Truth

[Neogaia777]

Only God knows (each individual case), we do not, and when we start thinking we do, we sin...

Best to leave the judging up to God, don't you think...?

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Only God knows each individual case, we do not, and when we start thinking we do, we sin...

Best to leave the judging up to God, don't you think...?

God Bless!

2 Timothy 3:16-17.


...

 

[Rick Otto]

Does works and holiness play a part in salvation?
If they don't then one can conceivably do whatever sin they want and still be saved, right?


...

Hope you enjoy the rest of your evening without me.
You keep pushing your assertions without any regard to what I've actually said. I don't have time for that.

 

[Rick Otto]

great, another synergist vs. monergist thread.

it must be soteriology month.

Welcome to the party, but curb your enthusiasm.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hope you enjoy the rest of your evening without me.
You keep pushing your assertions without any regard to what I've actually said. I don't have time for that.

The explain your belief for me.
How do you view 1 John 1:8?
Do you not believe you will always sin as part of what this verse says?
Do you not believe you are saved without works and holiness and that is just by having a belief on Jesus?
Can such thinking not lead people into treating God's grace as a license to sin?
I believe it can.


...

 

[Neogaia777]

The explain your belief for me.
How do you view 1 John 1:8?
Do you not believe you will always sin as part of what this verse says?
Do you not believe you are saved without works and holiness and that is just by having a belief on Jesus?
Can such thinking not lead people into treating God's grace as a license to sin?
I believe it can.


...

I think 1 John 1:8 means that we should remember back to when we used to sin (more) and think of ourselves a sinners saved by grace, only by being conscious of the fact that your sinner (if you think not you disagree with God, which is a sin)...

Anyway, Only by being conscious of the fact that your a sinner, will allow to rightly divide or correctly discern the word of truth, God's word, the Bible, in the way that God wants you too, which means, your blind, naked, poor (in spirit) and are being deceived....

How do you not fall into the same sin as the Devil, when you do not see it that way, or think yourself sinless...?

God Bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think 1 John 1:8 means that we should remember back to when we used to sin (more) and think of ourselves a sinners saved by grace, only by being conscious of the fact that your sinner (if you think not you disagree with God, which is a sin)...

Anyway, Only by being conscious of the fact that your a sinner, will allow to rightly divide or correctly discern the word of truth, God's word, the Bible, in the way that God wants you too, which means, your blind, naked, poor (in spirit) and are being deceived....

How do you not fall into the same sin as the Devil, when you do not see it that way, or think yourself sinless...?

God Bless!

1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren on not thinking like the gnostics in the fact that they thought that sin did not exist for them. Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. So 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them. Eternal Security proponents believe all present and future sin is paid for. So in a way sin is not something they need to worry about. In a way, they are saying they have no sin because they have a belief on Jesus. 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them, as well. How so? Well, in essence, 1 John 1:8 is saying,

"If we say that we have no sin [when we do sin],
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8).

"If we say that we have no sin [in the sense that sin does not exist for us], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8).

What is the solution to resolve the gnostic way of thinking on sin?

Confess your sin.

For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

In fact, 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know him and do not keep his commandments, we are liar and the truth is not in us.

Now, 1 John 2:4 cannot be true and the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 (that says one is always in sin) cannot also be true.

For 1 Peter 4:1-2 says that the believer can cease from sin and that such a thing can happen in this life time.


...

 

[Neogaia777]

1 John 1:8 is a warning to the brethren on not thinking like the gnostics in the fact that they thought that sin did not exist for them. Christian Scientists today think sin is an illusion. So 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them. Eternal Security proponents believe all present and future sin is paid for. So in a way sin is not something they need to worry about. In a way, they are saying they have no sin because they have a belief on Jesus. 1 John 1:8 would be a warning to them, as well. How so? Well, in essence, 1 John 1:8 is saying,

"If we say that we have no sin [when we do sin],
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8).

"If we say that we have no sin [in the sense that sin does not exist for us], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8).

What is the solution to resolve the gnostic way of thinking on sin?

Confess your sin.

For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

In fact, 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know him and do not keep his commandments, we are liar and the truth is not in us.

Now, 1 John 2:4 cannot be true and the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 (that says one is always in sin) cannot also be true.

For 1 Peter 4:1-2 says that the believer can cease from sin and that such a thing can happen in this life time.


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I guess I'm just not complete yet, but, wouldn't you agree that not sinning at all in this world, is next to impossible...?

I know, I know, "all things, and anything is possible with God", right...? And, "without him, we can do nothing", right...?

And I know how much God likes and enjoys specializing in the impossible or near impossible, I guess I'm just not there yet, I think because I have to believe it is possible before it can ever actually happen... I guess, I just "don't know how" to believe that yet, and that may be preventing me... I do not know how not too yet, I don't know if I would just trade some sin, for other sin... I don't know...?

I just cannot see the way (yet)...

I'll pray about it, K?

God Bless!

Oh, I also have to ask myself the all important question and that is, "why" what would would be a motivation for doing it or wanting to do it, that would not be sinful, also...?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I guess I'm just not complete yet, but, wouldn't you agree that not sinning at all in this world, is next to impossible...?

Jesus said, with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26).
But also not all sin leads to spiritual death (1 John 5:16-17).

I know, I know, "all things, and anything is possible with God", right...? And, "without him, we can do nothing", right...?

Yes. We have to have faith in Him and His Word. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God; And without faith, it is impossible to please Him. Abraham obeyed God in sacrificing his son Isaac and passed God's test of faith.

And I know how much God likes and enjoys specializing in the impossible or near impossible, I guess I'm just not there yet, I think because I have to believe it is possible before it can ever actually happen... I guess, I just "don't know how" to believe that yet, and that may be preventing me... I do not know how not too yet, I don't know if I would just trade some sin, for other sin... I don't know...?

I just cannot see the way (yet)...

I'll pray about it, K?

God Bless!

I am glad you will pray about it.
Jeremiah 33:3 is the one of the best things ever for us to do.
That and employing 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, as well.

Oh, I also have to ask myself the all important question and that is, "why" what would would be a motivation for doing it or wanting to do it, that would not be sinful, also...?

Ensuring your salvation with the Lord, glorifying Jesus and His sacrifice by the life you live, and being a light to others are some of the best reasons not to be sinful.

Read Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 to learn about why Christ gave (sacrificed) Himself for us.


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[Neogaia777]

Jesus said, with God all things are possible (Matthew 19:26).
But also not all sin leads to spiritual death (1 John 5:16-17).



Yes. We have to have faith in Him and His Word. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God; And without faith, it is impossible to please Him. Abraham obeyed God in sacrificing his son Isaac and passed God's test of faith.



I am glad you will pray about it.
Jeremiah 33:3 is the one of the best things ever for us to do.
That and employing 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, as well.



Ensuring your salvation with the Lord, glorifying Jesus and His sacrifice by the life you live, and being a light to others are some of the best reasons not to be sinful.

Read Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14 to learn about why Christ gave (sacrificed) Himself for us.


...

Thanks man...

God Bless!

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

As much as I argue "the truth", I acknowledge that there will be no doctrine test by Peter to get into heaven. There will be people from many different denominations with many different understandings of scripture.

Just like sanctification, the desire to read God's word and learn the meaning of it is beneficial, even if wrong understandings are learned. And, being a Christian is more than just what you know. God judges the heart.

Sanctification is the process to live more like how God would like us to. While we try to live a certain way, we often follow the wrong path. Is our life perfect? No, but God will still take us in.

 

[Open Heart]

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? Or that we can stop sinning in this life. I believe we still sin but our attitude towards sin should change and we should start to sin less.

I'm not sure I see your point. Whether we can loose our salvation (and return to it again) or not, Christ still had to suffer and die to atone for our sins.

I think that as we become more sanctified, our attitude towards sin DOES change and we sins less, and less severely. Nevertheless, God does not remove our free will once we are saved. If we sin little sins too often, our conscience becomes numb. THese little sins are not going to sever our relationship with God. However, once our conscience becomes numb, we are more likely to commit a sin unto death (or mortal sin) which will kill us spiritually.

You should know that the idea of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) has only been around for about 500 years.

On here I've seen arguments regarding salvation and other things go on for pages. Everyone sure their position is the correct one.
Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

If the ONLY thing you use is the Bible, then you are in trouble, because everyone interprets it differently. It results in tens of thousands of different denominations.
To have unity, you must have the authority of the Church in addition to the Bible.

The authority of the Church came before the New Testament. Think for a second: There were no gospels or epistles yet when the Apostles preached the gospel. They relied on the authority that Christ had given them as Apostles: "Whoever listens to you listens to me." Luke 10:16 The Apostles passed on their teaching authority to their successors, the Bishops. It was these Bishops who, later in history, canonized the New Testament. So it is only because of Church Authority that we even have a New Testament in the first place!

The Churches who accept the teaching authority of the Church are called Apostolic. They are the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, and the Orthodox Churches. The churches that reject Church authority and are Bible only are the Protestant denominations and churches.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I am not a new Christian but have some questions. The Gospel as I understand it is: God wants a relationship with us and for us to enter Heaven. But we are sinful and God does not let sin enter Heaven. Luckily God provides us a way out-His son Jesus. Jesus was God in flesh who took the penalty of our sin by his death/ resurrection.

To be saved you must believe Jesus's sacrifice as the only payment for your sins; you can't save yourself. Obedience will not save but obedience naturally comes after being saved. After being regenerated we obey God's commands because we have been saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? Or that we can stop sinning in this life. I believe we still sin but our attitude towards sin should change and we should start to sin less.

On here I've seen arguments regarding salvation and other things go on for pages. Everyone sure their position is the correct one.



Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

When St. Vincent wrote this all Churches were united. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which he speaks of is not a reference to The Church of Rome.


The Vincentian Canon
St. Vincent of Lerins 434AD

"(1) I have continually given the greatest pains and diligence to inquiring, from the greatest possible number of men outstanding in holiness and in doctrine, how I can secure a kind of fixed and, as it were, general and guiding principle for distinguishing the true Catholic Faith from the degraded falsehoods of heresy. And the answer that I receive is always to this effect; that if I wish, or indeed if anyone wishes, to detect the deceits of heretics that arise and to avoid their snares and to keep healthy and sound in a healthy faith, we ought, with the Lord's help, to fortify our faith in a twofold manner, firstly, that is, by the authority of God's Law, then by the tradition of the Catholic Church.

(2) Here, it may be, someone will ask, Since the canon of Scripture is complete, and is in itself abundantly sufficient, what need is there to join to it the interpretation of the Church? The answer is that because of the very depth of Scripture all men do not place one identical interpretation upon it. The statements of the same writer are explained by different men in different ways, so much so that it seems almost possible to extract from it as many opinions as there are men. Novatian expounds in one way, Sabellius in another, Donatus in another, Arius, Eunomius and Macedonius in another, Photinus, Apollinaris and Priscillian in another, Jovinian, Pelagius and Caelestius in another, and latterly Nestorius in another. Therefore, because of the intricacies of error, which is so multiform, there is great need for the laying down of a rule for the exposition of Prophets and Apostles in accordance with the standard of the interpretation of the Church Catholic.

(3) Now in the Catholic Church itself we take the greatest care to hold that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all. That is truly and properly 'Catholic,' as is shown by the very force and meaning of the word, which comprehends everything almost universally. We shall hold to this rule if we follow universality [i.e. oecumenicity], antiquity, and consent. We shall follow universality if we acknowledge that one Faith to be true which the whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity if we in no wise depart from those interpretations which it is clear that our ancestors and fathers proclaimed; consent, if in antiquity itself we keep following the definitions and opinions of all, or certainly nearly all, bishops and doctors alike.

(4) What then will the Catholic Christian do, if a small part of the Church has cut itself off from the communion of the universal Faith? The answer is sure. He will prefer the healthiness of the whole body to the morbid and corrupt limb. But what if some novel contagion try to infect the whole Church, and not merely a tiny part of it? Then he will take care to cleave to antiquity, which cannot now be led astray by any deceit of novelty. What if in antiquity itself two or three men, or it may be a city, or even a whole province be detected in error? Then he will take the greatest care to prefer the decrees of the ancient General Councils, if there are such, to the irresponsible ignorance of a few men. But what if some error arises regarding which nothing of this sort is to be found? Then he must do his best to compare the opinions of the Fathers and inquire their meaning, provided always that, though they belonged to diverse times and places, they yet continued in the faith and communion of the one Catholic Church; and let them be teachers approved and outstanding. And whatever he shall find to have been held, approved and taught, not by one or two only but by all equally and with one consent, openly, frequently, and persistently, let him take this as to be held by him without the slightest hesitation."


Where we find "all the Apostolic Churches" agreeing on a subject we can be assured we are keeping the faith once delivered.

Forgive me...

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

"The faith" is not "my faith". The faith is Christendom, my faith is not in Christianity, it is in God.
You have slipped out of context on this one word.

The faith is not 'Christendom' as an outward proclamation or affiliation. Here, as elsewhere, the word means belief. Faith can refer broadly to the system of beliefs that make it up, such as belief in the gospel, belief God sent Jesus, the assurance of things hoped for, etc.

'ho pistis' - The faith, in Greek, actually strengthens the meaning of faith here by making it objective; it doesn't make it more generic so as to refer to a mere profession or outward illusion of faith.

For example, "They must hold to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience." I Tim 3:9

What is this mystery? A mere profession of faith? Christendom in general? No!

"Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:
He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."

I Tim 3:16 - I Tim 4:1

This great mystery, the gospel, is the faith which some will abandon in exchange for deceptive teachings. Remember, in the original manuscripts there is no 'break' between I Tim 3:16 and I Tim 4:1.

What does it mean in 1 Tim 4:1 that 'some will depart from faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits?'

 

[def]

I am not a new Christian but have some questions. The Gospel as I understand it is: God wants a relationship with us and for us to enter Heaven. But we are sinful and God does not let sin enter Heaven. Luckily God provides us a way out-His son Jesus. Jesus was God in flesh who took the penalty of our sin by his death/ resurrection.

To be saved you must believe Jesus's sacrifice as the only payment for your sins; you can't save yourself. Obedience will not save but obedience naturally comes after being saved. After being regenerated we obey God's commands because we have been saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? Or that we can stop sinning in this life. I believe we still sin but our attitude towards sin should change and we should start to sin less.

On here I've seen arguments regarding salvation and other things go on for pages. Everyone sure their position is the correct one.

Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

Einstein stated that given one hour to save the world, he would spend 55 minutes defining the problem and only 5 minutes finding the solution.

Do you know why people interpret the Bible differently?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you know why people interpret the Bible differently?

Does it matter ?
When they do, they are disobeying YHWH.

 

[Neogaia777]

Einstein stated that given one hour to save the world, he would spend 55 minutes defining the problem and only 5 minutes finding the solution.

Do you know why people interpret the Bible differently?

Cause they do not have the same "big picture" (of scripture)...

God Bless!

 

[James Glover]

This is a huge subject for such a small forum and both sides of the argument can quote scriptures to support their view.
Given what Jesus has done for each one of us, He would not lightly give up on any of us.
When He says, I will never leave you or forsake you. I believe He means what He says.
But, that does not mean that WE won't leave or forsake Him.
I don't know about the rest of you, but prayer, study of the scriptures, support of The Great Commission and loving one another requires decision and action ON MY PART.
Every day I'm faced with the choice of putting God first, or NOT.
It's my choice and my decision.

If I put God out of my life for 6 months and ignore all the promptings to return to Him. I would move deeper and deeper into sin until I would become openly hostile against Him.
If unrepentance continues, so would the descent into a level of evil and depravity that would astonish most unbelievers.
There would be a point of no return where no amount of repentance could rectify the open shame that I would have subjected Christ AND the Holy Spirit to.

God forbid that that should happen to any of us. So, just to be on the safe side, let's embrace this marvellous gift of grace and give it the absolute top priority in our lives and recognise it for the Treasure it truly is and not think,say or do anything that would hinder the work of the Holy Spirit in us and through us.

 

[Noxot]

I think being ship wrecked helps to understand the truth. it's good that God sometimes destroys what we though we knew with the power of his Spirit that then reveals something even greater.

 

[Rick Otto]

Your own post meets your own criteria - slickly (you think) pulling out just those Scriptures that you think support your own idea,
while ignoring the many Scriptures that show otherwise.

Couldn't the same be said about you?