Truth

[AKAP]

Not true at all.

What is the condition of having the seal of God?

Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).

In fact, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 5:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).


...

Jason: I stand by what I said. You have produced a scriptural mess by combining OT and NT verses as if they had the same context for the spirit and sealing one in the spirit. They operated differently in each Testament. You have even managed to mix OT statements cited in the NT as applying to the NT..and you have introduced text that even do not apply to acquiring the spirit of truth in the NT...like circumcision as the OT sign of a seal and applying it to the NT as the same meaning....I really do not want to go through all your verses one by one to convince you that is what you have done in part. I'm really not trying to ignore you but I feel you need to really look at the setting, context and meaning in both the OT and NT.

Thanks

In Christ, always.

 

[Rick Otto]

I am not a new Christian but have some questions. The Gospel as I understand it is: God wants a relationship with us and for us to enter Heaven. But we are sinful and God does not let sin enter Heaven. Luckily God provides us a way out-His son Jesus. Jesus was God in flesh who took the penalty of our sin by his death/ resurrection.

To be saved you must believe Jesus's sacrifice as the only payment for your sins; you can't save yourself. Obedience will not save but obedience naturally comes after being saved. After being regenerated we obey God's commands because we have been saved.

Some believe you can lose your salvation. If that's the case then why did Christ endure one of the worst deaths imaginable? Or that we can stop sinning in this life. I believe we still sin but our attitude towards sin should change and we should start to sin less.

On here I've seen arguments regarding salvation and other things go on for pages. Everyone sure their position is the correct one.



Then how can anyone find out the truth? How can we find out through the word? As a Christian I want to know.

I'm not "Calvinist" completely, but I find "osas" once saved, always saved - to be true. Your sins post-conversion affect one's rewards IN heaven, not your ability to enter.

 

[AKAP]

I'm not "Calvinist" completely, but I find "osas" once saved, always saved - to be true. Your sins post-conversion affect one's rewards IN heaven, not your ability to enter.

I do agree with you. I am still finding out what these rewards will be.in some detail..I seem to fancy myself as being a perpetual analysis type....its exciting to delve in the word is it not?

Bless you

 

[Winken]

Almost truth. Yes. Close but no cigar.


IF God, who is so big, TAKES AWAY OUR FREE WILL, then it is true that we could not lose our salvation after being saved on earth.

There are so many warnings though,
from God, who is so big,
that multitudes who really really really believe they are saved forever, and their fellow deceived ones encourage this false belief,
but who are told "bye bye"
on Judgement Day....

They should have listened to God's Word and to those who warned them ..... they might have made it then.... if they repented....

No way God is going to take away the eternal security of a born-again, Spiritually birthed, Christian.

 

[Winken]

You can not just lump Scriptures together to back any belief and IGNORE OTHERS that say different. All Scripture works together
Explain Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it isimpossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put himto an open shame.

Blessings
FCJ

Clearly a message for those Hebrew folk who had "tasted" salvation by Grace through Faith, then walked away. Hebrews was written to Jews, not Christians.

 

[Winken]

It's not committing sins that is in effect but rather slowly walking away.
We have to Turn From, Walk Away, Give Up On, DENY HIS WAYS to the point the Holy Spirit Will Leave and once that happens the evil one has his place back.

Our enemy the devil is ever working 24/7/365 to get this to happen in every believers life.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Far too many Believers Don't fight, won't fight or think they don't have too.
Far to many believers feel they are smarter then our enemy and he can pull one across them. They are already half way defeated.

Our enemies deception dies not come smelling like sulfer but can come with scriptures, feelings and emotions.

he is a master at what he does and his deception is so camouflaged that most never even grasp it was him.

his deception is tailored to each individual and in most cases knows you better then you do.

This once saved always saved nonsense comes from him just as so many other ignorant religious beliefs the church has accepted and taught for generations.

Fact is this, many begin to think along the deception of the enemy in which all the while he is ever slowly pulling you out and away from the truth.
This is no one's fault but your own.

his plan is to get you out far enough with out you knowing and eventually you turn your back on God.
That was a choice you made so you reap from the consequences of that choice.

Then he follows through and takes you out.
Your fate is set and it's not what you thought.

There is scripture to back everything
Blessings
FCJ

There is abundant scripture to verify OSAS.

 

[Winken]

Unfortunately that's frequently how the Gospel is preached, but that's not the Gospel.

The Gospel is that God loves the world and intends to redeem and rescue it; He does this through Jesus Christ, His Son. By the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus He has destroyed the power of sin and death which holds mankind and creation captive, and delivers us to God.

The point isn't "Heaven", the point is the redemption and healing of creation, because God will one day make all things new. It's not "going to heaven when we die", it's God will raise us up from the dead on the last day. Sin and death are our fallen brokenness, by which we are captive to its tyranny; God loves us and wants to rescue us so that we might live, have life, and yes have life forever with Him. Salvation is not an escape clause, salvation is the divine rescue of the entire world. The Word became flesh, God became man; and in dying and rising God heals our human brokenness and restores us to communion with Him that we might share in His life forever in the future world when He makes all things new.



This places the onus on us rather than on what Christ has done. To say we must do X is to say that we contribute to our salvation; instead Scripture teaches that we are saved by grace alone through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9). This faith isn't believing X, Y, and/or Z; it is the gift of God (see again Ephesians 2:8) which is given to us by God through the Gospel (Romans 10:17).

We are saved not by what we think, do, say, or believe; we are saved by the gracious and kind God who condescends to meet us broken and fallen sinners in the Person of Jesus and rescue us and restore us to Himself.



Yes, but; we are called to walk in the good works prepared before hand for us, as we were created in Christ for good works. This isn't to contribute to our own salvation or to climb up some ladder toward personal holiness. Instead it's because we are invited to serve God by serving our neighbor. This is why no one can say "I love God" and hate their fellow man; the Great Commandment is to love the Lord our God and love our neighbor--the two cannot be separated. If we love Him because He first loved us, then we are to be present in the world loving our neighbor through good works; not that we might boast in them as though they save us, but that our neighbor might benefit and God is glorified, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Not glorify you, because you receive no glory from your good works.



Our salvation is found in Christ alone. If we abandon our salvation which is found alone in Christ, then we abandon our salvation.



Read Romans 7. We are simultaneously saint and sinner; saint because we are born again of God in Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit; sinner because the old man, our flesh, continues to cling to us. Which is why no one can be perfect in this life, it is why we continue to find that we do not do the things we ought to do and we do the things we ought not do--we should not lie, but yet we lie; we should not steal, but yet we steal; we should love, but we frequently do not love. Both intentionally and unintentionally we sin. Which is why we can never cling to our own efforts, strength, or will--but only to Jesus Christ and the hope we have in Him alone.

-CryptoLutheran

Almost a winner! Then this shot the presentation in the foot:

Our salvation is found in Christ alone. If we abandon our salvation which is found alone in Christ, then we abandon our salvation.

He sustains us, not us.

 

[Winken]

Amein..... and until the day we die, we have free will, unless God takes our free will away from us.

Something He will never do to a Christian.

 

[Winken]

@Celticroots. Your post is spot-on.

Celticroots said: ↑
If we aren't saved by believing in Christ's work then what can we do? Why do people say believe? I am not getting this at all.

I personally told God I believed that Jesus was the only way I could be saved that I put my trust in Him and that I firmly believe Him and only He saved me when He died and rose again.

I take Him at his word, not because of any action I took.

 

[Winken]

I'm really worried that I have done it. I'm really worried that I cannot come back

Stop worrying. You're a Christian, you're in.

 

[Winken]

im going to give something here that i REALLLLLLLY want everyone here to read over.. i think that it covers ALL these topics.. and even the entire question here.. totally open to hearing what people have to say about this...

Romans 7:18- 8:16
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation--but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children....

Amen. There is a sinful nature and a Spiritual Nature. Paul describes both, the old flesh, sinful nature we were born with, still raging war against every born-again, Spiritually birthed Christian.

 

[Winken]

In Romans 7:14-24, Paul is talking as a Pharisee before he became a Christian (Recounting his experience in trying to obey the Law of Moses under the false pharisee religion). In Romans 7:14 he says he is carnal and sold under sin, and yet in Romans 8:2, Paul says he is free from sin. So either Paul is speaking from two different perspectives here or there is a contradiction in Scripture.


....

No contradiction! Context! The old sinful nature battled against Paul's born-again nature!

 

[Winken]

Most (and possibly not all) Eternal Security proponents only believe in a half gospel or a milk type only gospel (i.e. The gospel's initial portion that tells them to believe in His death and resurrection - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This is the milk of the Word that the Corinthians could only accept. It was the only message they could bear because they were still yet carnal (See 1 Corinthians 3:2-3). It's why Paul said he came not to know anything among the Corinthians accept Jesus and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2) because they would not be able to bear the second half of the message of the gospel (i.e. the meat of the Word).

The majority of Eternal Security proponents do not believe in the Bible's full or complete gospel (i.e. the meat of the Word). The second half or truth of the gospel is that Christ died so as to redeem us from all iniquity and so as to live holy and be zealous of good works.

Hebrews 5:9
"And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, NKJV

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 “even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Titus 2:14
“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”

Romans 1:16-17 says,
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." NKJV

What is this faith look like?

James 2:17
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

James 2:24
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

James 2:18
“shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”

Hebrews 9:14
“How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”

Titus 3:8
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”

1 Peter 4:1-2
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God

Colossians 1:21-23
21 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”

Colossians 2:6-7
6 "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving."

1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

You yourself say that a saving faith is identified by works; But then you contradict yourself and say that you are not saved by works. It is either one or the other.

The solution: We are saved by God's works both on believing in His death and resurrection for our salvation (i.e. Justification), and we are also saved by God's works done through us (i.e. the Sanctification process). For Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). For it's why the 24 elders had cast down their crowns before Jesus. So no believer can truly pat themselves on the back and look in the mirror and scream, "Hey everybody! Come and see how good I look!" But neither is Jesus's grace a license to turn God's grace into a license for immorality by telling others that they are saved without any works. Because the moment you say that and do not say anything more, then people are going to think they can sin and still be saved (Which is wrong). Because if we were truly not saved by works, then we should not be able to out sin grace. But then the Eternal Security proponent will say that the true believer is changed and will not act like that. Really? I do not remember the last time God's will was over riding any believer at any point in history. Either God completely over rides a believer's will and makes that person His mindless puppet doing God's will 100% or God is leaving man to choose God of His own free will. Granted, that does not mean I do not believe a believer is not born again spiritually and that he has a new heart with new desires, but this also does not eliminate man's free will, either. Man can still choose between the good or the evil. So choose this day in whom you will serve.


…

See Post #64.

 

[Winken]

Obedience comes before salvation for God will not save the disobedient.
Romans 10:16 Paul speaks of obedience unto righteousness. No such thing as one obeying because he already is righteous.

John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him."
1 Peter 2:7 "Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,"

In both above verses, belief is set in contrast to disobeying, therefore believing is obeying. Therefore one must first obey by believing before one can be saved.

Romans 6:17-18, the order of events as Paul puts them:
1) servants of unrighteousness
2) obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
3) then freed from sin/justified

Paul puts obedience BEFORE justification.



Salvation can be lost for God did not extend cheap grace to man where the Christian can commit sin impenitently and still be saved.

Romans 10:8-13, Romans 8:1, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 5:24, John 3:16-17. There is no such thing as "cheap" grace.

 

[Halbhh]

im going to give something here that i REALLLLLLLY want everyone here to read over.. i think that it covers ALL these topics.. and even the entire question here.. totally open to hearing what people have to say about this...

Romans 7:18- 8:16
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation--but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children....

So sweet. I was reading part of this in our class just this morning. It connects perfectly to John chapter 15, which says how to remain in Him, to follow the "law of the spirit".

 

[Winken]

There is no Once Saved Always Saved even if one has come to think they have assurance of it. For the Scriptures in many places teach that a believer can fall away from the faith.

Here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3​

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
  (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).


...

Why do you suppose there is a NEW Testament? You continue to muddle OT scripture with the NT. You continue to post your viewpoint of NT scripture. You continue to contradict scripture; caution: Scripture contradicts you.

 

[Halbhh]

Romans 10:8-13, Romans 8:1, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 5:24, John 3:16-17. There is no such thing as "cheap" grace.

If I may, I bet you'd agree that the verses you cite fit together with the verses he cited. Right?

So, it's not A or B, but A and B.

Or as you have the beginning of in Ephesians 2, that very next verse which is the continuation of that very statement --

8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."


This is how these discussions go. One person quotes some true verses, and another quotes some true verses. Each side should be humble and realize all the verses are true.

For me, finally, it's easier to just read through full books entirely, without doing the talking but just doing the listening. Especially best are the very words of Christ Himself. He even says we must dwell in them. I have found so much help in John chapter 15 lately.

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

I'm not "Calvinist" completely, but I find "osas" once saved, always saved - to be true. Your sins post-conversion affect one's rewards IN heaven, not your ability to enter.

You cannot lose salvation by sinning. However, you can reject faith, and hence cease to hold salvation. By rejecting faith, one returns to slavery to sin and condemnation. 'Once saved, always saved' is shown to be untrue by the many scripture passages that show that people can begin in faith, later reject it. God does not save those apostates, for they no longer believe.

What exactly does "fall away" mean in Heb 6:6?

Some rejected their faith in the past, like Hymenaeus and Alexander. (I Tim 1:19-20) Present believers have the potential to do so. (Heb 6:4-6) And the spirit explicitly says that some will depart from the faith in the future. (I Tim 4:1)
What does it mean in 1 Tim 4:1 that 'some will depart from faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits?'

 

[Rick Otto]

I do agree with you. I am still finding out what these rewards will be.in some detail..I seem to fancy myself as being a perpetual analysis type....its exciting to delve in the word is it not?

Bless you

Yep.
What I figure is that it is better to live under a bridge in heaven than up in a penthouse in hell.
I agree with Calvin's meteorology but part ways with him on sacramentology and ecclesiology, especially in the area of church discipline.

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

Clearly a message for those Hebrew folk who had "tasted" salvation by Grace through Faith, then walked away. Hebrews was written to Jews, not Christians.

Why do you believe Jewish unbelievers could be "made partakers" of the Holy Ghost?

Heb 6:4-6 identifies the audience of the warning as Christians that seek to grow unto maturity (Heb 6:1-2), and the warning is clearly about former Christians who fell away - not mere intellectual unbelievers who were close to believing or faked it. They had seen the light (II Cor 4:6), ate of the heavenly gift (John 6:33), had been made partakers in the Holy Spirit (I Cor 12:13, II Peter 1:4, Eph 3:6, Heb 3:14, Col 1:12, Phil 1:7, Eph 4:4, etc), tasted the goodness of the word of God (Psalm 38:4) shared in spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12:4), and had repented (Acts 2:38) - only believers can do all that.

In Heb 4:6, the word for 'fall away' is 'parapipto.' Parapipto literally means 'to fall from close beside,' that is, to desert something you were once a part of or to apostatize. An unbeliever cannot fall away in this manner, for he never was a part of the body of Christ.
What exactly does "fall away" mean in Heb 6:6?