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Truth

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by theoneinsidethezero, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    Hello everyone! My name if Paul. I am almost 44. For the first 27 years of my life I was a die hard Christian until I found some very disturbing contradictions in the Bible. Such as God is not the author of confusion but yet authored the confusion of our language at the tower of Babel. God is so holy that he can't even look upon sin and yet he himself says in Isaiah I form the light and created darkness, I make peace and create evil I the Lord do all these things. And on and on the contradictions went.

    When I brought them to the attention of my family, friends and church no one would listen to me. But that stirred up in me a hunger for the truth that I had never had before. So tonight I would like to share my discovery and ask a question at the end.

    First a solid definition of the truth:

    Truth is that which cannot be contradicted by man; is one with all laws that govern the universe; transcends language cultures and nations; does not require endless sermons, explanations and lectures to explain; is not based on a bunch of conflicting beliefs but rather on a few harmonious facts; is what we all have in common; and is something every human heart can acknowledge and recognize.

    Christianity is out there in the world day and night spreading the good news that doesn't sound anything remotely like what I have described above. Christianity has a ton of denominations, divisions, disagreements from the highest levels within the church right down to the dinner tables of their members, etc. Does truth divide us? Can a divided house stand. I mean if Christians are really going to go out into all the world and share the truth you would at least expect them to agree as to what the truth actually is.

    Jesus said "You will know the truth and the truth will set you free." Notice he said know the truth. Not kinda know it. Not sorta know it. Not just believe in it. I mean Know it beyond any shadow of a doubt. And to date I would venture to say not one human being on this planet knows the truth as I have described above. I would also say that the book that no one was found worthy to open in Revelation is the Bible.

    So here is my question: What is the secret to finding the truth in the Bible? I know it all centers around Jesus and for the record I will tell you what I think it might be but interested to hear anyones comments.

    Jesus said "I am the way, The Truth and The Life". Notice in Genesis that Got placed a flaming sword that spun every which way to guard 'The Way' to the tree of 'Life'. Then later says our way will be blocked with thorns and thistles. This reminds me of the Crown of Thorns around the mind of Christ that looks like a freeze frame of the flaming sword spinning every which way. Ephesians says the the sword of the spirit is the word of God. Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is the Word of God. Jesus said he came not to bring peace but a sword. And says he will fight the church with the sword of his mouth. The tree of life that man cannot reach out his hand and grab from is the mind and Jesus was Crucified at Golgotha place of 'The Skull'. I could go on but do you see what I'm getting at.

    Last the reason no one can open that book in revelation aka the Bible is because it is veiled in a lie. Just put the 'e' at the end of the word Bible and place it in front of the 'b' and you get 'LIE' spelled backwards every other letter. E B I B L It is also seen in skip sequence by putting the last verse of the Bible up against the first one.

    the grace of our lord jesus christ be withyoua l lamen i ntheb e ginning god created

    I'm not saying any of this to hurt any one. I am trying to warn the church of what is coming. Revelation says you will be hated by all nations on account of Jesus Christ. Why do you think that is? Because Christianity is a lie. Revelation also says that blessed is he who dies in the name of the Lord from "NOW ON"...So much more to say but I digress.
     
  2. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  3. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    It is not clear to me how the type of confusion talked about in tower of Babel in any way equates to the type of confusion that Paul was talking about. In Isaiah 45:7, Hebrew word translated as "evil" can mean bad, hurt, displeased, harm, sad, ill, ugly, sorrow, unpleasant, mischief, adversity, wretchedness, distressing, serious, miserable, wickedness, calamity, disaster, affliction, or trouble, and it is used in contrast with creating peace, so many translations use calamity or disaster. In any case, the context is clearly not speaking about moral evil, so there is no need to force that contradiction. There are endless lists of supposed contradictions circulating the internet, and usually they are pretty easy to explain without much effort, but I've found that they are mostly just smoke screens. In other words, would you believe that Christianity were true if managed explain everything you thought was a contradiction?

    It is a shame that they weren't willing to listen to you, but questions that send you digging for answers are good.

    I can agree that truth is object and not dependant on human opinion, but I see no justification for dismissing something as truth because there are many sermons or lectures on the topic, for why it conly be based on a few harmonious facts, that we all have in common, or that every human can acknowledge recognize. For example, I would say that it is a truth that the world is round, yet because there are people who think it is flat, that would mean that it wasn't a truth according to your definition.

    It is of course important to agree on key issues, but the problem is that all forms of communication require to interpretation and even if someone were to say something that is true, then can still be understood differently by different people. I'm not sure that you can point to a single truth that can't be misunderstood by someone, so that would make a poor standard for determining what is true. It sounds to me like you might be interested in reading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis:

    https://www.dacc.edu/assets/pdfs/PCM/merechristianitylewis.pdf

    Many people do know the truth, but I don't think there is much that would qualify as true under your standard.

    The secret to finding the truth is careful study.

    Those verses were not referring to the same thing and even if they were, there is no particular reason by it can't be both.

    You really end up in a pickle when you take figurative language literally.

    At this point, you're starting to get silly.

    If you're wanting to convince anyone that Christianity is a lie, then you're going to have to find reasons that are much more persuasive.
     
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  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Perhaps, perhaps not.
    Multitudes on earth believe Christianity is a lie, without much persuasion at all. Just to go along with family , friends or others that they want the approval of.

    p.s., still and overall, great post and TRUE to God's Word, JESUS!
     
  5. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ In Christ our Hope of Glory Supporter

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  6. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    Thanks for your thoughtful reply and taking the time to put that together. You had asked if all the controversy surrounding the Bible and Christianity were resolved would I become a believer. The short answer to that is no but I would like you to understand why in the hopes that you might better understand where people like myself are coming from. I had said that Christianity is a lie but had very little reasoning to back it up. So allow me to pull some of this together for you and the rest of this community.


    So, let me start out by asking you a question. When you look at yourself in the mirror do you believe the image reflecting back at you is real? Of course not. How about when you read the word Jesus is the graven image presented to your mind real? Of course not. This fleshly image is not the truth but only a reflection of the truth as in a mirror. This reflection stands in place of the truth and opposes the truth because when we are trying to comprehend what the Spirit of the Word is actually saying this graven image is tempting us to believe that the image we see in the mirror of our minds eye is the truth. But, the Bible says God is Spirit and that the flesh wars against the Spirit.


    Do you remember those little Russian dolls that are nested inside each other. Well, that is actually a pretty good visual of what is going on here between these two opposing forces of the flesh and the spirit. Notice the spirit is nested inside the flesh. So when Christ is first presented to you, you are met with the flesh. But we then learn we must eat through the flesh to get to the life blood of the Word. Why? Because just with our human bodies the outtermost layer of flesh is dead. So too with the Word of God. This outtermost layer of the Bibles interpretation is Antichrist the polar opposite of which is Christ which is found within you (Luke 17:21 KJV). Not the easiest thing to explain.


    More confirmation of this duality in scripture can be found in Deu. 30:14-15 which says of the Christ, The Word (John 1, Jesus) is very near you. It is in thy mouth and in thy heart so thou may do it. See I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil...So you see the Word of God is a sharp double edge sword of polarity. Hence why there is so much controversy. But the truth can only be found inside the illusion of duality (I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil I the Lord do all these things, Book of Isaiah)

    2 Cor 3:14 says:
    But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

    Hebrews 10:20 tells us what that vail is
    ...by a new and living way which he has consecrated through the vail that is to say CHRIST FLESH.

    2 Cor. 5:16
    "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

    I have a lot more I could add to that but will let you and anyone else respond first.

    Thanks,
    Paul
     
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  7. AservantofGodandthelordJC

    AservantofGodandthelordJC New Member

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    Anything that seems contradictory in the bible is simply a misinterpretation. God cannot see sin, because it does not exist. Everything is God, so everything technically was created by Him but indirectly evil creates itself, it is blind to God just as God is blind to it. Evil is like a tiny spec of God that has split off and decided to do its own thing. Evil's existence is always temporary, God is eternal.
     
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus as found in the bible.
    If it is a lie you need to show that.

    Again if there is a contradiction or error you need to show them.
     
  9. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    Hey team, cleary this post of mine is going nowhere and I am not really getting my point across very well. And for that I am sorry. I was just trying to warn you.

    I was a die hard Christian for 27 years of my life and have my reasons to doubt it just as you all have every right to believe as you see fit. And I can respect that.

    But let me leave this post with some final thoughts:

    1. 2 Timothy 4:5 asks us to make full proof of our ministry. I don't seem to be able to make full proof that Christianity is a lie but then again no Christian living on the face of this Earth seems to be able to make full proof that it is the truth either.

    2. This means that Christianity is largely based on faith or belief with whatever facts you find to back it up. This in turn is it's fatal weakness I was trying to help you all see before its too late.

    3. But all beliefs are false! - until proven true. Then they are found to be the truth. We know in part and prophecy in part but when perfection comes the imperfect disappear.

    4. The truth as I have described it is coming. And when the explanation is found it will take down every abominable idol in it's path.

    So, I leave you with this:

    Christianity believes in an external savior much like that reflection in the mirror I was trying to get across to you all. The truth is the mystery of the gospel, the mystery of Christ and the mystery of God is that he lies within you and always has from day one of your life. "I knew you before you were born and knit you together in your mothers womb" the Psalms tell us.

    Christianity believes in an external heaven somewhere in the clouds when the Bible clearly says by Christ's own testimony in Luke 17:21 KJV That the kingdom of heaven is within you. Not among you. Not around you. Not upon you. All those things exists around you outside.

    If Christ has been with us from the very beginning inside us patiently waiting to be discovered and is spirit what is Christianity doing worshiping a graven image of a man made God made to look like mortal man and then accepting his holy spirit into your hearts from outside yourself from non other then the prince of the power of the air?

    So who is worshiping who here? Who is it that has the mark of the beast? Who is it that will claim victory over the beast (The Word of God) and his image (Jesus Christ)? Non-Christians.

    Something to think about. Best of luck to you all.
     
  10. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    Let's slow down, and take this piece by piece. You indicate this is the major piece. And, I smile, at what you say here, because the very problem you are encountering you describe perfectly "why it is there". Yet, without seeming conscious knowledge of this.

    So, the Bible is actually full of "contradictions" far more then you could ever know. What to do when one hits a seeming contradiction with someone you trust?

    First and easiest thing to do is simply ask them.

    Obviously, you do not want to go to God with arrogance in your heart.

    Rather, you should go to God, like so, "Dear Lord, whom I have faithfully served all these years, please help me understand this contradiction I have come across".

    An even more humble response would be, "Dear Lord, please help me, I am struggling and sinking beneath the waves. Do not let my light go out in the deep of the waters, where the dead go to sleep. Please tell me how these matters on my heart are not contradictions."

    Or, something like that.

    And, you probably did this. But, what happened?

    Did God simply not respond at His own choosing, for some reason beyond you?

    Or, did God start to explain, but you could no longer retain your faith?

    Regardless, it is unimportant. There are many seeming contradictions in Scripture, which, to me, visualizing, looks like a giant, turning zipper. Like the column of DNA, with a zipper along one side, so Scripture has locks, secrets, closed doors, yet also, hidden keys.

    All through it.

    This is for security.

    This is exactly for security in exactly the same way that the sons of God came down and scattered the populations of the earth, several millenia ago.

    Locks, keys, shut doors that no one can open, open doors no one can shut. Seals.

    Of such construction to be able to keep out every manner of "demon" (spirit), even the spirits of the angels who fell.

    Understand, angels, the "sons of God", were there before the beginning of creation.

    Yet, they fell in plenty before the flood, and have continued to fall ever since. "Giants" is a loaded term. They tend to be a foot plus or so, taller then regular human beings, and highly talented. But, they lose much of their memory when they fall. Still, it is there, somewhere, in their unconscious.

    So, for them, and for others, and for a very wide variety of reasons, there must be locks.

    Likewise, if you look, God often leaves plausibly deniable reasons for any major event or action. Often quite a few. So, each is like an indentation in a lock. Where there are many spokes in the lock. The key has to hit and move and touch every spoke in a lock, just so.

    There are no real contradictions in Scripture. But, there are plenty which are hard, if not impossible, to solve without the key.

    Trust is required for the saints.

    I may attempt to approach your other material later, but if you have anything specific to respond to me, please do so. Even if that means some of the material I skipped over.

    Regards,

    DC
     
  11. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    Well said!

    To your point about contradictions never take sides until they both agree. There are no contradictions in scripture. But the appearance of them is very necessary to get once attention and to stir up in one pure intent and motive to find truth. You might like this link: EMBRACING THE CONTRADICTION

    The master key that unlocks the truth and resolves the contradictions I have been looking for for over 17 years now ever since I discovered the contradictions where there to begin with and had been all along. I just never saw them until 1999. Deu. 30:14-15 puts it this way when it speaks of the Word "See I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil" and later in the Bible it says to one we are the savor of life unto life and to the other death unto death and Romans 8:6 says to be carnally minded is death but to be spiritually minded is life and peace and where the spirit is there is freedom from all the contradictions condemnation and scorn. I have come to learn that true wisdom has two sides as Job said and it is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. It is all about balancing polarity until we have made the two one. Put that together with this verse I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil I the Lord do all these things and we find the key inside the illusion of duality. I would have to add that the only way to reach out and grab that master key is through our minds which look an awful lot like a tree or tree of life for that matter.

    I guess at the end of the day the Bible is a treasure map to all the wonder that lies within us and God's creation is a mirror to help "See" it. God is within us and has been from day one of our lives as indicated in the Psalms where he knit us together in our mothers womb. The kingdom of heaven is within us too (Luke 17:21 KJV) and finally Jesus is also within us as Deu. 30:14 says the word is very near you in your mouth and in your heart and later that it is he who searches the hearts and minds of men.

    It's awesome when you come to realize Jesus, God and Heaven are all within you from day one waiting to be discovered. I would say Christianity myself included for many years have made the mistake of an external God, external heaven in the clouds and external Christ.

    2 Cor. 5:16
    Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

    So much to say but I realize I am rambling and for that I apologize. Take care you guys. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  12. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    Yeah, feel free to CF PM me, I love this kind of stuff.

    One of the few meaningful praises I ever got from anyone, was from a high up there angel, that I was the best "code" reader on the planet.

    My 'day job' is high up there in computer security. And, likewise, a lot of the real work I do is setting up spiritual firewall, spiritual AV, setting up locks, unlocking key matters, and so on.

    I get little pleasure working for myself, so feel free to hit me up with anything whatsoever.

    Your nick and avatar are good stuff, as was your major question.
     
  13. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    Awesome! Thanks a ton. Email me any time at [email protected]. Also I was adding a link to my reply when yours came in so in case you missed this one EMBRACING THE CONTRADICTION

    And here is another that I put together some time ago ebibl.com Keep in mind when I wrote it I had a lot of pain in me. But there might be some gems in there. Looking forward to getting to know you better. I live in Minnesota and I too love this stuff and could talk about it forever.
     
  14. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    In my teens lived in MN, because drug rehab. :p

    (Mid Eighties).

    Thanks for the link, bookmarking to read later.

    Sent you an email from my gmail.

    Regards,

    DatH
     
  15. theoneinsidethezero

    theoneinsidethezero LAMENT - MENTAL

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    That's interesting. But then what do you make of Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)? Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 45:7 - King James Version
     
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