Discussion Truth is Truth

[Gideons300]

Bro..I agree but for one major factor.
God has awoken many..but not many obey. though he graciously awakes us
Few ..so very few answer the call.
He won't automatically make any one obedient .even Jesus HAD to obey..and he is our supreme example.

Of the parable of the virgins
All are awakened...
But not all got ready.
There is no automatic mode.
We..must of our own will .die to self and obey.

Here is where I see us on different pages, my dear brother.

You said "We must of our own will die to self and obey." It sounds logical, but is it true? In my own testimony, for 38 years I tried to die to self. For 38 years I failed miserably. Oh, I wanted to stop sinning, to serve God and love Him with ALL of my heart, to love others as I loved myself, but in the end, failure followed me again and again.

Then it happened. I simply ran out of methods to try. No more resolutions came to mind that I believed I could keep. No more leaves to turn over. No more theories to try out. I had come to realize that if things stayed where they were, I would die a lust-filled, angry Christian who may have longed to be loving and sweet, patient and kind, who longed to be pure in heart and thought, but who had no clue as to how that could ever come about.

Based upon your statement above, I was hell-bound. Thank God, our Lord intervened. When He appeared to me, now ten years ago, and told me He was pleased with me for my hopeless state, it made ZERO sense. That was until He said these words.

"I knew all along that tou could not walk the walk I asked of you, but you did not yet know it."

I love that word YET. You see, all along, when I hungerered to walk pleasing to Him, I was thinking it was on my shoulders to do so. But how does self crucify self? It was only when I came to have NO strength. and zero hope of dying to self that the revelation came from on high, from the mouth of God himself in a miraculous visitation.

And what was this answer I missed? Most who know my testimony have heard it, but it bears repeating a million times more until it sinks into men's hearts.

It was found in Romans 6. I had never, not one time, by faith reckoned my old nature as already dead. I wad trying ibstead to kill it by my efforts, rather than by faith believing it was already done.

I pray you do not take offense with what I am about to say. In a post of yours above, you stated that if a Christian does not go out and witness, they are in disobedience and abide in death. The truth is that this is nothing more than another requirement piled onto people's shoulders when theyare already laden down with standards they are not fulfilling and who have already given up hope of ever truly walking free of their old nature.

Here is what I am convinced of. If a man or woman who does want to walk pleasing to God in all things, (this IS a requirement) finally accepts it is already done that they are dead to self, that their old man does not need to die but is already past tense, the chains immediately fall off and the prison door keeping us from joyful obedience swings open.

Even if there is no visible evidence, it matters not. God is the one responsible to bring forth the visible evidence, fruits of the Spirit, our sole requirement is to believe His words. Here is truth. If a man or woman solely by faith puts their old nature off and puts on their new nature, God will so fill them with joy that they cannot help but joyfully ( not dutifully) share Jesus with any that listen. And bless God, the fruits begin to grow!

Each one of us has a specific calling as children of God. Are all to be street evangelists healing the sick, casting out demons? No, brother. To say so is to immediately put a man under legalistic restraints, and in the end, it will not lead to life, but to failure.

Listen. We ARE dead. Our old man WAS crucified with Christ. What Christ looks for now is that we agree with Him! Yes, we should all long to be freed from the grip of sin. That is step one, and it cannot be sidestepped. We must HATE our old fleshly, self serving nature. Step two is realizing we cannot succeed in doing so. Step three is the glorious revelation that it is already accomplished and that as we believe it to be true, and meet satan's accusations and temptations with our shields of faith held high that it is a done deal, we begin to see that pure inner seed that dwells inside every one of the elect begin to grow, and miracle of miracles, fruits of the Spirit begin to be seen in us. Trust me, of all who eitness this transformation, the one most astounded is the one besring the fruits.

I cannot even begin to share the joy of seeing patience come forth from me when in the past I was short tempered or would get angry. It is totally humbling to know thst is God in me doing this. I had 38 years to show I could do it, and failed miserably.

We must remember always, we are never called to die to self. We are called to reckon ourselves already dead. One way, self effort, leads to death, the other to life more abundantly and the FREE INDEED that our Lord promised us.

The law demands obedience based upon outward observations. But praise God, under the new covenant, He tells us that He will CAUSE US to walk obediently. And how does He accomplish this? By making us robots? LOL. No, He simply dwells inside us and changes our want-to!

In these final days, God is even now beginning to restore this amazing truth to hungry worn-out hearts, and the church, long slumbering, is about to awake in glorious splendor.

I love you dearly, my brother in the Lord.

Gids

 

[Alithis]

Here is where I see us on different pages, my dear brother.

You said "We must of our own will die to self and obey." It sounds logical, but is it true? In my own testimony, for 38 years I tried to die to self. For 38 years I failed miserably. Oh, I wanted to stop sinning, to serve God and love Him with ALL of my heart, to love others as I loved myself, but in the end, failure followed me again and again.

Then it happened. I simply ran out of methods to try. No more resolutions came to mind that I believed I could keep. No more leaves to turn over. No more theories to try out. I had come to realize that if things stayed where they were, I would die a lust-filled, angry Christian who may have longed to be loving and sweet, patient and kind, who longed to be pure in heart and thought, but who had no clue as to how that could ever come about.

Based upon your statement above, I was hell-bound. Thank God, our Lord intervened. When He appeared to me, now ten years ago, and told me He was pleased with me for my hopeless state, it made ZERO sense. That was until He said these words.

"I knew all along that tou could not walk the walk I asked of you, but you did not yet know it."

I love that word YET. You see, all along, when I hungerered to walk pleasing to Him, I was thinking it was on my shoulders to do so. But how does self crucify self? It was only when I came to have NO strength. and zero hope of dying to self that the revelation came from on high, from the mouth of God himself in a miraculous visitation.

And what was this answer I missed? Most who know my testimony have heard it, but it bears repeating a million times more until it sinks into men's hearts.

It was found in Romans 6. I had never, not one time, by faith reckoned my old nature as already dead. I wad trying ibstead to kill it by my efforts, rather than by faith believing it was already done.

I pray you do not take offense with what I am about to say. In a post of yours above, you stated that if a Christian does not go out and witness, they are in disobedience and abide in death. The truth is that this is nothing more than another requirement piled onto people's shoulders when theyare already laden down with standards they are not fulfilling and who have already given up hope of ever truly walking free of their old nature.

Here is what I am convinced of. If a man or woman who does want to walk pleasing to God in all things, (this IS a requirement) finally accepts it is already done that they are dead to self, that their old man does not need to die but is already past tense, the chains immediately fall off and the prison door keeping us from joyful obedience swings open.

Even if there is no visible evidence, it matters not. God is the one responsible to bring forth the visible evidence, fruits of the Spirit, our sole requirement is to believe His words. Here is truth. If a man or woman solely by faith puts their old nature off and puts on their new nature, God will so fill them with joy that they cannot help but joyfully ( not dutifully) share Jesus with any that listen. And bless God, the fruits begin to grow!

Each one of us has a specific calling as children of God. Are all to be street evangelists healing the sick, casting out demons? No, brother. To say so is to immediately put a man under legalistic restraints, and in the end, it will not lead to life, but to failure.

Listen. We ARE dead. Our old man WAS crucified with Christ. What Christ looks for now is that we agree with Him! Yes, we should all long to be freed from the grip of sin. That is step one, and it cannot be sidestepped. We must HATE our old fleshly, self serving nature. Step two is realizing we cannot succeed in doing so. Step three is the glorious revelation that it is already accomplished and that as we believe it to be true, and meet satan's accusations and temptations with our shields of faith held high that it is a done deal, we begin to see that pure inner seed that dwells inside every one of the elect begin to grow, and miracle of miracles, fruits of the Spirit begin to be seen in us. Trust me, of all who eitness this transformation, the one most astounded is the one besring the fruits.

I cannot even begin to share the joy of seeing patience come forth from me when in the past I was short tempered or would get angry. It is totally humbling to know thst is God in me doing this. I had 38 years to show I could do it, and failed miserably.

We must remember always, we are never called to die to self. We are called to reckon ourselves already dead. One way, self effort, leads to death, the other to life more abundantly and the FREE INDEED that our Lord promised us.

The law demands obedience based upon outward observations. But praise God, under the new covenant, He tells us that He will CAUSE US to walk obediently. And how does He accomplish this? By making us robots? LOL. No, He simply dwells inside us and changes our want-to!

In these final days, God is even now beginning to restore this amazing truth to hungry worn-out hearts, and the church, long slumbering, is about to awake in glorious splendor.

I love you dearly, my brother in the Lord.

Gids

..actually..the moment you speak of..was actually the moment you died to self.. You would still be on the other side of that moment if you did not surrender to it.

 

[Gideons300]

..actually..the moment you speak of..was actually the moment you died to self.. You would still be on the other side of that moment if you did not surrender to it.

I used to believe exactly that, but here is the problem this mindset presents. Is my being dead to self true because I believe it to be true? Or, is it already true and that is why I can believe it?

In the first instance, it is our faith that causes our death to self. If our faith wavers, then following that logic, we resurrect our old nature again and the battle ensues all over again. It led to many months of struggle, unnecessary struggle to get back to the peace and joy of abiding in Him.

But what a joy is was to finally understand that we died with Christ BEFORE we reckoned our old man dead. That is WHY we can believe! If our faith wavers, does that change anything at all as to the fact that we died with Him already, that our old nature is dead and gone? No, it only changes our enjoyment and empowerment that this truth brings.

When I used to believe as you are proposing, and my faith would at times fail, and I would sin again, how I would beat myself up and try to believe again so it would be true again. The end of that road led me right back to trying to believe, trying to "be dead again". I lost my peace totally, andthe struggle started all over again, and so it went until the Lord finally revealed to me the truth. It is because I DIED with Christ as a direct result of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, that I can, even immediately after a slip, not go into panic mode, thinking I have let the evil me out of the bottle. Why? Because I am not dead to self when I believe it. If that is the case, my faith is the foundation I am building on, not what Jesus already accomplished, and that can waver. I am dead to self because we are told we died with Him already. All Christ now asks of us is that we believe it.

Thus, if as I walk on, slowly becoming established in the faith as to my new nature, and like a child learning how to walk I slip up and sin, I can get up and immediately, hold up my shield of faith again tht it is no longer I that live, but Christ in me, and th peace of God returns immediately. It is that FACT of what Christ has already accomplished that supports my faith, not the other way around.

I pray this makes sense to any who read these words. Once one gets it, the up and downness of the walk of faith smooths out and our joy and peace is never ruffled or lost.

Many blessings,

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

..actually..the moment you speak of..was actually the moment you died to self.. You would still be on the other side of that moment if you did not surrender to it.

The Lord has shown me that we are the vigins awaking to righteousness. Yes, a conscious decision is needed to choose God in us over the old us.

But what a joy it is to see that the blessing of the new covenant is that it is on Christ's shoulders to see tht we walk uprightly, that we bare much fruit. Yes, He asksthat we WILL it to be done, that we learn to hate our old self nature and long to be free of it. But we must also understand that choosing to dieto self and dying are two complwtely different things.

Paul said in Romans seven that to will was present with him, but how to perform it, he found not. But Praise God, under the new covenant, God isthe potter, rhe changer, rhe transforming agent. We are to simply yield to Him as lumps of clay, telling Him we want Him to bring us to the point of really dying to self, and acknowledging our impotence in doing so ourselves.

The miracle of the new covenant is that it is now God who causes us both to will AND to do of His good pleasure. He isthe vine and our job issimply to abide in Him by faith, trusting that He will cause usto stop our sinful habits, and that He will fill us with plentiful fruits of the Spirit.

Salvation is His work, from start to finish. It does not require strength on our part, but a tearful confession of our lack and our inability to change us, and make ourselves better Christians. The Lord simply asks of ustwo things.

Yield fully, or at least acknowledge a desire to do so. This is not an act of strength, but an acknowledgment of our weakness and our geeat need to have our minds renewed.

Believe implicitely the promises of our God, for we serve a God that cannot lie.... CANNOT. Praise God forvevermore!

Blessings,

Gids

 

[Alithis]

The Lord has shown me that we are the vigins awaking to righteousness. Yes, a conscious decision is needed to choose God in us over the old us.

But what a joy it is to see that the blessing of the new covenant is that it is on Christ's shoulders to see tht we walk uprightly, that we bare much fruit. Yes, He asksthat we WILL it to be done, that we learn to hate our old self nature and long to be free of it. But we must also understand that choosing to dieto self and dying are two complwtely different things.

Paul said in Romans seven that to will was present with him, but how to perform it, he found not. But Praise God, under the new covenant, God isthe potter, rhe changer, rhe transforming agent. We are to simply yield to Him as lumps of clay, telling Him we want Him to bring us to the point of really dying to self, and acknowledging our impotence in doing so ourselves.

The miracle of the new covenant is that it is now God who causes us both to will AND to do of His good pleasure. He isthe vine and our job issimply to abide in Him by faith, trusting that He will cause usto stop our sinful habits, and that He will fill us with plentiful fruits of the Spirit.

Salvation is His work, from start to finish. It does not require strength on our part, but a tearful confession of our lack and our inability to change us, and make ourselves better Christians. The Lord simply asks of ustwo things.

Yield fully, or at least acknowledge a desire to do so. This is not an act of strength, but an acknowledgment of our weakness and our geeat need to have our minds renewed.

Believe implicitely the promises of our God, for we serve a God that cannot lie.... CANNOT. Praise God forvevermore!

Blessings,

Gids

He has also said not all those virgins will be ready at his coming.
There is a disconnect in how your presenting what your trying to say?
Your walking tightrope on the edge of the hypergrace cliff .

 

[Gideons300]

He has also said not all those virgins will be ready at his coming.
There is a disconnect in how your presenting what your trying to say?
Your walking tightrope on the edge of the hypergrace cliff .

You misunderstand. Right now, the wheat and the tares grow together. They all look somewhat the same on the outside. But ot is what is on the inside that separates them. One has oil....i.e. the indwelling Spirit of God, the others do not.

At the awakening, those with oil are instructed to light their lamps. Remember Gideon? He chose 300 men to destroy an army of 10,000. How? He had them hide burning lamps into clay jars. On the outside, they looked like just common pottery, but at the shout, the oil jars were broken, and the light that had always been inside them burst forth.

It is a perfect picture to us..... of ourselves. We are the earthen vessels. And in the end of this age, which is even now on the horizon, those who are truly the elect, destined from the beginning to walk in white, will by their testimony as to who they really are, burst forth shining the light of God for all to see.

You see, to the elect, there is indeed, as you put it, hyper-grace. Do I share that all in the church will "get it"? Not at all. Some of the virgins were tares. The truth is, right now we all are in the heavenly dressing room, and we have free will to choose for us, our self life, to remain alive and in control, or to willingly offer ourselves up to God and beseech Him to control us and cause us to walk as obedient children. The latter are the elect who, in the end, will not stray for they will hear the voice of the shepherd and follow Him.

How many of the virgins will choose life? According to the scriptures, half will. This may not be an accurate and exact measurement, but suffice it to say, many among us will indeed fall before God and receive by faith what God already bought for us. Our weddings gowns, long left folded neatly on the shelf, will be finally put on as we ready ourselves to go to the wedding feast. And sadly, many among us will resist, and like Lot's wife, look back on their own life, and choose to simply continue on in their religious endeavors, with sin and self rule being allowed to remain. The tares will be exposed for who they are, imposters.

Is there a hard word needed here? Absolutely. We need to be awakened to not only the truth of our new man, but warned as well that holiness, full yieldedness is not an option for us. Soon, we will no longer be able to claim ignorance when it comes to defeating sin and our self nature.

When I was struggling for all those years, what kept me from simply accepting what was being taught a flase grace, that I was forgiven no matter what I did? Two things I saw clearly in scripture and embraced, evn if it left me on the outside looking in.

1) Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

2) Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

No matter how much I tried to keep my continued sinning covered with grace, while still indulging my flesh, I could never flee the truth that I was neither holy nor pure in heart. Before the church awakens to who they are, a lot of brokenness and tears of repentance are going to have to be shed. Faith ill simply be impossibe to those who do not truly long to be free indeed.

At times, the Word must be a hammer, breaking through the hard shell that has developed over our hearts through years of continued willful sin. No one is going to skip this step and in their disobedience, think they can skip merrily into newness of life with no remorse. Coming to hate our self life is unavoidable. The tares however will choke on this, and remain in their sin, unrepentant, claiming grace makes repentance unnecessary. The wheat on the other hand, will in the end, hear His voice and through tears follow where He leads.

I fear the slippery slope is legalism here. His sheep have been scattered over every high hill, led by pastors and ministers who have not shown the flock the path to victory, for they do not even believe it possible themselves. Sheep are by nature followers, and many languish right now even though they are truly the elect, simply because they have had no instruction as to how to walk victoriously over the world, the flesh and the devil.

Shall we add to the weight of demands that they are already unsuccessfully carrying? No, brother, they need to be told the truth, and that truth will undoubtedly first lead them to repentance and then onward to walking in full victory by faith, as they learn how to combine the blood of the lamb with the words of their testimony.

Yes, holy fear is needed, but it must be shared by those who have tears in their eyes, those who know that the real culprit is not us, but satan who has filled our heads with lies and half truths. Any form of harsh legalistic demands, without the gentleness that is Christs nature, will simply be rejected by the multitude. The sheep need hope, not brow beating.

Yes, exhortstion and even rebuke is called for, for we have become stiff necked, abusing grace as an excuse to remain in our self with sin still our master, but if the hearer does not sense tears of love and concern behind the warning, they will simply walk away.

Men came to Jesus and asked Him what they must do to be saved. His answer was short and to the point. Believe on Him whom He has sent. Not believe IN Him. The devils do that. Believing ON Him is far different, for it denotes a full and complete surrender and a trust that Gods goodness is 'gooder' than our badness is bad.

I pray this clarifies.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Alithis]

You misunderstand. Right now, the wheat and the tares grow together. They all look somewhat the same on the outside. But ot is what is on the inside that separates them. One has oil....i.e. the indwelling Spirit of God, the others do not.

At the awakening, those with oil are instructed to light their lamps. Remember Gideon? He chose 300 men to destroy an army of 10,000. How? He had them hide burning lamps into clay jars. On the outside, they looked like just common pottery, but at the shout, the oil jars were broken, and the light that had always been inside them burst forth.

It is a perfect picture to us..... of ourselves. We are the earthen vessels. And in the end of this age, which is even now on the horizon, those who are truly the elect, destined from the beginning to walk in white, will by their testimony as to who they really are, burst forth shining the light of God for all to see.

You see, to the elect, there is indeed, as you put it, hyper-grace. Do I share that all in the church will "get it"? Not at all. Some of the virgins were tares. The truth is, right now we all are in the heavenly dressing room, and we have free will to choose for us, our self life, to remain alive and in control, or to willingly offer ourselves up to God and beseech Him to control us and cause us to walk as obedient children. The latter are the elect who, in the end, will not stray for they will hear the voice of the shepherd and follow Him.

How many of the virgins will choose life? According to the scriptures, half will. This may not be an accurate and exact measurement, but suffice it to say, many among us will indeed fall before God and receive by faith what God already bought for us. Our weddings gowns, long left folded neatly on the shelf, will be finally put on as we ready ourselves to go to the wedding feast. And sadly, many among us will resist, and like Lot's wife, look back on their own life, and choose to simply continue on in their religious endeavors, with sin and self rule being allowed to remain. The tares will be exposed for who they are, imposters.

Is there a hard word needed here? Absolutely. We need to be awakened to not only the truth of our new man, but warned as well that holiness, full yieldedness is not an option for us. Soon, we will no longer be able to claim ignorance when it comes to defeating sin and our self nature.

When I was struggling for all those years, what kept me from simply accepting what was being taught a flase grace, that I was forgiven no matter what I did? Two things I saw clearly in scripture and embraced, evn if it left me on the outside looking in.

1) Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

2) Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

No matter how much I tried to keep my continued sinning covered with grace, while still indulging my flesh, I could never flee the truth that I was neither holy nor pure in heart. Before the church awakens to who they are, a lot of brokenness and tears of repentance are going to have to be shed. Faith ill simply be impossibe to those who do not truly long to be free indeed.

At times, the Word must be a hammer, breaking through the hard shell that has developed over our hearts through years of continued willful sin. No one is going to skip this step and in their disobedience, think they can skip merrily into newness of life with no remorse. Coming to hate our self life is unavoidable. The tares however will choke on this, and remain in their sin, unrepentant, claiming grace makes repentance unnecessary. The wheat on the other hand, will in the end, hear His voice and through tears follow where He leads.

I fear the slippery slope is legalism here. His sheep have been scattered over every high hill, led by pastors and ministers who have not shown the flock the path to victory, for they do not even believe it possible themselves. Sheep are by nature followers, and many languish right now even though they are truly the elect, simply because they have had no instruction as to how to walk victoriously over the world, the flesh and the devil.

Shall we add to the weight of demands that they are already unsuccessfully carrying? No, brother, they need to be told the truth, and that truth will undoubtedly first lead them to repentance and then onward to walking in full victory by faith, as they learn how to combine the blood of the lamb with the words of their testimony.

Yes, holy fear is needed, but it must be shared by those who have tears in their eyes, those who know that the real culprit is not us, but satan who has filled our heads with lies and half truths. Any form of harsh legalistic demands, without the gentleness that is Christs nature, will simply be rejected by the multitude. The sheep need hope, not brow beating.

Yes, exhortstion and even rebuke is called for, for we have become stiff necked, abusing grace as an excuse to remain in our self with sin still our master, but if the hearer does not sense tears of love and concern behind the warning, they will simply walk away.

Men came to Jesus and asked Him what they must do to be saved. His answer was short and to the point. Believe on Him whom He has sent. Not believe IN Him. The devils do that. Believing ON Him is far different, for it denotes a full and complete surrender and a trust that Gods goodness is 'gooder' than our badness is bad.

I pray this clarifies.

Blessings,

Gideon

Gideons Jars ..the earth clay (flesh) must be broken on order that the light of the holy spirit may shine forth

 

[Gideons300]

Gideons Jars ..the earth clay (flesh) must be broken on order that the light of the holy spirit may shine forth

You are again make ng dying to self our work. Thus self control is needed in order to abide and to die to self. But that is the entire reason we see the church in the state that it is. Why? We have the cart before the horse. Self control is a result of abiding , not visa versa.

What happen d on the day of Pentecost? Previously, the 120' including Peter and the other spostles, were found waiting in fear, hiding from the Jews, waiting until Jesus's promise came to them. Rhey were not dewd to self, but full of it, with no witnessing going on.

But afterward? Men could not shut them up. Fear was replaced by boldness. The joy of rhe Lord became their strength. Why? Because out of the abundance of their hearts, their mouthes spoke.

Brother, I know you are excited about your going out and "doing" but you are assuming now thst anyone that does not do is not saved. Instead of showing them how to get filled to overflowing so that their witness is an exuberant, joy-filled one, you have now made it a requirement for salvation. It is very subtle but legalism nonetheless.

When men forst take the step of faith whereby they reckon their old man dead, there is a time when they are being established in the faith. Wavering can happen.

Outwardly, thry might look little different from previously. But the holy seed of their new man is still fully pure, and growing on the inside. As it begins to grow outwardly, as the fruits of the Spirit begin to be manifested, it is then that we see them begin to express Gods will for them.

But to make a one size fits all statement that they must witness or they are lost is presumption that we cannot make. It may be that witnessing is what you are called to do, and I commend you for it. But you must be careful to not assume that all followers of the Lord are called to be as you.

The amazing thing I have found is that once one begins to wslk out his walk in his new nature, because he is now led by God, no one needs to tell him how he shoud act. God speaks and leads him directly.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

Gideons Jars ..the earth clay (flesh) must be broken on order that the light of the holy spirit may shine forth

So you are again saying that it is up to us to die to self and THEN God moves on us. So may I then ask.....what practical steps does one tske to die to self? Until a man has by faith alone put off his old nature by reckoning it already dead, he is still walking with self in charge and self csnnot cast out self.

What a joy it is to finally see that our death to self is already accomplished and it is something we can easily cast off by agreeing with our Lord. Coming to the point we hate our sinful and selfish behavior can be a painful journey. There is no way around brokenness. But that is not dying to self. Why are we broken? Because ultimately, upon seeing our old nature for what it is, filthy rags in the sight of God, we still cannot hate it enough to change. We must BE changed and praise God forevermore, God is both willing and able.

Blessings dear brother,

Gideon

 

[Alithis]

So you are again saying that it is up to us to die to self and THEN God moves on us. So may I then ask.....what practical steps does one tske to die to self? Until a man has by faith alone put off his old nature by reckoning it already dead, he is still walking with self in charge and self csnnot cast out self.

What a joy it is to finally see that our death to self is already accomplished and it is something we can easily cast off by agreeing with our Lord. Coming to the point we hate our sinful and selfish behavior can be a painful journey. There is no way around brokenness. But that is not dying to self. Why are we broken? Because ultimately, upon seeing our old nature for what it is, filthy rags in the sight of God, we still cannot hate it enough to change. We must BE changed and praise God forevermore, God is both willing and able.

Blessings dear brother,

Gideon

This is Already past.. It is repentance ,water baptism ..the foundations of our faith.
Those that continue to be bound by sin have not actually entered salvation yet.
That's not saying they are not saved but they are being led to that point.
You are I were saved at that point .
And at that point the sin that we thought bound us ..bound us no more and walked free.
Realize it or not.
This was the true point of our salvation.
For there is no salvation without true repentance.

That being established We now move on.
And everyday ,now that I'm freed by Grace.. I die to (reckon myself to be dead and behave as it is so) self in order to live in Christ and he in me.

Death to self is as simple as laying down my own flesh based will and desire in order to Do the will of God daily.

Now I don't speak in ambiguities but practicalities .for theories are of little aid to others.
So how does this play out?
A few years back posting on c.f. I did so from a stance of desire to obey God but lacked the practice knowledge of how.

As time went on things occurred as God drew me to seek him.things to lenghty to type in this post. Of sin of freedom of healing of having demons cast out (a traumatic experience) of water baptism of dreams and visions.my eyes being opened to see anew the plain word of God .
Having this died in Christ and these foundations now firmly established We move onto grow.
The meat begins to be our food.
The meat of the word is NOT reading romans and Corinthians lol.

It is the doing of the word..those still only hearing remain in milk.

You use the words “by faith“
The Lord has so increased comprehension of this word to me.
For FAITH is the SUBSTANCE
FAITH is the EVIDENCE .
Faith is a verb..... It is not just a thing we HAVE but it is what we Do because we TRULY believe what Christ has done for us.
And without this responding action in response to Grace..it is impossible to please God.

A man/woman will always ACT on what they truly believe..
Sorrowful so few truly believe the word.
Sure they believe parts of it..But they hold to those parts that are easy and take the wide road. Then they build their own doctrine to appease the rest of the scripture.

Once true repentance is established and we are buried by baptism into Christ and our life is no longer our own..we love on from there not laying those foundations again.

So henceforth death to self is to die daily to the old nature and live in the new. Having been made New in Christ this is now Fully possible.

So when the holy spirit told us to stop blobbing in front of the tv...we died to self Will and did his will.
When he told me to stop downloading movies....we died to self Will and did his will.
And a myriad of other ways of life so worldly..he began to set us apart (make holy) but every step of the way we had to OBEY OBEY OBEY..none of it can occur without our willfull obedience out of love for him.
Just as unambiguous SIN cannot be committed without our Willfull disobedience.

Such leading of the holy spirit continued
(again too long to tell all here) for he wills in us the fathers will .
Then he led us back to the word of God and what is plainly written .so Many feign seeking his will all the while ignori g what is plain before thier eyes..
That God has no greater will for us then his desire to save the lost and that the works he had for us for ordained That we should do them are simply the world of righteousness because righteousness,like love,like faith, is not just somthing you have but it is something we Do.
And if the doing of it is not there then neither is the having of it.
Hearers that are NOT doers are deceived. Not saved.

In the word is the great commission.
With it is the promise of all needs supplied... Matthew ch 6 .
And long story short..so it was that this to we began to act upon because we truly believe him.
For FAITH is the action we take based upon what we truly believe.
And without this action..without faith.it is impossible to ease God.
Yes..death to self daily is an action we choose...by faith.

 

[Gideons300]

This is Already past.. It is repentance ,water baptism ..the foundations of our faith.
Those that continue to be bound by sin have not actually entered salvation yet.
That's not saying they are not saved but they are being led to that point.
You are I were saved at that point .
And at that point the sin that we thought bound us ..bound us no more and walked free.
Realize it or not.
This was the true point of our salvation.
For there is no salvation without true repentance.

That being established We now move on.
And everyday ,now that I'm freed by Grace.. I die to (reckon myself to be dead and behave as it is so) self in order to live in Christ and he in me.

Death to self is as simple as laying down my own flesh based will and desire in order to Do the will of God daily.

Now I don't speak in ambiguities but practicalities .for theories are of little aid to others.
So how does this play out?
A few years back posting on c.f. I did so from a stance of desire to obey God but lacked the practice knowledge of how.

As time went on things occurred as God drew me to seek him.things to lenghty to type in this post. Of sin of freedom of healing of having demons cast out (a traumatic experience) of water baptism of dreams and visions.my eyes being opened to see anew the plain word of God .
Having this died in Christ and these foundations now firmly established We move onto grow.
The meat begins to be our food.
The meat of the word is NOT reading romans and Corinthians lol.

It is the doing of the word..those still only hearing remain in milk.

You use the words “by faith“
The Lord has so increased comprehension of this word to me.
For FAITH is the SUBSTANCE
FAITH is the EVIDENCE .
Faith is a verb..... It is not just a thing we HAVE but it is what we Do because we TRULY believe what Christ has done for us.
And without this responding action in response to Grace..it is impossible to please God.

A man/woman will always ACT on what they truly believe..
Sorrowful so few truly believe the word.
Sure they believe parts of it..But they hold to those parts that are easy and take the wide road. Then they build their own doctrine to appease the rest of the scripture.

Once true repentance is established and we are buried by baptism into Christ and our life is no longer our own..we love on from there not laying those foundations again.

So henceforth death to self is to die daily to the old nature and live in the new. Having been made New in Christ this is now Fully possible.

So when the holy spirit told us to stop blobbing in front of the tv...we died to self Will and did his will.
When he told me to stop downloading movies....we died to self Will and did his will.
And a myriad of other ways of life so worldly..he began to set us apart (make holy) but every step of the way we had to OBEY OBEY OBEY..none of it can occur without our willfull obedience out of love for him.
Just as unambiguous SIN cannot be committed without our Willfull disobedience.

Such leading of the holy spirit continued
(again too long to tell all here) for he wills in us the fathers will .
Then he led us back to the word of God and what is plainly written .so Many feign seeking his will all the while ignori g what is plain before thier eyes..
That God has no greater will for us then his desire to save the lost and that the works he had for us for ordained That we should do them are simply the world of righteousness because righteousness,like love,like faith, is not just somthing you have but it is something we Do.
And if the doing of it is not there then neither is the having of it.
Hearers that are NOT doers are deceived. Not saved.

In the word is the great commission.
With it is the promise of all needs supplied... Matthew ch 6 .
And long story short..so it was that this to we began to act upon because we truly believe him.
For FAITH is the action we take based upon what we truly believe.
And without this action..without faith.it is impossible to ease God.
Yes..death to self daily is an action we choose...by faith.

For many, you are correct, repentance..... brokenness... these are needed to truly be able to exercise faith in what Christ tells us and fully enter salvation.

But there will be a generation of Christians, and I fully believe that we are that generation, that will see that order flip-flopped. Where do find this in scripture? In the chapter I think holds answers for us where up till now we did't even have the questions, LOL.

This amazing chapter is Ezekiel 36 and if we come to understand what is being told us, blessings we cannot yet even imagine await.

There are two main places in the Old Testament that talk of the new covenant to come. One is Jeremiah 31. The other, Ezekiel 36. Here God describes in His own words exactly what the full benefits of this covenant are. An interpreter is not needed. He is as plain as day.

Some of these we are well aware of, but praise God, there is more, and up till now, the vast majority of the church has been blinded by the enemy so that they will not walk in the new covenant's fullness.

As this post is in response to the order of repentance and salvation, for brevity, I will simply share that the promise we have missed is that He will give us.... are you ready? ..... obedient natures. Obedience, the cornerstone of the law, has become to most of us the cornerstone of the new as well Yet who among us truly obeys? Do we love God with ALL of our hearts? C'mon, if we can't be painfully honest here, what is the point? Do we love others as we love ourselves? Is there any need to even examine this one? We try.... well, sort of...but no, we are NOT obeying. Is this not really the truth? You bet it is.

But praise God, He tells us in this chapter that under this new covenant, He will eliminate the one thing that flawed the old covenant. And what was that? He will finally fix the obedience problem. And how exactly will He do this? Listen. He tells us as plainly as can be that He will CAUSE US to walk as fully obedient children. Let that sink in, then start shouting.

Ok, sorry for that detour but that is simply too good to pass up. Ok, so after all this, this description of the fullness of what this new covenant will accomplish for us.... IN us.....the tone changes. Gird your loons. This is going to hurt or ruffle some feathers.

He tells His people..... us..... that we have blasphemed His holy name wherever we have gone. Ouch. People in the world have been turned away from the Lord because of our hypocrisy, our half-heartedness, our compromise.... yes, our disobedience. We are those who have a form of godliness, but our very lives have up till now denoed the power of it to set us free indeed.

But in the last days, His people are going to be awakened, supernaturally. Then God says something unusual. He says that it will be AFTER we are awakened and light our lamps, only then will we look back on our previous 'Christian' lives and be filled with shame for trying to pass them off to the world as if we were walking in God's will. Yes, repentance, full broken hearted repentance will come AFTER our awakening and being blessed with obedient natures, not before.

How hard we work at evangelizing the world, and how little the progress. Most have just settled in for the long haul, one Sunday service after another, visionless, passionless, having little if any burden for the lost. But a revival is coming, and we will be a part of it. Here is what God promises:

"... and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall be sanctified (made holy) IN you before their very eyes."

There is a lost and confused, lied to world out there, and miltitides are looking for the real God. They are not looking for a church with great music, or with awesome programs for the kids. They are looking for a way to get satan off their backs and out of their hearts. They are hungering for FREE INDEED and we have given them religion in its place. Is it any wonder we are looked upon as hypocrites? In this, the children of darkness are wiser than the children of light. Whodathunkit?

But even with the mess we have made of things, even with our shallow, unloving, compromising, hypocritical lives, our God STILL plans on using us as a conduit for the final harvest.That is how deep His love is for us.

How often our repentance is for specific acts. How I hated my lust. How I longed to be free of it. But you know what? Even if I had been able to conquor it, I still would have been a man ruled by his fleshly self loving nature. There is nothing wrong with shallow repentance. It is a good place to start. But once God plants us on the highway OF holiness, all of a sudden our repentance will take on a whole new light. Shame will replace our smugness, and true brokeness will finally become the prepared ground for real faith to sprout and grow in. And what growth it will be!

In the book of Acts, men would exclaim of those in the early church... "Behold how they love one another!"
You know, I have been a Christian for now almost five decades, and in all rhat time, not once did I ever hear any man utter that about us. But praise God, that is about to change. Here is what those doubters in the world, those who mocked our hypocrisy, will say after God ushers us into the fullness of His covenant amd plants us..... despite ourselves.... on His highway of holiness.

"Look! That which once bore only briars and thorns has become again like the garden of Eden!"

At the end of this amazing chapter, God sums up what His real purpose is for our salvation, our liberation, our walking in His glorious FREE INDEED.

"I shall yet be inquired of by my people Israel to DO IT FOR THEM."

Brother, our salvation is ultimately ALL God, start to finish. We are simply asked to look to Him with all we can muster within us, and even that is so often imperfect. The question we must ask ourselves is this. Is the goodness of God stronger than the badness that has ruled over us for as long as we can remember?

We must be careful not to stress too much what WE need to do to truly be saved. We need to look deeper and ask what God needs to do to fix us! Ultimately, we must remember the Jews in the wilderness bitten by snakes. No matter what they did to try to remedy their desperate situation, still only suffering and death followed. They are our example. And just as the brazen serpent was lifted up on a pole, so that any who looked away from themselves and onto the serpent found sweet relief, so too, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, was lifted up. Our job? To look away from us for our solution and to cast ourselves on the rock who alone cn save us, fre us and make us true overcomers.

Let us never forget. It is HIS job TO DO IT FOR US, not ours. Yes, we cannot be casual about this. We must long for freedom from our disobedient natures. Anything less is a form of grace that is not grace at sll. It is lasciviousness, a license to continue sinning..But for the hungry, He is about to stretch our definition of grace to a whole new level, and I for one cannot wait.

Even if we disagree a bit in a few details, dear brother, I love you unwaveringly. May He bless and lead you....and me! .....into all truth so that we can reflect His amazing glory to a world desperately needing a Savior that works, no matter how messed up the life is of the one seeking relief. How blessed we are to know that we have Him!

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Farine]

I'm still praying over and considering what each of you, @Alithis and @Gideon300, have written. I'm not ready yet to put my own views out there. The main thing is that Jesus is Savior--anyone who gives Jesus an valid opportunity to save him or her will be saved. God wants to save all humanity if humanity will permit it. The details of what 'save' and 'valid opportunity' mean might be worth discussing in another thread.

Today's topic: Don't Be Dumb.

Ya'd think no one needs to be told this. There is a story to go along with the theme. So earlier I posted that we had two house guests that were homeless. In meeting needs, there was opportunity to minister spiritually to them as well. God knows the end of the that part of things. Faith is the substance of things hoped for--so I am believing that eternal value was ultimately distributed even though that's not what is evident as of this post.

What was dumb? One of the house guests refused to believe he could be saved. Said too much had happened. He was twisted, terrible, beyond salvation. Damned. Well, then he went off to prove it. We safely disengaged from him. He's not in our house any more. If you are reading this as a praying person, pray more angels attend to us.

There will be a queue forming to tell me along with neighbors and police that I was dumb. Dumb for letting anyone in the house. Dumb for believing that someone who was homeless could be anything more. If that finally breaks the silence on this thread past the contributions of GIdeon and Alithis.. that has some merit. I'm sworn in that I will never do this again. It's miserable. Plus, I don't drive and usually take public transportation. Right now I can't walk, bicycle, bus or do anything outside the house for some unknown period of time.

Then there's the other party of this couple. We realized it was a domestic violence situation and got her into a hotel Wed and Thurs night of last week. Guess who let her abuser into her hotel room. Dumb. Now she's about to enter a 28 day Rehab facility tomorrow. You can pray that she stays strong. He threatened to kill her yesterday morning. I"m clipping out a lot of details. You get the idea, though. Who would let an abusive person into one's refuge especially after being told NOT TO DO IT by the person who secured the hotel room.

People are often dumb. Hate to say it. My mother in law has dementia. There's a continuous mill of behavior choices that baffle the working mind. AGain, I'll spare you the details. If you have a functioning emotional base.. if your mind works well --praise GOD! You are in the minority it seems.

Everyone is telling me I am getting an education. Yup. If you are reading this, please don't forget to believe the promises of GOD. WHat is keeping us safe in this period of time is the help of GOD .. including Romans 8:28.. All things work out for good.. even dumb things like this...

 

[Farine]

Now go and sin no more...

John 8:10-12 NIV

Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,”Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”​

Don't get me wrong. Grace is amazing. God's love is deep and wide and broad.
Isaiah 50:1-8 The Message

Look! Listen!
God’s arm is not amputated—he can still save. God’s ears are not stopped up—he can still hear. There’s nothing wrong with God; the wrong is in you. Your wrongheaded lives caused the split between you and God. Your sins got between you so that he doesn’t hear. Your hands are drenched in blood, your fingers dripping with guilt, Your lips smeared with lies your tongue swollen from muttering obscenities.​

There's a name and a face now attached to this verse for me. I've met someone who personifies these passages. The message that God sent me to him was to accept grace--that Jesus had died for his sins. No problem with that. But.. he DID have a problem leaving his life of sin.

Here's where a truth-teller has a problem. You have to tell the whole thing. Paul puts it this way. 2 Corinthians 6: 1-2 NIV

As God’s co-workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. For he says,
“In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you. “ I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.

Oh yeah, it's possible to do that. Receive God's grace in vain. Sobering isn't it. What truth-teller wants to open that can of worms? It's terrible to think about.

Ok, you're an air breather. The air is RIGHT.. RIGHT up there. You can see it. Just a couple of strokes of your arms, just a small kick of your legs and you can get a huge gulp of air. All you need. Tons and tons of it. THat's the offer of grace.

But people who are deceived don't respond to the message of grace with their lives. They mentally file away the fact that there is air nearby. They are still missing this essential element. They are still underwater. Their lives start to spasm from lack of grace.

CHOICE is not worth dying for. To be 'FREE' as the world defines it.. is like staying underwater when you need to breathe. It's bad enough that one guy is convulsing in sin having been offered the life changing, grace of God. It's possible to know ABOUT Jesus.. and not let Jesus into your inner space to set your soul right.

 

[Farine]

The Flocking Instinct.

Ezekiel 34:11-12 NIV
“‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep.

Psalm 100:3 NIV
Know that the Lord is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture

John 10:11 NIV
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

This desire to be in agreement with the majority is very strong. If one is not careful, it can overwrite the still, small voice, conscience, Bible truth and even past [bad] experiences.

1 Corinthians 2:13-16 NIV
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness,and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Herein lies the problem. There are, by percentage, only some who have the mind of Christ, who are people with the Spirit. If you seek to merge your understanding with the mass of humanity, you will discover the reason why God called humanity--sheep.

So what will you do? Will you submerge your revelation and insight in order to fit in? Will you be quiet when the majority are wrong? It's easy. And honestly, getting into pointless controversy is not advised. But sometimes, being that irksome dissenting position emboldens someone else to ask that pivotal question in their own mind. WHY AM I DOING THIS?

The times are evil. If you go with the majority in a shocking number of cases, you will be led the wrong direction. Are you brave enough to trust that God's Spirit is sufficient? I have an 18 year old daughter and a 16 year old. Most of the parenting is behind us.. they are running well. It is important to do the right thing before them. If I expect them to dissent from negative positions their peers are taking, what about me? We can do this--we can pick who we are led by. You are Spirit.. You have a Soul. You live in a Body. Choose spirit over what you think.. what you feel. what you desire. Be spirit.

 

[Alithis]

You misunderstand. Right now, the wheat and the tares grow together. They all look somewhat the same on the outside. But ot is what is on the inside that separates them. One has oil....i.e. the indwelling Spirit of God, the others do not.

At the awakening, those with oil are instructed to light their lamps. Remember Gideon? He chose 300 men to destroy an army of 10,000. How? He had them hide burning lamps into clay jars. On the outside, they looked like just common pottery, but at the shout, the oil jars were broken, and the light that had always been inside them burst forth.

It is a perfect picture to us..... of ourselves. We are the earthen vessels. And in the end of this age, which is even now on the horizon, those who are truly the elect, destined from the beginning to walk in white, will by their testimony as to who they really are, burst forth shining the light of God for all to see.

You see, to the elect, there is indeed, as you put it, hyper-grace. Do I share that all in the church will "get it"? Not at all. Some of the virgins were tares. The truth is, right now we all are in the heavenly dressing room, and we have free will to choose for us, our self life, to remain alive and in control, or to willingly offer ourselves up to God and beseech Him to control us and cause us to walk as obedient children. The latter are the elect who, in the end, will not stray for they will hear the voice of the shepherd and follow Him.

How many of the virgins will choose life? According to the scriptures, half will. This may not be an accurate and exact measurement, but suffice it to say, many among us will indeed fall before God and receive by faith what God already bought for us. Our weddings gowns, long left folded neatly on the shelf, will be finally put on as we ready ourselves to go to the wedding feast. And sadly, many among us will resist, and like Lot's wife, look back on their own life, and choose to simply continue on in their religious endeavors, with sin and self rule being allowed to remain. The tares will be exposed for who they are, imposters.

Is there a hard word needed here? Absolutely. We need to be awakened to not only the truth of our new man, but warned as well that holiness, full yieldedness is not an option for us. Soon, we will no longer be able to claim ignorance when it comes to defeating sin and our self nature.

When I was struggling for all those years, what kept me from simply accepting what was being taught a flase grace, that I was forgiven no matter what I did? Two things I saw clearly in scripture and embraced, evn if it left me on the outside looking in.

1) Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

2) Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

No matter how much I tried to keep my continued sinning covered with grace, while still indulging my flesh, I could never flee the truth that I was neither holy nor pure in heart. Before the church awakens to who they are, a lot of brokenness and tears of repentance are going to have to be shed. Faith ill simply be impossibe to those who do not truly long to be free indeed.

At times, the Word must be a hammer, breaking through the hard shell that has developed over our hearts through years of continued willful sin. No one is going to skip this step and in their disobedience, think they can skip merrily into newness of life with no remorse. Coming to hate our self life is unavoidable. The tares however will choke on this, and remain in their sin, unrepentant, claiming grace makes repentance unnecessary. The wheat on the other hand, will in the end, hear His voice and through tears follow where He leads.

I fear the slippery slope is legalism here. His sheep have been scattered over every high hill, led by pastors and ministers who have not shown the flock the path to victory, for they do not even believe it possible themselves. Sheep are by nature followers, and many languish right now even though they are truly the elect, simply because they have had no instruction as to how to walk victoriously over the world, the flesh and the devil.

Shall we add to the weight of demands that they are already unsuccessfully carrying? No, brother, they need to be told the truth, and that truth will undoubtedly first lead them to repentance and then onward to walking in full victory by faith, as they learn how to combine the blood of the lamb with the words of their testimony.

Yes, holy fear is needed, but it must be shared by those who have tears in their eyes, those who know that the real culprit is not us, but satan who has filled our heads with lies and half truths. Any form of harsh legalistic demands, without the gentleness that is Christs nature, will simply be rejected by the multitude. The sheep need hope, not brow beating.

Yes, exhortstion and even rebuke is called for, for we have become stiff necked, abusing grace as an excuse to remain in our self with sin still our master, but if the hearer does not sense tears of love and concern behind the warning, they will simply walk away.

Men came to Jesus and asked Him what they must do to be saved. His answer was short and to the point. Believe on Him whom He has sent. Not believe IN Him. The devils do that. Believing ON Him is far different, for it denotes a full and complete surrender and a trust that Gods goodness is 'gooder' than our badness is bad.

I pray this clarifies.

Blessings,

Gideon

Due to where I'm at and what's going on ..I havnt read all this post.
But the first few lines cautioned.
No..the 5 foolish virgins are not tares.
Theres nothing in the parable that allows for that premise .

 

[Gideons300]

May I ask you why you feel this way? Was the door closed to them when they tried to enter? Yes. Did they make heaven or miss it? The wheat is the same thing as the sheep. They WILL hear the master's voice and follow.

If a soul does not make heaven, that would then be a sheep who did not follow after God. Of course the tares are the five foolish virgins. What possible explanation could rhere be otherwise?

What we fail to consider is that today, roght now, no one KNOWS they are saved. Why? Because sheep endure to the end. We think we are saved, we feel saved, we cry during worship, but the key question is following Him to the very end. That is why we must tske heed, walk circumspectly, be vigilant, and follow close after our Lord. Self confidence is our enemy.

If in the end, we deny God, were we once wheat and then turned into tares? No, we would have been deceived tares all along.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Farine]

Hello @Alithis and @Gideons300

I read your posts. There are a few Bible verses that I'd like to add to this.

Matthew 21:28-32 NIV

What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
“‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
“Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.​

Here we have a fascinating picture of sinners getting saved with confirmation from Jesus, the authority of who enters Heaven. So the worst sinners as that generation categorized it were able to enter. I want to add another verse to this.

Revelation 7:9-10 NIV

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”​

And one more verse... Matthew 19:25-26 NIV

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”​

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

There are a lot more verses I could throw in, but three is a good place to start. From the Bible, the source of Truth we are all agreed upon, there are different facets to consider.

It is possible for long-standing sinners to be reconciled to God.
Ultimately, there are many people are in Heaven celebrating God and their salvation.
Salvation must involve God's participation.

You can go beyond these three conclusion of course. With just these three conclusions, one must go back to your own conclusions. If the conditions of salvation are so rigorous that hardly anyone is saved, then how is Revelation 7:9-10 accurate? If salvation is strictly determined on man's choice to surrender, then why would Jesus say 'With man this is impossible?"

Iron does indeed sharpen iron. I will be also bringing new topics to the discussion. Hopefully, you will both join me on those topics as well.
Farine

 

[Gideons300]

Hello @Alithis and @Gideons300

I read your posts. There are a few Bible verses that I'd like to add to this.

Matthew 21:28-32 NIV

What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
“‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
“Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.​

Here we have a fascinating picture of sinners getting saved with confirmation from Jesus, the authority of who enters Heaven. So the worst sinners as that generation categorized it were able to enter. I want to add another verse to this.

Revelation 7:9-10 NIV

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”​

And one more verse... Matthew 19:25-26 NIV

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”​

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

There are a lot more verses I could throw in, but three is a good place to start. From the Bible, the source of Truth we are all agreed upon, there are different facets to consider.

It is possible for long-standing sinners to be reconciled to God.
Ultimately, there are many people are in Heaven celebrating God and their salvation.
Salvation must involve God's participation.

You can go beyond these three conclusion of course. With just these three conclusions, one must go back to your own conclusions. If the conditions of salvation are so rigorous that hardly anyone is saved, then how is Revelation 7:9-10 accurate? If salvation is strictly determined on man's choice to surrender, then why would Jesus say 'With man this is impossible?"

Iron does indeed sharpen iron. I will be also bringing new topics to the discussion. Hopefully, you will both join me on those topics as well.
Farine

It brings to my mind when Elijah was put to flight and found bemoaning his state to God that the Lord told him that he had 7000 others who had not bowed the knee to Baal.

Yes there will be multitudes entering the narrow gate before it is all over, but let us make no mistake, between us and then is a whole lot of changing that must take place. He will not come back for a complacent, compromised, lukewarm church divided into 500 subsections of disagreement, Thank God the one doing the changing, the potter over our metamorphosis is the Lord God Himself, and the church is about to not only equal the church we read about in Acts. It will SURPASS it.

I know I share a lot of stuff from Ezekiel 36 but it is so spot on to our generation, that it needs to be mentioned.
When God awakens all the virgins, what task are they given? To go do this work, or that?

No, their single task was to light their lamp, to begin to truly abide in Christ and have Him dwell... remain..... in their inner being. His job is to fill us so full... to the brim and then some.... so that we cannot help but share it, and bear fruit... MUCH fruit. We will simply not be able to help but shine forth before men, so that they come to US to find out what we possess that they do not. And the answer will not be what we possess, but who possesses us!

Do we remember what we were told in the word. Either make the tree good or make it evil? Our job is not to bear fruit. That comes from the lifesap flowing of the vine itself.

So what does this mean? What do we do to "light our lamps"? How do we go about "making our tree good"?
Is it some difficult work we must do to prove to God our being worthy of Heaven? Must we muster all our self control in order for God to bless us and make fruit laden saints?

Silly us. That is the old man logic we have so become used to. This is what we sheep have been taught, a teaching that has made us weak, living defeated lives that do not glorify the Lord at all.

I hope we are all at least close to the point we are slowly realizing that if it on our shoulders to subdue our flesh, to defeat our persistant sins and to "walk in holiness before Him all the days of our lives", then, well, we are in deep poop. I also hope we have resisted the temptation to lower the call for walking before the Lord in purity

No, it is not a "work" we must perform, Nevertheless, there is one first step that must be done before we begin to witness for ourselves the amazing transformation,
God promises to do in us. What must be done? We must escape the grip of our old nature and be clothed with the wedding garments God has provided us.

And some may ask again.... "OK, but HOW??" I certainly understand their apprehension and confusion. If we have been followers of the Lord for years, some of us here even decades, and STILL we wrestle (and mostly unsuccessfully) with our flesh, trying to "die to self", what hope do we have of ever succeeding in making our tree good? How can we shine forth as light when darkness still occupies a portion of our hearts? Even this first step seems daunting, if not impossible.

I have likened this predicament we find ourselves in to us being miners of gold, and every day we trudge over and around the rugged boulders strewn along the creek bed floor, always getting in our way, always difficult to traverse, as we try to pan for an occasional nugget so that we can at least keep our heads above water.

And then one day as we labor, we fall and in our fall, we accidently chip off the exterior of one of those accursed boulders, and there it is... gold. The very thing we thought was hiding success from us was there in front of us the whole time, simply waiting for us to discover it.

But before I go on, lest someone thinks I have somehow aligned myself with the hypergrace camp, a word of warning is due here. Those same boulders of gold that we are offered to fall upon so that we might rise as victors over the world, the flesh and the devil? They can also fall on us and grind us to powder. The trees that bore no fruit were gathered together as waste and burned. The virgins who had lamps but refused to light them had the door to heaven shut in their face.


Guys, escaping the prison of Romans 7 should be on the heart of every believer if we find it to be our experience. If we have gotten so comfortable here with our lips praising Jesus and yet secret sin still ruling over us, with self still ruling the roost, with no remorse, no repentance, with the convicting still small voice of the Holy Spirit long ago choked out, then a caveat must be mentioned here. We are entering the valley of decision, and there will be no more wall to straddle, cherry picking the best of both good and evil. There will no longer be tolerated a grace that allows us to sin unrepentedly. The fork in the road is fast approaching. What must we do? At all costs..... choose life.

Look, guys. It is totally normal for each one of us to pass through Romans 7, but that is NOT our home, our inheritance. We have all been destined for Romas 8, glory to God. Getting comfortable in Romans 7 will lead to hardened hearts, not hearts set free indeed. If we have carved out an acceptable existance with the tentacles of sin still wrapped around us and the stink of our fleshliness a part of our daily lives, thinking it quite normal to walk both in grace and in unrepented of sin, then it is time to awake from our slumber. We have all been taught this, have we not? We have been taught wrong. Somehow the gospel has been twisted to be the excuser for our sin, rather than the deliverer from it. So if you who read this have been taught that this is the very purpose of. grace.... that we do not need to fear letting sin still control us because all is good anyway, wake up. This is cursed ground. Great danger lies here.

But as the light in these last times grows, true Christians will find their longing ever increasing to BE light, to BE good trees, and praise the Lord forevermore, He will show them the easy yoke, the FREE INDEED He has promised us. Obedience IS our birthright IF we walk in ourcnew nature and give no plac pe to the devil any longer in our thinking.

"And the HOW, Gideon?? HOW?" We simply are asked to believe that the old us does not need killing. Instead we desperately need to arm ourselves with the truth that the old us is..... and has been since the day of our conversion.... DEAD. We are not in the flesh any longer but in the Spirit. We may have fleshly bodies, but who we are at our core? We are new creatures, and we can put them on by simply making them our testimony. We owe the flesh NOTHING. Will we believe it? God has said that two cannot walk together unless they be agreed. It is high time we agree with our God, amen?

Trust me, once we awaken to this truth, no one will have to tell us to go witness. Can a one gallon bucket be filled with five gallons of water and not overflow onto others around us? The fruits we have unsuccessfully sought after for so long are about to be manifested through us. And who will be the most amazed at our spirtual transformation? US. For we will finally "get it". They are the work of the potter, not us. And what a master potter He is. All He asks of us is to yield in weakness, admit we need help, and.......ASK.

Blessings,
Gideon

 

[Alithis]

Iv not replied `here` much because it's too much off the course of the nature of the thread.
There remains a disconnect between what your saying and the hard cold reality of obedience.
Obedience comes from a changed heart.
But it still requires Us .
The Lord Jesus himself had to obey
In order to fulfil the fathers will.
He had to physically rise up ..walk and Do what the father willed as he was led of the Holy Spirit.
Had he not done so salvation for us would not be made Now available .

There is no auto pilot mode when it comes to obedience.
We die daily ..why? Because spiritually we have died (to the flesh in Christ by baptism ) And it is Christ that lives in us.
It is now our choice to abide in him and Do as he leads.

You mentioned in a post we are not all are called to go heal the sick ..preach the gospel etc. this is incorrect. It is the ministry of reconciliation .
It is given to ALL believers .bar none.

It is unavoidable.

 

[Alithis]

Here we have a fascinating picture of sinners getting saved with confirmation from Jesus, the authority of who enters Heaven. So the worst sinners as that generation categorized it were able to enter. I want to add another verse to this.

Indeed..
And the others warned because seeing this they themselves did not “repent and believe“
How is repentance known ?
By its deeds.. It brings forth fruits of repentance ,there is a noted clear change in behavioural action .
Not just a ceasing of bad fruit.
But a bearing forth of good fruit.

The son who says “I will go“ (lip service) but does not go like the branch that stopped bearing bad but then became barren ...a branch destined to be cut off and cast into the flames.
- the parable of the talents is also about this.to take what is given (salvation)and mutiply it..failure to do so is met by horrfying rebuke “you wicked and slothful servant” .

The parable of the 4 soils..is so about fruit ..showing what hinders it.

Jesus spoke these things.
He is the word the father is speaking out.
These are the words of life..
We must re read them as such and see both the amazing hope and the dire warning.
For if we do not do his words
We become self deceived.
He himself said so.