century ? (or even third? .... fourth..... fifth ? )
I think an argument could be made the SDA (started in the 1840s) was a return (at least in part) to the Christianity of the late first and early 2nd (pre-Bar Kochba) centuries.
 
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Crosstian

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Just something to think about:

Conditionalist faith of our Fathers:

http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...itionalist-Faith-Of-Our-Fathers-Volume-01.pdf

http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...itionalist-Faith-Of-Our-Fathers-Volume-02.pdf

Justin Martyr, replying to Trypho, says:

"… [Trypho] "‘And do all the souls of all living beings comprehend Him?’ he asked; ‘or are the souls of men of one kind and the souls of horses and of asses of another kind?’

[Justin] "‘No; but the souls which are in all are similar,’ I answered. …

… [Trypho] "‘They [souls] are not, then, immortal?’

[Justin] “‘No; since the world has appeared to us to be begotten.’ …”

Athanasius the Great - On the Incarnation of the Word, Chapter 4

“… For transgression of the commandment was turning them back to their natural state, so that just as they have had their being out of nothing, so also, as might be expected, they might look for corruption into nothing in the course of time. 5. For if, out of a former normal state of non-existence, they were called into being by the Presence and loving-kindness of the Word, it followed naturally that when men were bereft of the knowledge of God and were turned back to what was not (for what is evil is not, but what is good is), they should, since they derive their being from God who IS, be everlastingly bereft even of being; in other words, that they should be disintegrated and abide in death and corruption . …”

Ignasius - The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians

“… Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be . …”

Also, in general

"… The second, and next most important, thing I learned is that, during the period under study, Conditionalism, and not (as it is today) Naturalism [immortality], was the more prevalent view of the writing Fathers of the Church. This fact can be demonstrated by a simple enumeration, as follows:

Conditionalists: 14 definite, 4 probable – total 18
Naturalists: 8 definite, 2 probable – total 10

So Conditionalism was favored over Naturalism by almost a 2 to 1 majority of the 28 Fathers I was able to classify.

Another question worth asking is: Was this a regional conflict? Were the Fathers in one geographical area more inclined to Conditionalism, and the Fathers in another more inclined to Naturalism? The following chart will illustrate the surprising answer to this question:

Region Conditionalists Naturalists
Asia 8 or 9 1
Europe 6 2
Africa 2 or 3 6
(Unknown) 1 1 …" - bryangrayministries.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Immortality-in-the-Early-Church.doc
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Also, in general

"… The second, and next most important, thing I learned is that, during the period under study, Conditionalism, and not (as it is today) Naturalism [immortality], was the more prevalent view of the writing Fathers of the Church. This fact can be demonstrated by a simple enumeration, as follows:

Conditionalists: 14 definite, 4 probable – total 18
Naturalists: 8 definite, 2 probable – total 10

So Conditionalism was favored over Naturalism by almost a 2 to 1 majority of the 28 Fathers I was able to classify.

Another question worth asking is: Was this a regional conflict? Were the Fathers in one geographical area more inclined to Conditionalism, and the Fathers in another more inclined to Naturalism? The following chart will illustrate the surprising answer to this question:
It doesn't surprise me.
Does a person chose to be labelled 'contitionalist' or 'naturalist' ?
Or does someone else decide ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Try to find SDA view of death in the Early Church Fathers
Was the SDA around in the first or second century ? (or even third? .... fourth..... fifth ? )

So why the proposal in the op to try to find the SDA view from that time period ?
The ecf did not think nor believe like the SDA, Anabaptists, or other Ekklesia, I think.
Rather, the SDA >>
I think an argument could be made the SDA (started in the 1840s) was a return (at least in part) to the Christianity of the late first and early 2nd (pre-Bar Kochba) centuries.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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So why the proposal in the op to try to find the SDA view from that time period ?
The ecf did not think nor believe like the SDA, Anabaptists, or other Ekklesia, I think.
Rather, the SDA >>

As proof that SDA, Anabaptists, LDS is not the early Church and the Early Church . Basically, the ECFs represent what the early church believed.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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As proof that SDA, Anabaptists, LDS is not the early Church and the Early Church . Basically, the ECFs represent what the early church believed.
That is what man's traditions says. It often contradicts , or does not, "prove" anything at all.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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That is what man's traditions says. It often contradicts , or does not, "prove" anything at all.

It tells us historically what the early church believed. Like it or not it does prove those churches do not teach what the early church taught.

It is fact, and I guess you can not handle that.
Agape,
Daniel

PS these pictures are meant to be in good humor friend.
If one of the pictures is not allowed let me know and I will try to delete it when I see your post.

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Daniel Marsh

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Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a rushed conclusion without considering all of the variables. In statistics, it may involve basing broad conclusions regarding the statistics of a survey from a small sample group that fails to sufficiently represent an entire population.[2] Its opposite fallacy is called slothful induction, or denying a reasonable conclusion of an inductive argument (e.g. "it was just a coincidence").

The invincible ignorance fallacy[1] is a deductive fallacy of circularity where the person in question simply refuses to believe the argument, ignoring any evidence given. It is not so much a fallacious tactic in argument as it is a refusal to argue in the proper sense of the word, the method instead being to either make assertions with no consideration of objections or to simply dismiss objections by calling them excuses, conjecture, etc. or saying that they are proof of nothing; all without actually demonstrating how the objection fit these terms (see ad lapidem fallacy).

Argumentum ad lapidem (English: "appeal to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd, invalid, or incorrect, without giving proof of its absurdity.[1][2][3]

Ad lapidem statements are fallacious because they fail to address the merits of the claim in dispute. The same applies to proof by assertion, where an unproved or disproved claim is asserted as true on no ground other than that of its truth having been asserted.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It tells us historically what the early church believed. Like it or not it does prove those churches do not teach what the early church taught.
?? 'historically', man's tradition led most astray - in Jesus' day as He talked to the religious leaders (Scribes, Saducess and Pharisees) , and today, the same.
Scripture is the Standard. Yahuweh's Spirit never contradicts any Scripture.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Basically, the ECFs represent what the early church believed.
There are faithful Ekklesia who have showed in the past that Waldensians, Anabaptists, and other groups also "represent" what the Ekklesia always believed, early and middle and late/ modern? All that any say, all of them and ecf, each must be tested and proven true before accepting.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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?? 'historically', man's tradition led most astray - in Jesus' day as He talked to the religious leaders (Scribes, Saducess and Pharisees) , and today, the same.
Scripture is the Standard. Yahuweh's Spirit never contradicts any Scripture.

Since the ECF were taught by the Apostles, it is not Man's Traditions.

2 Thessalonians 2:15Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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There are faithful Ekklesia who have showed in the past that Waldensians, Anabaptists, and other groups also "represent" what the Ekklesia always believed, early and middle and late/ modern? All that any say, all of them and ecf, each must be tested and proven true before accepting.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.

Do you know everything the apostles taught by word?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Since the ECF were taught by the Apostles, it is not Man's Traditions.

2 Thessalonians 2:15Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.
Whenever anyone contradicts Scripture, it is not good, right nor truth. Doesn't matter if it is or is not man's traditions.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.

As I pointed out before, we all approach Scripture with our opinions and often read them into it. That is why using historical sources to be objective is necessary.
 
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Since the ECF were taught by the Apostles, it is not Man's Traditions.

2 Thessalonians 2:15Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word or our epistle.


This isn't always true. St. Methodius and St. Cyril are included among the Early Church Fathers.

St. Methodius was born in 826 (or 827) and died in 869 AD.

St. Cyril was born in 815 and died in 885 AD.

This is far too late for either of them to be taught by an Apostle.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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This isn't always true. St. Methodius and St. Cyril are included among the Early Church Fathers.

St. Methodius was born in 826 (or 827) and died in 869 AD.

St. Cyril was born in 815 and died in 885 AD.

This is far too late for either of them to be taught by an Apostle.

I was talking about the Early Church Fathers. Why play those games.
 
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